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My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ * 5
    #26047485 -

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 1 Corinthians 1:21

When I was a young child, being dragged to church, I laughed with the other kids.  We teased and harassed the children who actually took it seriously. 

As a questing teenager, plunging into the world of psychedelic spirituality and mysticism... Christians were again the prime target of mockery.  The small-minded sheep who couldn't think for themselves and question authority.

As an adult, I remember walking down a busy street one day.  A man came up to me and asked if I had heard the truth about Jesus.  Arrogantly I shot back, "I already have the truth," and kept on walking.

Soon after I stood on the roof of my apartment in the city, staring out at all the night lights below me.  I believed I was on the verge of a gnostic enlightenment, a mastering of my own reality, standing above the herd and seeing through all the illusions of material existence.

And finally, a couple years later sitting comfortably in my bedroom, I just gave up and surrendered to the simple truth.  I was nothing but a wretched human like everyone else.. a sinner in need of forgiveness from God.  I knew I had known all along that God was real, and that I had been denying him so that I could live life my way.

I had mocked and ridiculed Christianity for most of my life, never opened a Bible, and here I was reading it for the first time... reading about how Jesus Christ sacrificed himself on the cross to pay for our sins, and as my tears fell, the truth washed over me in an instant, and I believed, and I was saved.  I could feel Jesus standing right next to me and I knew he was real.

And now like that man on the street many years ago, I am the fool preaching to you now. 

You don't need to join a church to find it.  The truth is right there in your room as you read this.  Jesus stands at the door knocking, waiting for you to invite him into your heart.



Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in... - Revelations 3:20


If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26047822 -

saved7 said:
reading about how Jesus Christ sacrificed himself on the cross to pay for our sins


Can you explain how nailing someone up equals a plan of salvation?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26047829 -

It's a metaphor, right? We are fixed to our cross of shameful doings?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26047886 -

Oh. I get it. We are nailed to our doings until we know it's not what we want and we seek forgiveness.

That's the Plan of Salvation.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26047942 -

wrong forum

belongs here

Spirituality & Mysticism

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26047944 -

Buster_Brown said:
saved7 said:
reading about how Jesus Christ sacrificed himself on the cross to pay for our sins


Can you explain how nailing someone up equals a plan of salvation?


Jesus Christ, stripped and bloody and nailed to a cross, is the picture of what we deserve.

Take a look around the world, or just look in the mirror.  We deserve to die in our sins.  We are selfish, evil, fallen, in need of forgiveness from our creator.  Deep down we all know this.

Jesus on the cross is a picture of salvation because He paid for all of that.  God, the creator of the whole universe, sacrificed his own Son, for you and me. 

If we only believe in that sacrifice, then we are covered by that same blood of Jesus. 

Then finally in the end, when we stand before God and God looks at us... 

He will not see our lifetime of selfish thoughts and wicked deeds, he will see the blood of Jesus which washes away all sin.

If you truly want to be forgiven, then you can receive the truth this instant.  You don't need to take my word for it.  Jesus is right there at the door, knocking....


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ (moved) [Re: saved7]
    #26047970 -

This thread was moved from Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology.

Reason:
Definitely belongs here.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 4
    #26049311 -

saved7 said:
Jesus on the cross is a picture of salvation because He paid for all of that.  God, the creator of the whole universe, sacrificed his own Son, for you and me. 



'Jesus' is not the Son.

Christ is the son, which is all.

Everyone pays for everything, because that's what everyone is.

The 'son' is the entire, aware manifest in the universe - the broken part in exile, from divine unity.

Jesus is a flesh and blood, individual iteration of Christ (as everyone is at their root) relating a principle to the Layman who is conditioned to see all as separate.

Through him, Christ is conveyed, to counteract the ego which projects everything outside of itself, consequently disregarding the self.

At the heart, Christ is 'knocking at the door', for that's what everyone is beyond the projective delusion.

The point conveyed is that the individual body is perishable and the spirit - eternal.

Nothing is about Jesus Christ.

It's about you and the next person who is you.

That is the message. :thumbup:

Edited by Duncan Rowhl (06/13/19 01:51 AM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #26049678 -

Duncan Rowhl said:
'Jesus' is not the Son.

Christ is the son, which is all.

Everyone pays for everything, because that's what everyone is.

The 'son' is the entire, aware manifest in the universe - the broken part in exile, from divine unity.

Jesus is a flesh and blood, individual iteration of Christ (as everyone is at their root) relating a principle to the Layman who is conditioned to see all as separate.

Through him, Christ is conveyed, to counteract the ego which projects everything outside of itself, consequently disregarding the self.

At the heart, Christ is 'knocking at the door', for that's what everyone is beyond the projective delusion.

The point conveyed is that the individual body is perishable and the spirit - eternal.

Nothing is about Jesus Christ.

It's about you and the next person who is you.

That is the message. :thumbup:



The very first lie ever told was that man could "Be like God" if only he would open his eyes and take the wisdom for himself.

I used to believe this myself before I was saved by Jesus.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 2
    #26049990 -

Why would Christ tell you to be perfect if it were not possible?

He said to be perfect, and he said it was easy -- his yoke is light.

Don't say he was lying. :smile:


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: life is good] * 1
    #26050587 -

life is good said:
Why would Christ tell you to be perfect if it were not possible?

He said to be perfect, and he said it was easy -- his yoke is light.

Don't say he was lying. :smile:


His yoke is light because once you have Jesus, the worries and fears of the world melt away.  Though worldly troubles still come after you every day, and may even increase, they nolonger have any power over you because you now belong to Jesus. And your old self lies dead at the foot of the cross.

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. - John 16:33

Christians are nowhere near perfect.  We are free in Christ, yet we still let ourselves become distracted by the world.  We stumble off the path. But when we look back up at the cross before us, our suffering again turns to joy.  The burden of Jesus Christ truly is light.  It is a beautiful thing to be even the lowliest servant of God.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 4
    #26050603 -

If Christianity is the one true religion, then why? Why would God decide to create all of these different religions, and traditions, if only one of them were true?


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 3
    #26050944 -

saved7 said:
Duncan Rowhl said:
'Jesus' is not the Son.

Christ is the son, which is all.

Everyone pays for everything, because that's what everyone is.

The 'son' is the entire, aware manifest in the universe - the broken part in exile, from divine unity.

Jesus is a flesh and blood, individual iteration of Christ (as everyone is at their root) relating a principle to the Layman who is conditioned to see all as separate.

Through him, Christ is conveyed, to counteract the ego which projects everything outside of itself, consequently disregarding the self.

At the heart, Christ is 'knocking at the door', for that's what everyone is beyond the projective delusion.

The point conveyed is that the individual body is perishable and the spirit - eternal.

Nothing is about Jesus Christ.

It's about you and the next person who is you.

That is the message. :thumbup:



The very first lie ever told was that man could "Be like God" if only he would open his eyes and take the wisdom for himself.

I used to believe this myself before I was saved by Jesus.


It's imperative to understand the difference between mere man and united spirit - 'Jesus' and the son.

We are 'saved' by the truth of ourselves.

To find Christ within is the revelation.  The Logos.  That which is free of individual delusion.

All is you.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #26051623 -

Duncan Rowhl said:
It's imperative to understand the difference between mere man and united spirit - 'Jesus' and the son.

We are 'saved' by the truth of ourselves.

To find Christ within is the revelation.  The Logos.  That which is free of individual delusion.

All is you.


Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
- John 14:6


Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

...For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

- 2nd Timothy


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26052482 -

'Christ'.


The Logos.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 3
    #26052546 -

Quote:
The very first lie ever told was that man could "Be like God" if only he would open his eyes and take the wisdom for himself.

I used to believe this myself before I was saved by Jesus.


"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love."
Ephesians 4:11-16

It sounds here like the Bible is telling us that we are to work to become as Christ - to grow up, to stop being children, and to "grow into him."

I have had a few Christians explain to me that other spiritual paths preach that you can become "a god" and that that is dangerous. But, in my own experience, that's not what most other traditions say. They say, you need to try and emulate the attributes of God, to become pure, and loving and kind and compassionate, free from the clutches of ego and selfish desire (so they can no longer be "tossed to and fro"). Then you will be able know God better, because you have become like Him, to awaken the essence of God within you. It is not that you become "a god", this separate thing with its own ego etc, it's the recognition that there is no real separation between you and God. God lives in you.  That is the essence of all spiritual paths.

"But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit."
1 Corinthians 6:17


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady] * 1
    #26053076 -

:whathesaid::congrats:

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.1 Corinthians 13

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?1 Corinthians 3

10 O continue thy lovingkindness unto them that know thee; and thy righteousness to the upright in heart.
9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.Psalm 36

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26053521 -

saved7 said:
Duncan Rowhl said:
'Jesus' is not the Son.

Christ is the son, which is all.

Everyone pays for everything, because that's what everyone is.

The 'son' is the entire, aware manifest in the universe - the broken part in exile, from divine unity.

Jesus is a flesh and blood, individual iteration of Christ (as everyone is at their root) relating a principle to the Layman who is conditioned to see all as separate.

Through him, Christ is conveyed, to counteract the ego which projects everything outside of itself, consequently disregarding the self.

At the heart, Christ is 'knocking at the door', for that's what everyone is beyond the projective delusion.

The point conveyed is that the individual body is perishable and the spirit - eternal.

Nothing is about Jesus Christ.

It's about you and the next person who is you.

That is the message. :thumbup:



The very first lie ever told was that man could "Be like God" if only he would open his eyes and take the wisdom for himself.

I used to believe this myself before I was saved by Jesus.


Genesis 1:26 "God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

Psalm 82:6-7 " I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

We are indeed like God, though we are not God, but we are gods who are mortal. It is there in scripture.


--------------------
Im not loved because im worthy, Im loved because youre good - Matthew West (Good)

You never know, when and where the shrooms will grow.

Subaeruginosa Guide

Tinned Fish and Seafood Ratings

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady]
    #26053526 -

PocketLady said:
Quote:
The very first lie ever told was that man could "Be like God" if only he would open his eyes and take the wisdom for himself.

I used to believe this myself before I was saved by Jesus.


"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love."
Ephesians 4:11-16

It sounds here like the Bible is telling us that we are to work to become as Christ - to grow up, to stop being children, and to "grow into him."




Christians are indeed to work, to take up our cross and follow Christ every day.

Look who is being addressed in the beginning of the verses you've quoted: "the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry..."

These are all people who have already accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.  They work because they have received Christ.  They do not work to get to Christ on their own.  All scripture affirms this.

Until you've accepted Jesus, then all your spiritual works are nothing but dirty rags to God.

So have you accepted him?  Have you truly asked God for forgiveness and invited Jesus Christ into your heart?



PocketLady said:
I have had a few Christians explain to me that other spiritual paths preach that you can become "a god" and that that is dangerous. But, in my own experience, that's not what most other traditions say. They say, you need to try and emulate the attributes of God, to become pure, and loving and kind and compassionate, free from the clutches of ego and selfish desire (so they can no longer be "tossed to and fro"). Then you will be able know God better, because you have become like Him, to awaken the essence of God within you. It is not that you become "a god", this separate thing with its own ego etc, it's the recognition that there is no real separation between you and God. God lives in you.  That is the essence of all spiritual paths.


Just the same, it is a false doctrine that man can reconnect to the divine on his own terms, through his own works. 

PocketLady said:
"But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit."
1 Corinthians 6:17



And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
- 1 Corinthians 6:11

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
- 1 Corintians 6:20

People want to work and strive towards "Christ Consciousness" because it keeps them in charge of their reality.

Real salvation by Jesus Christ is a free gift, yet people reject it because instinctively they know they will belong to the one who saved them. 

It's this hard-heartedness that keeps people from asking for forgiveness.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26053530 -

Saved7, I think you should look into what Duncan says, more.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26053568 -

Asante said:
Saved7, I think you should look into what Duncan says, more.


:whathesaid: :thumbup::cool:

saved7 said:
Real salvation by Jesus Christ is a free gift, yet people reject it because instinctively they know they will belong to the one who saved them.


I dont mind being belonged, Yet the so called majority of pastors, teachers - preach the word for money(tithes) living by the bible belt(hypocracy) instead of being free as christ commanded on to them. On the other hand they shouldnt be called teachers or pastors for we are all equally sisters/brothers.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.Matthew 24
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.Romans 16
19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Philippians 3
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.2 Corinthians 11

Eg in this thread Its for their for own dissolution. When the right time comes. (Mark 3:26)

Eg. Preaching thy word eg. just as the bornagain do, that once saved is always save by accepting Jesus Christ, aint true. And for sure most of the major christian denominations are still gentiles.

I admire youve mention you rejected the offer in the first place and later searched the scriptures first and foremost, Hope you can view the wider picture of it.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.1 John 2

Edited by pacmanbreed (06/15/19 06:49 AM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: OOISI] * 1
    #26053622 -

OOISI said:
Genesis 1:26 "God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

Psalm 82:6-7 " I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."

We are indeed like God, though we are not God, but we are gods who are mortal. It is there in scripture.


Humans do have a special connection to God.  We ignore Him and exalt ourselves, we chases after our own lusts, roll around in our own sin and selfishness like pigs in the muck, and yet God still loves us.  God loved us enough to send his own son into this evil world and die for us.  Jesus was the final sacrifice to pay for our sins.    It is the one true way God has given us to return back to him... if only we reach out and accept it.


Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
- John 14:6

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
- 2 Corinthians 4:4


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #26053642 -

pacmanbreed said:
:whathesaid::congrats:

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.1 Corinthians 13

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?1 Corinthians 3

10 O continue thy lovingkindness unto them that know thee; and thy righteousness to the upright in heart.
9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.Psalm 36



For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
- 2 Corinthians 4:6

But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
- 2 Timonty 1:10

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
- 1 John 1:7

There is no works, no knowledge, no special "consciousness", nothing spiritual that man can pursue to get back into the grace of God.

It is the blood, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross which covers our sins. 

This truth is freely available to anyone who wants it.  Jesus Christ is right there knocking at your door...  You can know him yourself, and no longer have to question.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #26053802 -

pacmanbreed said:
I dont mind being belonged, Yet the so called majority of pastors, teachers - preach the word for money(tithes) living by the bible belt(hypocracy) instead of being free as christ commanded on to them.


Jesus rebuked many of the 'church leaders' of his time.  Even to the point of physically driving priests out of the temple with a whip.

To be saved, we don't need to join a church, or be anointed by priests, or go through any other organized religious systems or rituals.

No thing on this earth stands before you and Jesus Christ.  He is right there at the door waiting for anyone to invite Him in.

There will always be corrupt men claiming to speak for God, but we cannot use that as an excuse to keep ourselves in darkness. 

When we stand before God, we won't be able to point at corrupt church leaders as an excuse for rejecting the salvation that was freely offered us.

pacmanbreed said:
On the other hand they shouldnt be called teachers or pastors for we are all equally sisters/brothers.


We are all equal in our need of Jesus.  Both the wise and the foolish are made like babies, born again at the foot of the cross.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Asante]
    #26053836 -

Asante said:
Saved7, I think you should look into what Duncan says, more.


I've been down that path.  It is man seeking divinity or a return to the divine source through his own wisdom.  It's a stumblingblock to the truth.

Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
- 1 Corinthians 3:18-19

The more we believe we can save ourselves through our own spiritual evolution or gnosis, the more our hearts are hardened to the free gift of salvation extended to all in Jesus.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 3
    #26053950 -

Saved7, we are clearly walking different paths here. But I love your intention, to help people. That is the goal of every authentic spiritual path. It's not to have knowledge or wisdom, and in fact, it's impossible to succeed if those are your goals, because that doesn't bring you closer to God, it drives you further into ego, and people do get lost here for sure. The point of every authentic spiritual path is to become completely selfless, filled with divine spirit, to lose all importance of 'self' so that serving and helping others becomes the only reason you live.

All roads really do lead to the same place, although they have their own way of going about it. For example, in Eastern traditions, they teach meditation and yoga. Why? Well, mostly, its so that people can learn to have awareness of their own thoughts. It's really so that a person can remain in prayer, asking to be purified, at all times, throughout the whole day, never once falling into the "devil's" temptations or delusions at all, because they are instantly seen for what they are, literally as soon as they appear in the mind. But most Christians reject meditation, because somehow it is 'evil', when in fact, quite the opposite it is true.

It sounds like you've had some really powerful spiritual experiences which have given you your faith. That is what it's all about, the actual experience. Anything else, is just blind belief in something from this human world that could easily have been tainted by man's ego.

Much love to you :heart:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26054229 -

saved7 said:
Humans do have a special connection to God.  We ignore Him and exalt ourselves, we chases after our own lusts, roll around in our own sin and selfishness like pigs in the muck, and yet God still loves us.  God loved us enough to send his own son into this evil world and die for us.  Jesus was the final sacrifice to pay for our sins. It is the one true way God has given us to return back to him... if only we reach out and accept it.


Amen. That we should all the time be wary of ourselves This mirrors my old threads.

PocketLady said:
It sounds like you've had some really powerful spiritual experiences which have given you your faith. That is what it's all about, the actual experience. Anything else, is just blind belief in something from this human world that could easily have been tainted by man's ego.

Much love to you :heart:


:whathesaid: indeed he had experience Christ in this era of spiritual famine.. Much love brother :heart::heart:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: pacmanbreed]
    #26055265 -

Neither shall they say, See here! or, see there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you.  Luke 17:21


Remember Jesus said "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.  John 14:12


We are all gods living a human experience thru the veil of forgetfulness
of who we really are.

Allowance, acceptance, non judgement, non resistance, forgiveness, compassion, love & peace are the keys to the kingdom.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: theozaki]
    #26055284 -

The Gnostic Gospel Of Thomas is entirely devoted to the sayings of Christ.

The esoteric meanings of these spoken words of Jesus speaks of the inner truth of the spark of the divine, of the God within all of us and our interconnection.

We are immortal spiritual beings having a temporary human experience.

Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brothers, you have done it to me.
Mathew 25:40

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady]
    #26057071 -

PocketLady said:
Saved7, we are clearly walking different paths here. But I love your intention, to help people. That is the goal of every authentic spiritual path. It's not to have knowledge or wisdom, and in fact, it's impossible to succeed if those are your goals, because that doesn't bring you closer to God, it drives you further into ego, and people do get lost here for sure. The point of every authentic spiritual path is to become completely selfless, filled with divine spirit, to lose all importance of 'self' so that serving and helping others becomes the only reason you live.


I don't know anything more egotistical than the idea that man can become divine by his own will and his own works (practicing "selfless-ness") ... and what is that divine spirit?  Where does it come from?  What truth does it have?  How many claim to be "selfless" and are still secretly trapped in their lusts and desires?

The Holy Spirit I am witness of is from God and Jesus Christ, the way the truth and the life, the only true light to be found in a world of false enlightenment.  It is the real truth that can be freely received by anyone, not by your own works, but by the grace of God, the creator of the universe.

The truth is black and white.  The truth divides.  The truth makes people angry.  Where is the truth in 'finding your own path' ?  There is no truth in the wisdom of this world.  We are simply attracted to these doctrines because they keep us in the captain seat, with no judge ruling over us.


PocketLady said:
All roads really do lead to the same place, although they have their own way of going about it.


All roads in this fallen world do lead to the same place which is death and destruction.  And the grave will swallow us all up, both the wise and the foolish.

But Jesus defeated death.  He did all the work for us.  He died bloody on a cross to pay for our sins, our evil, selfish, rebellious natures. 

And God raised him back from the dead, just as we will be saved, if we only accept the free gift, the payment that has already been made.  Nothing of ourselves, but only by the grace of God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
- John 14:6


PocketLady said:
For example, in Eastern traditions, they teach meditation and yoga. Why? Well, mostly, its so that people can learn to have awareness of their own thoughts. It's really so that a person can remain in prayer, asking to be purified, at all times, throughout the whole day, never once falling into the "devil's" temptations or delusions at all, because they are instantly seen for what they are, literally as soon as they appear in the mind. But most Christians reject meditation, because somehow it is 'evil', when in fact, quite the opposite it is true.

It sounds like you've had some really powerful spiritual experiences which have given you your faith. That is what it's all about, the actual experience. Anything else, is just blind belief in something from this human world that could easily have been tainted by man's ego.



So then Man's experience is our god to chase after?  And we cannot be blindly led astray by such spiritual experiences? 

It is interesting how things get flipped upside down from what they really are.

The Christian warns that man has no power, and only by the grace of God are we saved... and is accused of being tainted by "ego"...
while countless world mystics claiming divinity by their own power are portrayed as "selfless, egoless"...

It's like how the world's favorite meme is "find your own truth"... It's a self-refuting doctrine, yet it is held up as high wisdom by the world because it lets men play gods.


Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
- Isaiah 5:20-21


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 2
    #26057611 -

I honestly don't know any genuine 'mystics' who claim divinity by their own power. In fact, every single spiritual teacher (who I consider to be genuine) says the same thing. "I am nothing but a conduit for the divine. Without God, I am nothing."

I think you may be confusing some of the more recent New Age ego-traps, people who are looking for power, to have access to magic etc, over those who have genuinely asked to be purified so much, that God has scrubbed their karma [sins] clean, and now, they work only to be of service to others. Off the top of my head, a few (some still living on Earth, some not) include Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev, Paramahansa Yogananda, Gautama Buddha, Ramana Maharshi, Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dalai Lama...The list could go on. Needless to say, the vast majority of human beings (even those who are devoted to a spiritual path or religion) are still on the path to what you would probably call 'righteousness'. They have not achieved it yet, and as a result, they get lead astray. You have even said yourself, that Christians themselves are not perfect. If you can overlook groups of Christians that perform all sorts of atrocities in God's name, then surely you must understand that there are people who get off track in other spiritual traditions too, and that they should not be taken as the best example of that spiritual system.

Every spiritual teaching that I have worked with, every teacher, they all say the same thing. That is, only God can purify you, but YOU have to ask. The more you ask, the more you turn away from worldly desires, the quicker God purifies you, because He sees that you mean business, and actually want to be free from selflishness. Meditation is done for the exact same reason you pray everyday - To tell God you see the error of your ways, and to ask for His forgiveness, and to be freed from sin. It's just put in other words. Instead of 'sin', it's called 'karma'. The idea of 'becoming one with God', or 'awaking divinity within' is that all of the karma [or sin] has to be removed in order for God's light to be able to shine fully through you. When you remove "self", "selfishness" whatever you want to call it, the "selfless" light of the Creator is there, and you become so perfectly loving, kind, and compassionate, that all you want to do is to help others and work for the benefit of all sentient beings. I find it hard to understand that anyone could think this goal is a bad thing? Sure, not many people have achieved this in the current time, but there are enough that we can see it's possible.

“You do not have to struggle to reach God, but you do have to struggle to tear away the self-created veil that hides him from you.” - Parmahansa Yogananda

Also, to clarify, I am not talking about 'finding your own path'. It's true, even spiritual experiences can be misleading whilst we are still in the clutches of the ego [Satan] (but I trust them a little more than I trust someone else's interpretation of a book), but there are some things that one can intuitively lean towards being true, like your experiences with Jesus. You know in you heart that that was a true experience, that you were touched by the divine. 

My personal stance is that you need a teacher, a guide, or someone to help you find your way. Books can be misinterpreted, but someone who has already been there can help you. That was Christ. He came to teach people. But what tends to happen, after the Teacher leaves this world, is that things get written down, and people misinterpret them, their own egos get in the way, hidden agendas become rife within organisations and before you know it, the true teachings are lost. Which is why, every so often, God sends a physical messenger down to Earth in the form of an authentic spiritual teacher, to remind us, to bring back the pure truth, uncorrupted by humanity. He sends these teachers to all corners of the Earth, that all human beings have a chance to be 'saved', not just those living in select geographical locations.

Quote:
The truth is black and white.  The truth divides.  The truth makes people angry.


Actually no, I don't think this is the case personally. The truth is loving. Truth is kind. The truth brings people together and promotes peace. The truth is all encompassing. I always found it a good measure to ask myself if the teaching I'm currently following lives up to the values I believe to be 'good'. Does it make sense that God (all loving, all kind) would only bring one messenger down to one area of the world, to one type of culture, so that (especially before technology improved) only a few people could benefit from it? Does it make sense that, even if you devoted your entire life to be loving, to help people and to be free from carnal desires, that because you chose the wrong God, you wouldn't be saved? Doesn't make a shred of sense to me. All religions promote 'loving thy neighbour as thyself.' The problem with the world isn't that there are different religions and spiritual beliefs, the problem is that most people don't aspire to that teaching. :heart:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Edited by PocketLady (06/17/19 08:39 PM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady] * 1
    #26058283 -

PocketLady said:
The truth is loving. Truth is kind. The truth brings people together and promotes peace. The truth is all encompassing.


:whathesaid: :thumbup::thumbup::congrats:

5 The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
6 Certain persons, by swerving from these, have wandered away into vain discussion,
7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,1 Timothy 1


4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant
5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;
6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.
7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.1 Corinthians 13


I love reading your writeups. you both guys are in a good path while in this era of dark knight of the soul and most are in a search, That there will come a time that the Truth will shine upon all.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: pacmanbreed] * 1
    #26058503 -

Beautiful passages :heart:

Honestly, I don’t know much of anything. I’m very blessed to have been guided in this direction, by grace of the Guru :sun: I probably shouldn’t be running my mouth really. Only those who have truly made ‘thine eye single’ can talk with true authority.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady] * 2
    #26058562 -

love is where it is at :smile: :heart: not in however well-intended guilt trips :smile: though there are many paths for many people and all have their benefits in their own ways :sun:


--------------------


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: deff] * 2
    #26058594 -

Quote:
though there are many paths for many people and all have their benefits in their own ways


:heart:

I think God was exceedingly wise, helping different spiritual traditions to arise all over the world, tailored for every individual culture, for different personalities, ultimately giving everyone the best chance to understand and realise their true heritage :smile:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Edited by PocketLady (06/17/19 11:34 PM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady] * 1
    #26058629 -

many schools within a school - electives, personal tutors, after school projects, even night school on the inner planes as we sleep. it is a benevolent system of learning catering to all diverse needs and aspirations and everyone is loved :smile:


--------------------


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady]
    #26059221 -

PocketLady said:
I think you may be confusing some of the more recent New Age ego-traps, people who are looking for power, to have access to magic etc, over those who have genuinely asked to be purified so much, that God has scrubbed their karma [sins] clean, and now, they work only to be of service to others. Off the top of my head, a few (some still living on Earth, some not) include Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev, Paramahansa Yogananda, Gautama Buddha, Ramana Maharshi, Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dalai Lama...The list could go on. Needless to say, the vast majority of human beings (even those who are devoted to a spiritual path or religion) are still on the path to what you would probably call 'righteousness'. They have not achieved it yet, and as a result, they get lead astray.


They are men walking in darkness without the light of Jesus.  And the more they rely on themselves as spiritual navigators, the deeper into darkness they will fall, and the harder their hearts will become to the truth.

PocketLady said:
You have even said yourself, that Christians themselves are not perfect. If you can overlook groups of Christians that perform all sorts of atrocities in God's name, then surely you must understand that there are people who get off track in other spiritual traditions too, and that they should not be taken as the best example of that spiritual system.


This is why we need Jesus so much.  He is the rock that we keep coming back to.  Man will always stumble, wandering after his own lusts, and how much more will we deceive ourselves if we believe we can find our own pathway towards righteousness.  Spirituality without Jesus is a foundation built on quicksand and a playground of self-deception.

PocketLady said:
Every spiritual teaching that I have worked with, every teacher, they all say the same thing. That is, only God can purify you, but YOU have to ask. The more you ask, the more you turn away from worldly desires, the quicker God purifies you, because He sees that you mean business, and actually want to be free from selflishness. Meditation is done for the exact same reason you pray everyday - To tell God you see the error of your ways, and to ask for His forgiveness, and to be freed from sin. It's just put in other words. Instead of 'sin', it's called 'karma'.

The idea of 'becoming one with God', or 'awaking divinity within' is that all of the karma [or sin] has to be removed in order for God's light to be able to shine fully through you. When you remove "self", "selfishness" whatever you want to call it, the "selfless" light of the Creator is there, and you become so perfectly loving, kind, and compassionate, that all you want to do is to help others and work for the benefit of all sentient beings. I find it hard to understand that anyone could think this goal is a bad thing? Sure, not many people have achieved this in the current time, but there are enough that we can see it's possible.

“You do not have to struggle to reach God, but you do have to struggle to tear away the self-created veil that hides him from you.” - Parmahansa Yogananda



And who is your god?  And why is your god hiding from you behind a regimen of supposed self-denial?

My God is right here.  He's surrounded you and every other reader with His Word.  Jesus Christ is right here offering salvation freely to anyone who will accept it.

Jesus did the work on the cross.

And without the cross of Christ, man cannot step one foot closer to God.

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
- Isaiah 64:6

You can either be offended that God has no need of your spiritual workings, or you can accept the free salvation of Jesus Christ right now.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 2
    #26059517 -

My God is the same as your God I would imagine, we just see it a little differently, that's all :smile: God is the Creator of all things, good and evil. My spiritual system says that God is in everyone, and is around us all of the time. It's not that He is hiding, but it is that we, due to our own karmic filters, are not able to directly and continuously perceive Him (we are unconsciously hiding from Him), until these filters are removed. Then we will know Him as residing within us, we will directly perceive God in our hearts, and also see that He resides in all things, that He is all things. I'm not talking about on an intellectual level, I mean actually being able to 'see' it, to 'know' it directly. This is different to just 'believing' that something is true, because a person, or a book, or an organisation says so.

Christ directly perceived God. He and God were One. And that, I think, is our mission too, to be perfect, to be like the teacher, to be love. :heart:

"Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ" - Ephesians 4:15

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matthew 5:48

“It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher …” Matthew 10:25.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: deff] * 1
    #26059519 -

deff said:
many schools within a school - electives, personal tutors, after school projects, even night school on the inner planes as we sleep. it is a benevolent system of learning catering to all diverse needs and aspirations and everyone is loved :smile:


:heart::sun:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady] * 1
    #26060363 -

"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light." Matt. 6:22

"For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light". Matt 11:30

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady]
    #26062208 -

PocketLady said:
My God is the same as your God I would imagine, we just see it a little differently, that's all :smile: God is the Creator of all things, good and evil. My spiritual system says that God is in everyone, and is around us all of the time. It's not that He is hiding, but it is that we, due to our own karmic filters, are not able to directly and continuously perceive Him (we are unconsciously hiding from Him), until these filters are removed. Then we will know Him as residing within us, we will directly perceive God in our hearts, and also see that He resides in all things, that He is all things. I'm not talking about on an intellectual level, I mean actually being able to 'see' it, to 'know' it directly. This is different to just 'believing' that something is true, because a person, or a book, or an organisation says so.


The problem is that you don't want an authority over you.  It's pretty clear that you consider your god to be something you meet on your own terms.  You want all the love and none of the judgment.  Your version of judgment is the self-inflicted pain caused by the ego, or something like that.  But you don't acknowledge the judgment of a God ruling over you.

Therefore, in my opinion, your heart is unrepentent.  You won't accept that there is an ultimate lawgiver and that you've broken his laws.  You can't even identify who your god is, because it's a 'karmic' system you've created for yourself, to work through yourself, on your own terms, with your own understanding in the seat of authority.

It also seems clear to me that you, like so many others, are extremely offended by the idea that a people you might consider small-minded, bigoted, or whatever, (Christians) might actually have the truth.  That the truth has been here in plain sight for millenia, already revealed, waiting to simply be believed.  I was offended by this same thing.  How could all these simple-minded church-goers have the truth already?  Surely the truth must be something more exotic, I thought.

It's that same rebellious nature we have... we don't want the truth revealed to us in a book.  We want it to be something exotic that we discover for ourselves, and therefore have authority over. 

We are simply wretched sinners that do not want to bow down to our Creator.


PocketLady said:
Christ directly perceived God. He and God were One. And that, I think, is our mission too, to be perfect, to be like the teacher, to be love. :heart:

"Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ" - Ephesians 4:15

"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matthew 5:48

“It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher …” Matthew 10:25.


If you trust the Word, then believe what it's telling you.


Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
...In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Ephesians 1


YOU ARE SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS
He died on the cross to pay for your sins.
THIS is what God is telling you to believe.
Salvation is right there on the cross waiting for you.

I pray that whatever spirit is blocking you from the truth be cast out, in Jesus name, Amen.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 3
    #26062258 -

Well, I thank you for your interesting opinion on my own path and on my relationship with God. And I do appreciate your prayer. May it be true for all sentient beings.

In spite of the perceived differences between us, I am really happy you found Christ :heart: Much love to you, and good luck with your path :sun:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26066455 -

I'm glad you've found a way that makes you feel complete.
:heart::thumbup:
May you seek to follow the Christ rather than those who pretend to represent him.


--------------------
Time is nature's way of making sure that everything doesn't happen at once.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: towndaze]
    #26066672 -

Jesus was a mystic who espoused the God [and his 'heights'] within (and above) the "temple" of the body.

that is all. bicker among yourselves.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady] * 2
    #26116528 -

PocketLady in here dropping those bombs! Truly excellent munitions, bravo!


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady]
    #26125383 -

PocketLady said:
I think God was exceedingly wise, helping different spiritual traditions to arise all over the world, tailored for every individual culture, for different personalities, ultimately giving everyone the best chance to understand and realise their true heritage :smile:



It is interesting, Christians today try to explain the glaring differences between the Old and New Testaments by claiming that Old Testament apparent barbarity was all part of God's plan and what was needed for the times. Somehow, that specificity does not include other religions and cultures. :shrug:


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: HagbardCeline] * 1
    #26125713 -

Yeah, it's something that doesn't seem to be unique to just one religion though. Maybe it's an outer symptom of an internal issue. Judging and holding others to standards we don't even hold ourselves to seems to be one of the ego's favourite tricks.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?" Matthew 7:3-4


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

Edited by PocketLady (08/07/19 02:14 PM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #26125727 -

And thanks. I know nothing, but am fortunate enough to have had some great teachers :sun:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.
~ Rumi


The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: PocketLady]
    #26126032 -


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26126442 -

Not to defile your topic but:


Me: "You told me this exact thing would happen 35 years ago! How did my brain become such Swiss cheese that knowledge of the future seeps through?"

God: "Well you are talking with God."

Me: "How did my life become such Swiss cheese that God seeps through?!" :grin:

God: "Now that's a good question. It started when you were wee little, with Faith."


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Asante]
    #26126481 -

Who’s Faith?
Whose faith?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Rorge]
    #26126490 -

According to the big guy:

"Your Faith, [Asante]. You entertained Me as a possibility and here I am."


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Asante]
    #26126495 -

I normally pray to god but when it’s about sexual conquests for some reason I pray to Jesus.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Rorge]
    #26126499 -

Praying to as opposed to talking with?



Quote:
The White Man goes into his church house and talks about Jesus, but the Indian goes into his tipi [eats Peyote] and talks to Jesus.

-Quanah Parker




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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26137764 -

"There have been nearly 3000 Gods so far but only yours actually exists.The others are silly made up nonsense. But not yours. Yours is real."


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"Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and the word ‘happy’ would lose its meaning if it were not balanced by sadness." - Carl Jung

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: broshammy]
    #26138206 -

No other god has the supporting evidence the God of the bible has.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: broshammy]
    #26139881 -

broshammy said:
"There have been nearly 3000 Gods so far but only yours actually exists.The others are silly made up nonsense. But not yours. Yours is real."


This is like saying "there are over 3000 theories for X, therefore another theory must be wrong".. It's a non-argument.

The very fact that humanity is so consumed with the awareness of God should tell you there may be something real behind it.  But it became fashionable to immediately dismiss anything in reality that could not be weighed and measured.  (It's so ironic how non-believers think that the believers are the brainwashed ones)

In my opinion, there is nothing even remotely comparable with the Christian argument for God supported by the Bible.  The truth of Jesus Christ shines forth into all the world.

I think deep-down everyone knows it is the truth, which is why Jesus provokes so much reaction.  Deep down, everyone knows that they are a failure in need of a Savior.  And Jesus is the ultimate Savior.  He is exactly what we're all looking for when we're finally ready to step off the throne and admit it.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26139900 -

Haha, Red China uses red as their power source in their wiring diagrams with black as their neutral. The West uses black as the power and white as neutral. What power source color do you think  Quinn the Eskimo will use? (food for thought)

...and could the future be divined by Quinn's use of the second color in the 220v mode...?

Edited by Buster_Brown (08/17/19 12:10 PM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26142180 -

The problem is I’m a bad reader. I want to read the gospels and become Christian but it ain’t working.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Rorge]
    #26142375 -

Rorge said:
The problem is I’m a bad reader. I want to read the gospels and become Christian but it ain’t working.


You don't have to be a good reader. You need only open your heart to Jesus and accept Him as your savior.

But you can't accept a savior until you can admit that you need saving.

God wants you to call out to Him as if you were a lost child, a baby, crying for its father.  He wants us broken, surrendered to the truth that we are fallen creatures in a fallen world... Whenever we rely on ourselves we fail, and fail... as we round the drain towards death.  To realize there is no hope in this world.. to give up on ourselves, and finally reach up to the heavens and call out to Him to save us.

That's where Jesus is waiting.  For you to call out to Him.  Open your heart.

Jesus saved us because He died for us, bloody, nailed to a cross.  His death paid for all of our sins.  His blood covers us.

Jesus died, and God raised Him from the dead.  Just as we are to die to our old selves, and have new life in Jesus.

All you have to do is believe and open your heart, and God will take it from there.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26142479 -

Why do you say we are wretched sinners though?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: life is good]
    #26142482 -

I mean, don't answer that actually, it's rhetorical.

Glad you are feeling this way and spreading hope and good cheer.

Just focus on the positive.


--------------------


I didn't draw this.

"Hope your day is as wonderful, loving, and kind as you are."
:heart:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: life is good]
    #26142802 -

Good that your sowing seeds saved7 keep on pushing the message .

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: life is good]
    #26143332 -

life is good said:
Why do you say we are wretched sinners though?


Because we pretend that God doesn't exist, so that we can be the gods of our own lives.  We invent different forms of spirituality that let us live our lives the way we want.

At least that was one of my biggest sins that I was trapped in for most of my life.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: flickedbic]
    #26143615 -

flickedbic said:
No other god has the supporting evidence the God of the bible has.


What "evidence" would that be?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26143621 -

saved7 said:
broshammy said:
"There have been nearly 3000 Gods so far but only yours actually exists.The others are silly made up nonsense. But not yours. Yours is real."


This is like saying "there are over 3000 theories for X, therefore another theory must be wrong".. It's a non-argument.

The very fact that humanity is so consumed with the awareness of God should tell you there may be something real behind it.  But it became fashionable to immediately dismiss anything in reality that could not be weighed and measured.  (It's so ironic how non-believers think that the believers are the brainwashed ones)

In my opinion, there is nothing even remotely comparable with the Christian argument for God supported by the Bible.  The truth of Jesus Christ shines forth into all the world.

I think deep-down everyone knows it is the truth, which is why Jesus provokes so much reaction.  Deep down, everyone knows that they are a failure in need of a Savior.  And Jesus is the ultimate Savior.  He is exactly what we're all looking for when we're finally ready to step off the throne and admit it.


That's a lot of fallacious arguments there. :lol:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26143838 -

better explanation.
not a model but a 'mode'

Edited by akira_akuma (08/20/19 02:14 AM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: akira_akuma]
    #26143849 -

OP please explain how we can have original sin, yet some sense of freewill at the same time to possibly disobey God/Jesus more than we already are/do/did/can recover from.


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"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26143996 -

qman said:
flickedbic said:
No other god has the supporting evidence the God of the bible has.


What "evidence" would that be?



The Bible itself is overwhelming evidence to anyone who actually reads it with an open mind.  To believe that such a text is a product of men.. cobbled together by dozens of authors over thousands of years... simply doesn't hold up in my opinion. 

And then to add to that the fulfilled prophecy of Jesus is more amazing evidence.  That this savior would show up on earth, be rejected and punished by his own...

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.”  - Zechariah 12:10

This was written 500 years before Jesus appeared on earth and was nailed to a cross to die for us.

Jesus turned the world on its head.

There will never be enough evidence for one who seeks to doubt.  Even the ancient israelites who directly witnessed divine miracle after miracle, were happy to abandon God at the first sign of trouble.

I don't think skeptics are nearly as concerned about evidence as they claim to be.  We are mostly concerned with finding ways to continue to live after our own lusts.  In that state of mind, the God of the Bible can never be real, no matter how much evidence is presented. 

If He is real, then we are convicted of our sins, and need forgiveness. So we will pretend to deny him over a supposed lack of 'evidence', rather than face the condition of our hearts.

It is only with a repentant heart, calling out for a savior, do we receive the truth. 

I have my ultimate evidence.  I mocked and ridiculed Christianity and Christians for most of my life, I told myself it was all man-made mind-control... and then I opened my heart to Jesus, and the truth washed over me instantly.  Now I know Jesus is it.  He is the beginning and the end, above all things, the light of the world, the way, the truth, and the life.

You can find out for yourself right now in your room.  Admit that you need God's forgiveness and call out to Him for it... open your heart up to Jesus and He will save you, and you will have all the evidence you ever need.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26144121 -

Loaded Shaman said:
OP please explain how we can have original sin, yet some sense of freewill at the same time to possibly disobey God/Jesus more than we already are/do/did/can recover from.


How's this?: There's no accounting for taste and if I want my morsels stewed in their own shyte then who's going to deny me?


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7]
    #26144133 -

"I have my ultimate evidence"

Which is an extremely low standard for a true skeptic.

Also, you can't speculate why a skeptic is being skeptical of very weak evidence. That's a fallacious argument.

"There will never be enough evidence for one who seeks to doubt"

For some that may be true, but solid evidence that can consistently be demonstrated should convince almost every person with little trouble. 

Do some people still think the Earth is flat?  Yes, but the very vast majority are convinced by the evidence that demonstrates that the Earth is not flat.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26144302 -

without experiencing turiya, there is no so much any real convincing thing for a theistic "god", per se.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145166 -

qman said:
"I have my ultimate evidence"

Which is an extremely low standard for a true skeptic.

Also, you can't speculate why a skeptic is being skeptical of very weak evidence. That's a fallacious argument.


The evidence for God is not weak.  There is strong evidence.  Take a look around you.  The assumption that nature created itself... that the laws of nature wrote themselves, is a far less tenable position than that of a designer outside of nature. 

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Romans 1:20

We won't be able to say "Gee, we had no idea you existed!" when we stand before our creator on judgment day.  He has made his presence clear.  It's up to the creation whether or not to seek its creator.

qman said:
"There will never be enough evidence for one who seeks to doubt"

For some that may be true, but solid evidence that can consistently be demonstrated should convince almost every person with little trouble. 



We are told that God manifested himself repeatedly to the ancient Israelites and their ancestors.  Shortly after having some divine miracle performed, most of the people would grow stubborn and quickly abandon God, and turn back towards the world. 

Physical evidence does *not* change someone's heart.  The heart can only be changed with faith.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
- Romans 1:17

God knows that the only way to bring people back to Him is for them to willingly offer up their heart and choose Jesus over the world around them.  After you've accepted Jesus, there will be no more doubt.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26145298 -

"There is strong evidence"  Still waiting on it.

"The assumption nature created itself"  That's a strawman argument. Stop assuming the position of a non-believer. 

"that the laws of nature wrote themselves" Another strawman.

"is a far less tenable position than that of a designer outside of nature"

Again, you can't assume my position and then speculate on the probability of a god. That's another fallacious argument.

"God manifested himself repeatedly"  Based on what evidence?  Why don't we ever see manifestations or miracles in 2019?  Is god too tired now?

"The heart can only be changed by faith"  Is there a position I can't take on faith?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145451 -

"Why Should We Take the Bible Seriously?"


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145477 -

I’m not gonna lie I read Mark 3 just now about Jesus healing the deformed hand. I have deformed hands from biting them and the whole beginning of the chapter was resonating with me so much I think I might have converted. But I think I’m Catholic.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145497 -

qman said:
"Why Should We Take the Bible Seriously?"



"§2: Religions based on texts are also unreal- as in they are misapprehending their own reality- [cf. Matt. 11:27 / Qur'an 14:4 & 2:136] no walayah [وِلاية], no silsilah [سلسلة]."

from my blog

Edited by akira_akuma (08/20/19 10:13 PM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26145749 -

qman said:
"There is strong evidence"  Still waiting on it.

"The assumption nature created itself"  That's a strawman argument. Stop assuming the position of a non-believer. 

"that the laws of nature wrote themselves" Another strawman.

"is a far less tenable position than that of a designer outside of nature"

Again, you can't assume my position and then speculate on the probability of a god. That's another fallacious argument.


Once more.

The laws of nature are powerful evidence for a supernatural creator.  A law-giver from outside of nature.  That truth is staring you right in the face, and always will be.

But I think you want to find God like a thief wants to find a cop.  And so no evidence will ever be good enough and the psuedo-skeptical charade will continue.

qman said:
"God manifested himself repeatedly"  Based on what evidence?  Why don't we ever see manifestations or miracles in 2019?  Is god too tired now?


I already answered this.  Do you have the ears to hear it?
 
Miracles/manifestations do not change the heart.  They might amaze you for a short-time... and then your lusts and desires come creeping back and you again bow down to them, like the Israelites forging a golden calf in the wilderness. 

This is written about extensively in the Old Testament.  God intervenes and saves his people. The people rejoice for a moment, then turn their attention to their aches and pains and their lusts and desires, and quickly forget God.  This happens over and over again.  The Israelites are wandering, lost in the desert, hungry.  God sends them mana from heaven.  After they eat it, instead of remembering the miracle performed for them, they begin complaining that the food isn't good enough and that there's no meat to eat. 

Imagine having your life saved by an unmistakably divine miracle like that and then immediately after start whining and complaining that it wasn't good enough.  Yet that's what every one of us would do.  Because we're not really looking for God.  We're looking to have our fleshly desires fulfilled.  That's why it is said that we are in bondage to our sin.

Think about your own secret lusts.  Would you give them up because you saw a miracle?  No.  You would tell yourself whatever you need to in order to continue in your desires.  This is the condition of our hearts.  We choose the flesh and the world over surrendering to God.  We worship the creation instead of the creator.

That's why God gave us the faith-based solution of Jesus.  Jesus is someone we must willingly call out for, as our savior.  When we do that, our hearts are changed.  When our hearts are changed, we become reconnected to God.  When Jesus is in our hearts, we leave our old selves behind, we take up our own crosses, and joyfully suffer for Him every day, and the world and its lusts have no more power over us.  Only that faith can bring us back to God and make us willingly surrender our old selves and our old lusts.

You could confirm this for yourself today, right now, if you're willing to admit you need saving and call out to Him.  Jesus stands at the door knocking, waiting for you to answer.

In the end, you can present as being a "skeptic" all you want, and you may fool everyone here, but God sees your heart, and knows whether or not you are truly searching for Him.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26145902 -

"laws of nature are powerful evidence for a supernatural creator"    No, nature is NOT evidence for anything supernatural, let alone a creator.

"no evidence will ever be good enough"  For the claim you're attempting to prove, that's very likely the case. What does that tell you about your assertion? 

"This is written about extensively in the Old Testament"    Why should we care about what's written in a book?

"we become reconnected to God"  That's just based on faith, not evidence.

"Only that faith can bring us back to God"   

Faith is NOT a reliable method to find truth. Let me ask you, do you even care what you believe is true or not?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26146756 -

"Why do you believe there is no god?"


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26146785 -

"Failures of Christianity- Miracles Come Again"


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26146839 -

"Faith is all you need?"


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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26146862 -

Ephesians 6:12
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

It will always and forever be a battle with none believers all you can do is plant a seed when it's there time and God calls for them then they will come but for now there's only so much you can say. But your words will stick because one day when they are called on and begin to beg for salvation and repentance for living by the flesh and not for the spirit. They will remember your words.  is

walk your walk now saved7 stay faithfull because times will come when the fire burns out, but I pray your fire burns on strong. Pray for me too man for my struggles  expell the lustsand  the desires of my heart to be only for my wife and  family and work .
Stay strong in your faith God bless you all

Edited by AtheTruth (08/21/19 07:50 PM)

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26147525 -

qman said:
"laws of nature are powerful evidence for a supernatural creator"    No, nature is NOT evidence for anything supernatural, let alone a creator.


The implications are clear.

The same way we know an organizing mind was behind a written novel, or a computer program, we can rationally assume an organizing mind behind this natural system we call the universe.

All physical interactions proceed within the bounds given them by a law-giver.  At the root of all nature is the Word, the law, the information, that commands it.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1

There is no more concise description of what lies at the foundation of all existence than the super-natural WORD, the law governing all things in the universe, as above so below.

On the other hand...

The atheistic/materialist belief that the laws of nature wrote themselves is completely irrational.  The idea that nature gave itself the information by which nature itself is governed is completely absurd.  You can't even begin to form an argument for it because it is such a self-defeating position.

The materialist worldview debunks itself.  It hardly needs any help from me.

I will repeat the message of Romans 1:20
Physical reality itself is such an obvious testament to the Creator that you will have no excuse for denying the existence of God.

If you deny God it's because of something in your heart, and not for a lack of reasonable evidence.


qman said:
"no evidence will ever be good enough"  For the claim you're attempting to prove, that's very likely the case. What does that tell you about your assertion? 

"This is written about extensively in the Old Testament"    Why should we care about what's written in a book?


You asked why God isn't showing himself, remember?

The Old Testament explains a lot about humanity's relationship with God  and the condition of the human heart.

As much as the atheistic/agnostic likes to roleplay as objective evidence-gathering machines... the truth is that people ultimately care little about evidence.  People are primarily concerned about following their lusts - sex, money, status, pleasure, glorification of ourselves. 

God could manifest before the entire world right now, and within hours we'd be diving back into pornography, or whatever thoughts or activity serves our lusts.  Honestly, after the miracle has passed, how long would you last before your gaze falls from the heavens and returns to the things of the flesh below?

In our fallen states we always choose ourselves over God. All the evidence in the world is no match for the condition of our heart.  And that's what God is after, our hearts.  That's the entire narrative of the Bible.

That's why we need Jesus.  When you accept Jesus, you leave your old self dead at the foot of the cross where He bled and died for us.  You are no longer enslaved to your lusts and are given a new heart that continually thirsts after the knowledge and wisdom of God.


qman said:
"we become reconnected to God"  That's just based on faith, not evidence.

"Only that faith can bring us back to God"   

Faith is NOT a reliable method to find truth.


Again, despite your presentation, I don't believe for a second that your pimary motivator is evidence.  In fact, I think in your heart you are running as fast as you can away from the evidence, even your own conscience which may convict you of the truth.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1

Faith is not the blind caricature you'd like it to be.  Quite the opposite. Without faith, you are forever stumbling around in the dark, blindly following the flesh.  Faith is an understanding of reality that far surpasses anything we might cobble together with the wisdom of men.


qman said:
Let me ask you, do you even care what you believe is true or not?


If I didn't believe Jesus Christ was the truth with all my heart, I would not be here.  As I testified to in the OP, Jesus changed my entire life in an instant.

I extend the message to you once more and then I will move on.  Stop pretending that you're just after evidence.  This is all about your heart, which appears to harbor a lot animosity towards God.  About what, I do not know. That's between you and Him.

But no matter what you did, no matter how trapped you might feel, God loves you and will forgive you and save you if you want Him to... if you will only surrender your heart and accept Jesus Christ.  You can do it right now.  Call out to Him! 

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor principalities, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:38-39


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: qman]
    #26148199 -

Here are some of the points I consider.

Generally there's first the creation of a universe from nothing, then the multiplicity of factors all being perfectly tuned from the big bang to support life, and finally there is the actual formation itself of life from non-life.

Then there are the specifics like the veracity of Jesus's existence, the verified authorship of Paul in the bible, and how facts that are accepted by scholars on both sides support the disciple's testimony of a resurrected Jesus.
https://crossexamined.org/the-minimal-facts-of-the-resurrection/
A few more good pieces of supporting evidence:
https://crossexamined.org/10-reasons-accept-resurrection-jesus-historical-fact/

The universe came finely-tuned for life out of the big bang. 

The astronomical odds against this complex fine-tuning point to a creator; the single cause of:
1.  The creation of the universe from nothing.
2.  This universe being so exceedingly finely-tuned, from the moment of the big bang, to support life.
3.  The actual formation of life itself from non-life.

Either that or one just believes in getting unreasonably lucky.

I'll post more specifics about the fine-tuned universe at the end of this post.

The Bible contains the verified authorship of Paul who recorded not only the risen Jesus appearing to him, but that he had subsequently been interviewing the original disciples who lived with Jesus before and after his resurrection.

The most interesting apologetical arguments for me have been the Cosmological argument, the teleological argument, the origin of life from non-life, the multiple eyewitness testimonies of a risen Jesus by the verified authorship of Paul, near death experiences with verified out-of-body observations such as those published in a study by the esteemed international medical journal The Lancet (Gary Habermas, of "The Minimal Facts Argument for the Resurrection" fame, has put out further examples of these NDE verified OBEs), my own forays into instrumental trans-communication evidencing non-physical intelligent communication, and recently I've become interested in the evidences for fulfilled biblical prophecy as well, such as the Daniel 70 week prophecy.


So again, these arguments I'm considering are: the problems of the formation of the universe from nothing, that it was created finely-tuned for life by multiple cosmological constants, and the formation of life from non-life.

I also find it compelling that Paul has verified authorship, and interviews the other apostles to verify their experiences of the resurrected Jesus in addition to his own encounter.

The enemies of Jesus say (in the Talmud) that he performed miracles by the devil, and claim the disciples stole his body... confirming his miracles and empty tomb. 

That apostles went to their death for their eyewitness testimony also lends credence to the validity of their testimony.

The fulfilled prophecies are another very fascinating aspect of verification.

It is for these reasons and more that I am no longer an athiest. 


‐---------------‐--------------------------------------


The universe is clearly fine-tuned.

"If the Holye state didn’t exist, stars could not produce the abundance of carbon they do. Carbon is the basic element upon which life is built. If it were scanter in the universe, life wouldn’t exist, down to the simplest microbes. And it wasn’t clear, for a long time, how the Hoyle state worked, just that it must: After all, here we are.

More recently, scientists have pointed out that if one tweaks many of the dimensionless physical constants — numbers like pi that are independent of units and simply exist as fundamental ideas — none of the cosmos we see would exist. One of these numbers is omega, the density parameter, which pits gravity’s pull against the expanding push of dark energy. If gravity were stronger, the universe would have long since ceased expanding, and would have collapsed back down in a reverse Big Bang, often called the “Big Crunch.” If dark energy were stronger, then the universe would race away from itself so that no matter would stick together and stars, planets, and people could never form.

If the cosmos were truly a random and senseless arrangement of particles, it seems eerie or suspicious to many that these two forces balance so delicately.

...

The universe does seem fine-tuned for our existence."

http://www.astronomy.com/news/2018/11/are-the-laws-of-the-universe-fine-tuned-for-life

"For more than 400 years, physicists treated the universe like a machine, taking it apart to see how it ticks. The surprise is it turns out to have remarkably few parts: just leptons and quarks and four fundamental forces to glue them together.

But those few parts are exquisitely machined. If we tinker with their settings, even slightly, the universe as we know it would cease to exist. Science now faces the question of why the universe appears to have been “fine-tuned” to allow the appearance of complex life, a question that has some potentially uncomfortable answers."

https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/a-universe-made-for-me-physics-fine-tuning-and-life

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: flickedbic]
    #26148238 -

shabdaṁ shriṇute vishuddhaṁ

seek that.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: akira_akuma]
    #26153189 -

I'm glad I found this. I've had a life long question no-one has been able to answer. How is God all knowing and perfect if 1) he doesn't know he's making a mistake and 2) like humans he's controlled and flawed by emotions. My question is based off of God's pleasure with his creation of man (Genesis chapter 1 verse  31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.) then his regret and emotional judgement to destroy us until Noah calmed him down (Genesis chapter 6 verses 5,6,7 and 8. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
I see three problems 1) he didn't know the falling angels would produce children with humans and humans would become evil. 2) the emotional control caused him to become emotional enough to state he would destroy us all (even those who obeyed him. Like Noah and those spared from the flood.) and 3) he lied because he didn't destroy man from the face of the earth. Noah saved use but at the cost of making God a liar.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Jay1] * 2
    #26153224 -

"my foolish faith in Jesus Christ"

*defends it with a fiery crusader sword*


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Jay1]
    #26153269 -

So if God is all knowing he knew from beginning till the end that things where gonna get twisted. (Creation to the revelation) so what if God does has a flaw what if God started something but fucked up a little then did some more magic convinced some people to do somethings and shift it back on track in a way where wars where waged souls where tanken angles smashed on some human pussy all that good stuff .even as Fucked as it sounds . Like creating Lucifer knowing he was gonna go against the grain . What if there's a plot twist in all this and no one goes to hell and we all end up in heaven. What if God wants us to forgive him?

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: AtheTruth] * 1
    #26153676 -

It's really weird to think about Jesus, if he existed and did indeed have so many miracles surrounding his existence, it certainly seems like someone with his abilities could NOT POSSIBLY have existed.
Yet. If you look into it, there is some historical evidence that he did indeed exist, and with several eyewitness accounts from the time period of his many miracles. (Transfiguration of christ, the resurrection, walking on water, etc)
What always struck me as odd,  however, is there isn't a single description  of his appearance from his alleged time period.
I think this had something to do Jewish beliefs at the time, but you would think with the thousands of people he allegedly interacted with, that there would have been someone who described his physical appearance,  and some allegedly did describe him through second hand accounts, but this just seems to be more rumor and myth.
But I don't know, really.
His disciples certainly existed and 10 of them took their testimony of him to the grave as martyrs.
Paul was actively hunting Christians down before claiming he interacted with the resurrected jesus, and he soon faced persecution himself over his sudden and dramatic change in personality and goals.
So it's weird to me that Paul, living in relative comfort in a position of authority and means would suddenly give it all up to spend most of his life in prison furthering christianity.
It is just not something any rational person would do if they were trying to propagate a lie, the same goes for the martyred disciples of Jesus.
It's this that makes me seriously consider that he did in fact exist and did some amazing things, possibly rising from the dead and interacting with people afterwards.

There is no other person like this to have existed ever before or ever since.
This one man is the greatest influential person of all time and how would that be possible if not for some of his story to be real?


I mean, the bible in it's current form and organized religion are questionable no doubt. And have the power to make people unwitting slaves to its message, no doubt this power corrupted VERY many, and I think this corruption is what makes people so hostile towards believing someone like this could have even existed.
But if he did?
It's completly mind-blowing.

I don't know what to make of it, I used to blindly believe not possible, but some scholarly research as of late has me in a state of agnosticism.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: Jay1]
    #26153685 -

Jay1 said:
I'm glad I found this. I've had a life long question no-one has been able to answer. How is God all knowing and perfect if 1) he doesn't know he's making a mistake and 2) like humans he's controlled and flawed by emotions. My question is based off of God's pleasure with his creation of man (Genesis chapter 1 verse  31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.) then his regret and emotional judgement to destroy us until Noah calmed him down (Genesis chapter 6 verses 5,6,7 and 8. 5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
I see three problems 1) he didn't know the falling angels would produce children with humans and humans would become evil. 2) the emotional control caused him to become emotional enough to state he would destroy us all (even those who obeyed him. Like Noah and those spared from the flood.) and 3) he lied because he didn't destroy man from the face of the earth. Noah saved use but at the cost of making God a liar.




In Revelation 13:8 Jesus is called the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


... the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world...

This means that before the world was even created, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was already written.

These verses are touching on a mystery that is far beyond man's wisdom.
I can't even begin to fathom the power of God who exists both inside and outside of time... God who knows the End before the Beginning.

That brings this other verse to mind, also describing Jesus:

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Jesus Christ is above and beyond the very fabric of Time.  We cannot begin to comprehend the dimensions of how great He is.

And to think this Almighty God came down to this fallen world to die for us, bloody, in excruciating pain, nailed to a wooden cross.  The infinite Love God showed for his creation that rejected Him and worshipped their own flesh...

That's why it is so easy for us to be saved if we just turn from the world and believe in Jesus.  No matter where you are in your life, Jesus is right there with you... waiting for you to call out to Him.

God knew exactly how you'd live your life, whatever you, the reader, did in your life to end up here reading these words.  God knew it all, and even knows how you're going to respond, and yet the choice is yours. 

God is waiting for you to finally give up on yourself and turn back to Him. 

That's essentially what the Holy Bible is... it is one repeating story, one fractal pattern, illuminating the choice we have between the World and God.



Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

- Colossians 1


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: saved7] * 1
    #26153704 -

relevant:
https://www.minds.com/CynicalBastard/blog/the-sufi-way-navigated-by-intellect-1010763360031465472

The Sufi Way Navigated By Intellect

§1: Sufi's follow the path of the mystics- which is the path of the prophets- which is the path underlying all religions. Religious faiths are illogical. They form organizations without the leader- as all religions have formed from the desert- from dead prophets- no navi, no navigation. No navigation, no truth; no truth, no reality; no reality, no law; no law, no path/way, q.e.f.

§2: Religions based on texts are also unreal- as in they are misapprehending their own reality- [cf. Matt. 11:27 / Qur'an 14:4 & 2:136] no walayah [وِلاية], no silsilah [سلسلة].

§3: The "law" is also synonymous in other religions, like the Dharmakāya of Buddhism & Manusmriti [मनुस्मृति] of Hinduism. This is where religions are bourne. Thru the "law" of the "word" of God[s].

§4: Shari'a is synonymous with the cornerstone of the Qur'an, it's insuperable- it is basically the external "law", while the Qur'an is the esoteric teaching as God's Word [kalaam-i Illaahi].

§5: Fiqh / trad. jurisprudence (أصول الفقه) ['roots of fiqh'] is derived from "Islamic law" or in other words, shari'a (شريعة). It's from the word of Allaah (الله).

§6: The etymology of "Torah" is derived, ultimately, from the verbal root w-r-w "to throw, cast, lead, guide"....So yes, Torah or Shari'a "leads". To think this "law" is the same thing as "penal law" is wrongheaded. Shari'a does not mean "law", per se, but is the "law" [which is why it's given the title "sharia law"]; shari'a means "path", and in layman's terms, the "path" is not "criminal law", but "moral law".

§7: It'd be better to say that "Sharia is the Arabic term for Islamic law, and it literally translates as 'a path to water where people can drink and seek nourishment'..." It's literally 'a term for Arabic law'- which is derived from the already extant term, from the root [ش ر ع].

§8: Qur'an [Islam] follows Torah [Jews] as "peoples of the book", they follow the "law", "word", "way", and it is the "faith" and cornerstone of their religions, similarly to most [if not all] religions.

§9: To Christians, Jesus is more so the cornerstone of their faith, than the old or new testament. To Muslims, Muhammad is more so the cornerstone of their faith, than the Qur'an, per se [that is, viz. it's textual formula]- however, this foundation is round the true cornerstone.

§10: The "word" [Kalam or كلام] itself isn't even words; it's a path, and a "grace" by way of Muhammad [al-barakah al-Muhammadiyya / نعمة المحمدية]. The silsila [or golden chain] is kept thru time immemorial.

§11: The message and the messenger are the "way to the watering-hole" which, as I said, also, is a metaphor for a higher truth. That God is the "way" and entirely unique, q.e.d.

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Re: My Foolish Faith in Jesus Christ [Re: hTx]
    #26155720 -

hTx said:
It's really weird to think about Jesus, if he existed and did indeed have so many miracles surrounding his existence, it certainly seems like someone with his abilities could NOT POSSIBLY have existed.
Yet. If you look into it, there is some historical evidence that he did indeed exist, and with several eyewitness accounts from the time period of his many miracles. (Transfiguration of christ, the resurrection, walking on water, etc)
What always struck me as odd,  however, is there isn't a single description  of his appearance from his alleged time period.
I think this had something to do Jewish beliefs at the time, but you would think with the thousands of people he allegedly interacted with, that there would have been someone who described his physical appearance,  and some allegedly did describe him through second hand accounts, but this just seems to be more rumor and myth.
But I don't know, really.
His disciples certainly existed and 10 of them took their testimony of him to the grave as martyrs.
Paul was actively hunting Christians down before claiming he interacted with the resurrected jesus, and he soon faced persecution himself over his sudden and dramatic change in personality and goals.
So it's weird to me that Paul, living in relative comfort in a position of authority and means would suddenly give it all up to spend most of his life in prison furthering christianity.
It is just not something any rational person would do if they were trying to propagate a lie, the same goes for the martyred disciples of Jesus.
It's this that makes me seriously consider that he did in fact exist and did some amazing things, possibly rising from the dead and interacting with people afterwards.

There is no other person like this to have existed ever before or ever since.
This one man is the greatest influential person of all time and how would that be possible if not for some of his story to be real?


I mean, the bible in it's current form and organized religion are questionable no doubt. And have the power to make people unwitting slaves to its message, no doubt this power corrupted VERY many, and I think this corruption is what makes people so hostile towards believing someone like this could have even existed.
But if he did?
It's completly mind-blowing.

I don't know what to make of it, I used to blindly believe not possible, but some scholarly research as of late has me in a state of agnosticism.


The disciple Thomas would not fully believe, even as the resurrected Jesus Christ stood before him. 

This man Jesus who was publicly whipped, nailed to a cross, and driven through with a spear... left as a bloody corpse buried in a tomb for days... and here Jesus stood.

It wasn't until Thomas reached out and felt the actual nail prints in Jesus' own hands, and the wound in his side, did Thomas finally surrender to the truth, and realize that he now stood before God.



The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

John Ch. 20
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+20&version=KJV


Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, those with a heart hardened against God will still deny the truth.  People don't have an "evidence" problem with God, they have a heart problem.  We don't want to admit that we've rebelled against our own creator, that we need forgiveness....  We refuse to give up the driver's seat of our lives and give all the glory back to God.

It sounds like you're softening up to the truth.  The seed is planted.

He waits at the door knocking.  Call out to Jesus now and have your answer.


--------------------
"Who do you say that I am?"
- Jesus quoted in the Gospel of Matthew

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