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Invisibledr_gonz
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,654
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    #12958086 - 07/26/10 08:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

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Offlineg00ru
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: dr_gonz]
    #12958139 - 07/26/10 08:33 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

most christians don't even really know what Christ is, I feel like.

They know who Jesus is, but have no idea of christ consciousness.


Therefor, they don't understand that the second coming could be in an infinity of forms, and whatever christ was referring to could have already happened for all I know.


--------------------
check out my music!
drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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OfflineSimulacra541
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: g00ru]
    #12958526 - 07/26/10 09:29 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yep mainstream Christians do in fact believe that. And when they talk about the Kingdom of Heaven, most people believe it to be the future Heaven, which will come to earth after the second coming and Jesus will be the King and rule from the new temple.

The problem is most Christians seem to have only half the truth. They believe that saying a couple sentences gives them eternal life. And while I'm not the position to say whether they have that or not, I think most people can agree that a lot of Christians act unlike Christ. They believe they have been forgiven but don't believe that the "I" that seeks pride, strife, lust, and all things that create separatnesss was put to death with Christ on the cross. To me that is the Kingdom of Heaven.

There are plenty of Christians who do believe in "Christ consciousness" but wouldn't call it that, they would say thats a new age term. Christ didn't see equality with God something to be grasped, which is what seeking "Christ consciousness" seems to be, grasping at God. When your searching for enlightenment you can always have just a little bit more, like chasing the horizon. Isn't Zen essentially finding out that you were already enlightened and it's just you who thinks you aren't? From my own experiences (not with Zen) it doesn't come if you desire it. That's probably the thing I wrestle with the most. Wanting some sort of experience because everything is so easy and understandable then, but then it becomes about me.

I was reading a book by the pastor of that church in south Korea with 830,000 members and he was saying the reason in the west for so many people's interest in Zen and eastern mysticism is the Church has failed at showing people that there's any spiritual life in Christianity. I think that's pretty accurate especially when looking at the Catholic and more orthodox churches.


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Invisibledr_gonz
Registered: 08/18/03
Posts: 44,654
. [Re: Simulacra541]
    #12958570 - 07/26/10 09:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

.


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: dr_gonz]
    #12960278 - 07/27/10 07:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, and so do Muslims. Protestants believe a lot of things, but the traditional Catholic belief is that this world will be transformed into a new earth, and everyone will be physically resurrected from the dead in order to be judged.


--------------------
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OfflineBoozerguyzer
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: blewmeanie]
    #12960495 - 07/27/10 08:58 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

well, the sun comes back to its initial height in the sky after the winter solstice every year so...yea, tho it's funny that so few people realize they're part of a solar/saturnal cult that condemns astrology and idolatry lol.  If you wanna know the message of christ just look up at the brightest fucking thing out there during the day-the sun.  It is burning, loving, nourishing even tho to do so will lead to its eventual death.  The sun loves indiscriminately and without question to all that will come out from the darkness and soak in its radiance.  It descends into the "dark" by being viewed as lower in the sky while traveling through the dark/feminine signs of the zodiac during the winter but sure enough, it is reborn every year and rises to its glory in the sky.  People need more astronomy methinks.  Now as far as some kind of worldly event to coincide with those of the sky, which I believe in, we'll have to see, but it's rather silly to limit it to this one bearded white dude that'll be back to judge everyone.


--------------------
"There was a time when I could not find, the spirit of God BEYOND the mind.  In retrospect the intellect is blind, it makes me think that I'm, the reason for all that's mine, even this rhyme I'm inclined to believe is from me, instead of being received. This is how we're deceived.  How am I more than dust? when it's your love that animates us?  Forever I will trust. Your love is better than lust. You. Live. Forever In Us." KRS ONE


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Boozerguyzer]
    #12960600 - 07/27/10 09:35 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

There are literally billions of belief systems out there. Early sun worship was based in fear from what I've read and the father of all our religions.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Icelander]
    #12962159 - 07/27/10 03:46 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

It is burning, loving, nourishing even tho to do so will lead to its eventual death.  The sun loves indiscriminately and without question to all that will come out from the darkness and soak in its radiance.




Except that its radiations can give skin cancer. Loving skin cancer. :hippie:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineHoloverse
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #12962349 - 07/27/10 04:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

It is burning, loving, nourishing even tho to do so will lead to its eventual death.  The sun loves indiscriminately and without question to all that will come out from the darkness and soak in its radiance.




Except that its radiations can give skin cancer. Loving skin cancer. :hippie:




BUT....Only to white people without melanin!  :smirk:
Or so the "original black christians/egyptians" say.

They use that cancer theory as to why blacks are the original race, and whites are a mutant/hybrid race between humanoid-aliens/pigs that dont belong on the planet.

Because how can whites really be humans, when they can't even handle the light of God in the sky.  lol

I am white, btw.....lol


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Holoverse]
    #12962417 - 07/27/10 04:32 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

So god is a douche that created white people to give them cancer. Well, if you think about it, that is a very accurate description of the Christian god. :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineHoloverse
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #12962550 - 07/27/10 05:02 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
So god is a douche that created white people to give them cancer. Well, if you think about it, that is a very accurate description of the Christian god. :lol:




Sounds about right. :grin:

Heres a list of some more sick shit YHWH commands of us....

• Slaughter Non-believers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) (Exodus 22:19 ) (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
• Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
• Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9)
• Death for Cursing Parents / Being disobendient (Proverbs 20:20) (Deuteronomy 21:18)
• Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15)
• Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
• Mass Murder of children, women, babies and animals (Samuel 15:2-3)
• Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15)
• Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17)
• Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
• Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27)
• Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Theres no possible way I would EVER worship this sick son of a bitch.
I really, really do not understand how Christians talk themselves into this BS.

Christianity is the furthest thing from spirituality there has ever been.


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OfflineBoozerguyzer
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Holoverse]
    #12964903 - 07/28/10 12:27 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

lol yea it's pretty fuggin sick...just shows you how any ideology in the wrong hands can become such a nasty force.  Take our gods "Capitalism" and "democracy," and look at the shit we justify in their name.  People need to learn to think for themselves, methinks.  it's ALL idolatry


--------------------
"There was a time when I could not find, the spirit of God BEYOND the mind.  In retrospect the intellect is blind, it makes me think that I'm, the reason for all that's mine, even this rhyme I'm inclined to believe is from me, instead of being received. This is how we're deceived.  How am I more than dust? when it's your love that animates us?  Forever I will trust. Your love is better than lust. You. Live. Forever In Us." KRS ONE


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Holoverse]
    #12964936 - 07/28/10 12:37 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Holoverse said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
So god is a douche that created white people to give them cancer. Well, if you think about it, that is a very accurate description of the Christian god. :lol:




Sounds about right. :grin:

Heres a list of some more sick shit YHWH commands of us....

• Slaughter Non-believers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) (Exodus 22:19 ) (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
• Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
• Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9)
• Death for Cursing Parents / Being disobendient (Proverbs 20:20) (Deuteronomy 21:18)
• Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15)
• Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
• Mass Murder of children, women, babies and animals (Samuel 15:2-3)
• Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15)
• Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17)
• Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
• Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27)
• Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12)

Theres no possible way I would EVER worship this sick son of a bitch.
I really, really do not understand how Christians talk themselves into this BS.

Christianity is the furthest thing from spirituality there has ever been.



Those were all extremely useful beliefs and practices for the time. After all, we're still around as a living culture after how many thousands of years.... :jewbot: Unless I'm mistake it's the oldest tribal culture to be in continual existence in the entire world.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code


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OfflineHoloverse
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: blewmeanie]
    #12965094 - 07/28/10 01:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Unless I'm mistake it's the oldest tribal culture to be in continual existence in the entire world.




Uh, I think youre mistaken there.
What about the Aboriginals of Australia, Peru, Siberia.
Im pretty sure there cultures were untouched, for over 20,000 years.
Alot longer than Christianity.


--------------------
z -> z*z + c  = GOD

“Your denial is beneath you, and thanks to the use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you.”

MUSHROOMS ARE IN SYMBIOTIC EVOLUTION WITH HUMANS.
JUST LIKE ORCHIDS MIMIC THE BEES THAT POLLINATE THEM, MUSHROOMS MIMIC VARIOUS HUMAN ANATOMY.  THEY ARE OUR EVOLUTIONARY BIRTHRIGHT!! 



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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Holoverse]
    #12965377 - 07/28/10 05:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Holoverse said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
So god is a douche that created white people to give them cancer. Well, if you think about it, that is a very accurate description of the Christian god. :lol:




Sounds about right. :grin:

Heres a list of some more sick shit YHWH commands of us....

• Slaughter Non-believers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) (Exodus 22:19 ) (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
• Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
• Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9)
• Death for Cursing Parents / Being disobendient (Proverbs 20:20) (Deuteronomy 21:18)
• Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15)
• Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
• Mass Murder of children, women, babies and animals (Samuel 15:2-3)
• Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15)
• Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17)
• Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
• Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27)
• Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12)

There's no possible way I would EVER worship this sick son of a bitch.
I really, really do not understand how Christians talk themselves into this BS.

Christianity is the furthest thing from spirituality there has ever been.



All ur quotes are from the Jewish Torah, the old Testament.
Christ came to make a change exactly with (most of) these statements.
That's the New Law, the New Testament, what differs Christs from Jews.
The Jews still wait for the ('second coming') of the(ir) messiahs.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: BlueCoyote] * 1
    #12965410 - 07/28/10 06:11 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

their mess(iahs).




Fixed. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Holoverse]
    #12965501 - 07/28/10 07:08 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Holoverse said:
Quote:

blewmeanie said:
Unless I'm mistake it's the oldest tribal culture to be in continual existence in the entire world.




Uh, I think youre mistaken there.
What about the Aboriginals of Australia, Peru, Siberia.
Im pretty sure there cultures were untouched, for over 20,000 years.
Alot longer than Christianity.



Their cultures aren't still in tact...and who said anything about christianity? :confused:


--------------------
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OfflineHoloverse
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #12965835 - 07/28/10 09:21 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Quote:

Holoverse said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
So god is a douche that created white people to give them cancer. Well, if you think about it, that is a very accurate description of the Christian god. :lol:




Sounds about right. :grin:

Heres a list of some more sick shit YHWH commands of us....

• Slaughter Non-believers (2 Chronicles 15:12-13) (Exodus 22:19 ) (Deuteronomy 13:7-12)
• Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
• Death for Fornication (Leviticus 21:9)
• Death for Cursing Parents / Being disobendient (Proverbs 20:20) (Deuteronomy 21:18)
• Death for Hitting Dad (Exodus 21:15)
• Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
• Mass Murder of children, women, babies and animals (Samuel 15:2-3)
• Kill People for Working on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15)
• Kill Witches (Exodus 22:17)
• Kill Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13)
• Kill Fortunetellers (Leviticus 20:27)
• Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests (Deuteronomy 17:12)

There's no possible way I would EVER worship this sick son of a bitch.
I really, really do not understand how Christians talk themselves into this BS.

Christianity is the furthest thing from spirituality there has ever been.



All ur quotes are from the Jewish Torah, the old Testament.
Christ came to make a change exactly with (most of) these statements.
That's the New Law, the New Testament, what differs Christs from Jews.
The Jews still wait for the ('second coming') of the(ir) messiahs.




So.......doesn't change the fact that YHWH is the father God of that book, and all these things, he told us to do.

So youre saying when Christ came, God suddenly became unwrathful and nice???  Uhhh...Revelations???

Sure Christ is nice and he showed us a good way of living, but in the end Christians still believe in the wrath of God, Heaven and Hell as a place, Satan, and the judgement of man in a final hour.
A truly enlightened person, can see through all of that.

So even though the New Testament is the new way, YHWH still sounds like a douche in that one too. 
And yes, I've read the whole bible, so Im not just throwing out wild allegations here.  There are a few morsels of spiritual truth in the bible though.

But give me the Tao Te Ching, Gnostic Gospels or Baghavad Gita over that book anyday.


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Offlinepsilyguy
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Holoverse]
    #12969737 - 07/28/10 11:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

if the second coming of Christ was real, then the devil would be real, and i would be able to make a deal with the devil, which i can't...


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: psilyguy]
    #12969895 - 07/28/10 11:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Everyone knows religion is just an accepted form of making a total mockery of yourself.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: dr_gonz]
    #12970743 - 07/29/10 07:48 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I just received a weekly newsletter from the world's current authority on demythologizing Christ. I met him last year, we bowed to each other, and he said something positive about Gnostics. I'm planning on seeing him again this year on more than one occasion, despite his fees! I have read a half dozen of Spong's books. He helped me heal a rift between reason and faith.


John, via the Internet, writes:
For some time now, I have been reading your weekly essays and I have read many of your books. Your understanding of the Bible and your insight into it are remarkable. I am challenged by your thoughts. However, I read a lot about what you no longer believe, but what do you believe? Regarding Jesus, I would like to see, in a page or less, what your basic belief really is. Do you believe in any of the basic doctrines that we have been taught since childhood?

Dear John,
The way you phrase your question is a familiar one that I have heard many times. I do not, however, believe I can answer it without unpacking it. It is a regular criticism made by fundamentalists and the issue is not that I have staked out a new position, but that it is not consistent with what they were taught and so they hear only the negativity. For example, I have written a 300-page book on the birth narratives of the New Testament (Born of a Woman) that reveals quite clearly that I do not believe that these stories of stars, angels, wise men, shepherds and virgin mothers are literal. Yes, I can say that in one page. The bulk of the book is, however, an analysis of what these stories meant, why they were formed, what their background sources were and what the message is that we must be prepared to hear in these stories. About 95% of this book is an attempt to say what the birth stories of Jesus are really about. Yet, I still hear people like you say to me "you don't believe in the Virgin Birth, but you never say what you do believe." I do not plead guilty to that charge. I believe that is an expression of something present in the threatened defensiveness of my would-be critic that he or she cannot admit. I want to say: "Just what part of my elaborate explanation are you incapable of grasping?"
The same thing is true about the resurrection. I have written a 350-page book (Resurrection: Myth or Reality) on what I think is behind the Easter narratives. I do not think these narratives have anything to do with a resuscitated physical body. When Fundamentalists cannot hear that, they only hear a challenge to their own limited belief system and so they experience it as negative. That is when I get a letter from them asking me to state in one page or less what "I do believe."
You ask specifically about Jesus. I respond that in my book, Jesus for the Non-Religious, I spelled out in intimate detail what I believe about Jesus and what the Jesus story is about. I went into the miracle stories, the differences in the gospel accounts and the role the Hebrew Scriptures played in the developing Jesus story and I concluded that book with the deepest affirmation of why I believe in Jesus and call him Lord that I know how to write. So when you request a statement about what I really believe about Jesus, I have to assume that you haven't, you can't or you won't hear what I have written.
The real problem with fundamentalism is that it narrows the brain to the only options that fundamentalists understand. When any discussion goes beyond those limits, they hear only negativity and so they begin to press for a more positive statement, i.e., one that confirms their childish Sunday school images.
So I do not think your question is really about me so much as it is an insight into where you are. I, therefore, cannot answer it in a way that would be satisfactory to you — so I cannot respond to it.
I recognize that this sounds harsh and that is not what I intend, but I have reached the point where I no longer desire to affirm ignorance as if it is a form of piety and I see no virtue in trying to respond to a question that reveals no ability on the part of the questioner to listen.
– John Shelby Spong


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #12970791 - 07/29/10 08:17 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I don't see that question as so offensive. :shrug:

Anyway I wonder why everything was written supposedly as analogy when it's obvious that it has caused such problems?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: circastes]
    #12970796 - 07/29/10 08:19 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Everyone knows religion is just an accepted form of making a total mockery of yourself.





"Everyone knows"? Is what you are saying actually "you believe" something and so it is true? I'm pretty sure everyone doesn't know that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Holoverse]
    #12971284 - 07/29/10 10:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"So.......doesn't change the fact that YHWH is the father God of that book, and all these things, he told us to do.

So youre saying when Christ came, God suddenly became unwrathful and nice???  Uhhh...Revelations???"
No, g*d is still the same, neither nice or bad.
It's da great prophet Jebuz who said it's not us to do bad things and mix with g*d's' business :smile:
This was not clear before. That's what contrasts the NT against the OT.

"Mine is the revenge"
Rome burned. Babylon will fall.
That's the second coming, when people (are forced to) even honour g*d inside of them.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: dr_gonz]
    #12976543 - 07/30/10 12:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

If you really want to get fundamentalists riled up, bring up the possibility of Christ coming back as a woman.


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Invisibleenthiangenic


Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 527
Re: The Mainstream Christian Idea of "The Second Coming of Christ" [Re: Silversoul]
    #12976642 - 07/30/10 12:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I live in the "Bible Belt" so I've dealt with tons of Christians(so they say) that have some of the most fucked up ideas of the bible and Christ. I'm not a Christian, anymore anyway, I was until I turned 13 and I could see through the bullshit. Christianity is a business, like any other, they need lots of customers to buy their shit so they can make a lot of money to further their business. I've seen churches raise thousands of dollars just to build another church a few miles down the road next to a different denomination's church. Who are they really helping by doing that? I've seen "Christians" harass people because they believed in something other than Christ, they say they are trying to convert heathens. And most frequently, I see "Christians" distort the bible to fit their own ideas and beliefs. The fact is that most "Christians" don't have a clue what's in the bible, they only know how to recite the verses they know and like. "Christians" have only succeeded because they applied such force on the masses...If the fight had been fair, you can bet there would not be so many of them. Arguing with a Christian is a losing battle because their answer to most every question is that God did it, either himself or through man...that's a horrible answer.


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