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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25838353 -

You left one key point out.

For our time to be worthwhile, the entire world would have to follow suit. And that doesn't mean making verbal agreements, but the entire world radically changing it's infrastructure to prevent the "destruction of the world."

Never in history have all countries made and alliance in any way and I would not err on the side of optimism when the entire world is at stake. I would err on preparing for temperature shifts and ...climate change.

That's the problem with the green deal. The lefties want people to think the world is ending and the government, and only the  government (not the states), can stop it. Meanwhile the rest of the world is doing what it wants except a small handful of nations.

Further, coal is a requirement for steel. And demand for steel will rise with the population.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25838429 -

Everyone's so afraid of Government power.  I don't think most people know how to make sense out of such a thing like that.

I know everyone wants a voice.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #25838434 -

Terrified.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25838530 -

I just read a study that conservatives have a larger amygdala and researchers were able to accurately predict whether a study participant was conservative based on how their fear centers in the brain lit up during MRI scans.

Your fear is biological.

What is it like to be afraid constantly? Sometimes I watch the squirrels at the bird feeder constantly on edge worried about the hawks coming in and swooping them away. Like little trump supporters, jealous that the birds have the ability to fly and afraid of being taken out by hawks.

Edited by koods (02/26/19 08:22 AM)

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL] * 3
    #25838533 -

To be honest XUL, I believe this "one key point" of yours is just some of the more recent talking points you've received through whatever billionaire propaganda network you subscribe to and then decided to regurgitate here.

You know that you're supposed to be against attempts to limit anthropogenic climate change, and you know that these talking points apparently reinforce that position - but the analysis stops there.

  • You argue that anthropogenic climate change is an issue that transcends national borders, and therefore requires global cooperation.

  • You then argue that such global cooperation has never happened before, and therefore we are better to plan for the inevitable effects rather than continue fruitlessly against the cause.

  • Finally, you argue that fear mongering on the topic is a tool being used to consolidate government authority.


The reason I believe you, without any analysis, are regurgitating billionaire talking points here is because the same deductive reasoning could be used as an argument against attempts to limit irregular migration.

Academic analysis has shown* that restrictive border control measures focused on deterrence do not have a lasting impact on the number of arrivals but rather result in changes to the ways in which migration occurs. This is because migration is a complex social process that extends well beyond the reach of domestic border control policies. 

Therefore, according to your own deductive process, the reasonable approach is to prepare for the arrival of migrant populations - not optimistically continue to think it will be stopped by more government.

But... you clearly support the United States federal government in their recent decision to use national emergency legislation to in order to force the border states to comply with its authority - which obviously contrasts with the warning in your third argument that fear mongering will be used as a tool to consolidate government authority at home while the rest of the world continues on unaffected.

Does immigration warrant giving the government more power?






Footnotes
* Czaika, M., and H. De Haas (2013). The effectiveness of immigration policies; Cornelius, W.A. (2001) Death at the border: Efficacy and unintended consequences of US immigration control policy; Cornelius, W. A. (2005). Controlling 'unwanted' immigration: Lessons from the United States, 1993-2004; Lutterbeck, D. (2006). Policing migration in the Mediterranean; Spijkerboer, T. (2007) The human costs of border control.


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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #25838543 -

Why does Trump promote global warming?

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25838761 -

Beyond that, this is how I would directly respond:

Quote:
For our time to be worthwhile, the entire world would have to follow suit. And that doesn't mean making verbal agreements, but the entire world radically changing it's infrastructure to prevent the "destruction of the world."



The depends on what you mean by "worthwhile". I believe it is now widely accepted that even if we could stop global CO2 emissions immediately, we would still see global temperatures continue to increase to an average of 1.5°c - we would still see the negative effects of climate change continue to increase for most of our lifetimes. If your idea of "worthwhile" is an immediate reversal of human-caused global warming, then there is certainly no worthwhile response to global warming.

If, on the other hand, your idea of "worthwhile" is any action that significantly shifts global momentum away from a 2°c increase, than the USA - being the second largest contributor of CO2 globally - could definitely make many worthwhile changes.

Beyond that, I definitely advocate a form of activism that doesn't depend on the masses following suit. I might not save the world, but I'll definitely make the world I directly live in a better place.




Quote:
Never in history have all countries made and alliance in any way and I would not err on the side of optimism when the entire world is at stake. I would err on preparing for temperature shifts and ...climate change.



I agree that any response to anthropogenic climate change must include preparation for a world at least 1.5°c warmer than pre-industrial levels. You can plan for the best while still preparing for the worse.

Furthermore, you appear to be suggesting that groups supportive of the 'New Green Deal' and other climate action, are not the same groups as those proposing preparations be made for future catastrophic climate events. Personally, most of the preparation for future disasters is being undertaken by left-wing activists - unless you count doomsday prep. What steps are Republicans (or the right-wing in general) taking to prepare for future climate change?




Quote:
That's the problem with the green deal. The lefties want people to think the world is ending and the government, and only the  government (not the states), can stop it. Meanwhile the rest of the world is doing what it wants except a small handful of nations.



I'm not sure why you apparently see a distinction been federal and state government, but both qualify as 'the government'.

Besides, "lefties" aren't the only ones who think the world is ending and only the government can stop it - some people say it's climate change, others say it's mass immigration or terrorism or drugs or cultural marxism. They all use fear mongering to drive an emotional response from the masses.

Oh, except climate change because that actually has science backing it up (see Falcon91Wolvrn03 post above) to an extent that none of those right-wing fear mongering exercises have. The fear mongering is from those who call climate change a Chinese hoax.




Quote:
Further, coal is a requirement for steel. And demand for steel will rise with the population.



Correction: carbon and heat are a requirement for new (but not recycled) steel. I'm sure human ingenuity can find a solution.

But yes, this is a good example of why simply switching energy sources alone is not sufficient - we need to seriously consider industrial society and its future.


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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25838792 -

https://www.dailywire.com/news/43880/ocasio-cortez-people-maybe-shouldnt-reproduce-due-ryan-saavedra

Yep, no more having babies because the world is going to end in a few years. :flowstone:

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25838875 -

XUL said:
You left one key point out.

For our time to be worthwhile, the entire world would have to follow suit. And that doesn't mean making verbal agreements, but the entire world radically changing it's infrastructure to prevent the "destruction of the world."



I don't know times it's been pointed out to you that the entire world already HAS agreed to the Paris Climate Agreement, except for the US, who along with Canada are BY FAR the worst's worst emitter of greenhouse gases.

The entire world should really be rising up against the US.  :shrug:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25838898 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
XUL said:
You left one key point out.

For our time to be worthwhile, the entire world would have to follow suit. And that doesn't mean making verbal agreements, but the entire world radically changing it's infrastructure to prevent the "destruction of the world."



I don't know times it's been pointed out to you that the entire world already HAS agreed to the Paris Climate Agreement, except for the US, who along with Canada are BY FAR the worst's worst emitter of greenhouse gases.

The entire world should really be rising up against the US.  :shrug:



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/canada-forests-carbon-sink-or-source-1.5011490

Quote:
You might have heard that Canada's forests are an immense carbon sink, sucking up all sorts of CO2 — more than we produce — so we don't have to worry about our greenhouse gas emissions.

This claim has been circulated on social media and repeated by pundits and politicians.

This would be convenient for our country, if it were real. Hitting our emissions-reduction targets would be a breeze. But, like most things that sound too good to be true, this one is false.

That's because trees don't just absorb carbon when they grow, they emit it when they die and decompose, or burn.

When you add up both the absorption and emission, Canada's forests haven't been a net carbon sink since 2001. Due largely to forest fires and insect infestations, the trees have actually added to our country's greenhouse gas emissions for each of the past 15 years on record.



Quote:
In its 2017 revised submission to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, the federal government indicated how it plans to re-evaluate its accounting of biomass.

"Canada is examining its approach to accounting in the land use, land-use change and forestry sector," the submission reads.

As part of this process, Canada will "exclude the impacts of natural disturbances and focus on anthropogenic emissions and removals."

In other words: Don't count our wildfires or the devastation from our pine beetles, but do count our forestry and farming practices.

This approach, Cameron says, would go a long way toward helping Canada meet its emission-reduction targets under the Paris Agreement.

"We are currently projected to fall 232 megatonnes short in 2030," he wrote last year. "By switching to one of the alternative accounting methodologies for emissions from land use, forestry and forest products allowed under the framework, Canada could narrow the gap — perhaps by as much as 63 or 126 megatonnes — even if our actual emissions don't change."

The bottom line is that our trees — along with our other, plentiful sources of biomass — could be part of the solution in meeting our international agreements on climate change, but that's more a question of accounting than of actual emissions.



not saying Canada should not be held accountable for (all) our emissions
just find it to be a sad sign of the losing battle
kind of like how once the Siberian permafrost gets really melting it will just serve to speed thangs up

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: qman]
    #25839967 -

qman said:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/43880/ocasio-cortez-people-maybe-shouldnt-reproduce-due-ryan-saavedra

Yep, no more having babies because the world is going to end in a few years. :flowstone:



And how about Feinstein contradicting AOC when she told those school children they were misguided.

Pretty sad for AOC.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25839979 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Does immigration warrant giving the government more power?






No.

The government should exist to protect our sovereign nation, which might mean building a wall and having some patrols.

The military protects us while we live in 50 free states guided by the constitution.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25840065 -

Such nuance from the “government is a sliding scale between “more” and “less”” crowd.


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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25840510 -

XUL said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Does immigration warrant giving the government more power?




No.

The government should exist to protect our sovereign nation, which might mean building a wall and having some patrols.

The military protects us while we live in 50 free states guided by the constitution.



Do you support Trump, and the US federal government, in their recent decision to invoke national emergency law due to a claimed migrant crisis?

Because that would be the definition of thinking: "yes, immigration does warrant giving government more power".


Allow me to quote you:
Quote:
The lefties want people to think the world is ending and the government, and only the  government (not the states), can stop it.



I would submit that those "righties" cultivating a false immigration crisis in the USA, to the extent that national emergency laws have been invoked in an attempt to force all southern border states and Congress to comply with the Trump administration - those are the people guilty of wanting people to think the world is ending and the government, and only the government (not the states), can stop it."

At least the climate change crowd have legitimate science backing up their claim to emergency.


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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #25840626 -

Innocent Americans have been killed by the hand of illegal immigrants. Further, there are 11 - 22 million undocumented aliens in our country.

That is reason enough for an emergency.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25840640 -

Innocent illegal immigrants have been killed by the hands of Americans.  Should we declare an emergency about that?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL] * 3
    #25840679 -

XUL said:
Innocent Americans have been killed by the hand of illegal immigrants. Further, there are 11 - 22 million undocumented aliens in our country.

That is reason enough for an emergency.



So, in other words, you believe that immigration warrants giving the government more power.

You are exactly what you claim to despise.

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25840694 -

Quote:
Innocent Americans have been killed by the hand of illegal immigrants. Further, there are 11 - 22 million undocumented aliens in our country.

That is reason enough for an emergency.



      More people are killed by wildlife than aliens . Nature is scary let’s declare a national  emergency.  . 

“”Bites, kicks, and stings from farm animals, bees, wasps, hornets, and dogs continue to represent the most danger to humans, according to a new study in Wilderness “”

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180228112528.htm


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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #25841612 -

Hurricanes kill Americans and are literal emergencies...


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Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25842664 -

XUL said:
Innocent Americans have been killed by the hand of illegal immigrants. Further, there are 11 - 22 million undocumented aliens in our country.

That is reason enough for an emergency.



Illegal immigration is at it's lowest rate in decades. The conservative publication National Review said the administration's legal case for declaring an emergency was weak. There is no emergency. It's just political pandering to Trump's base, many of whom will lose faith in him if he cannot keep his biggest campaign promise. Whatever little wall gets built will have no real effect. The wall will have precisely the same meaning as Trump building a statue of himself.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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