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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell
    #25711592 -

Opened my rye spawn jars today to put in sub. Two jars had a citrus smell similar to citrus wood polish.

BACTERIAL!

The culprit, micropore tape.

When prepping my grains I decided to test polyfil verses micropore tape. Two jars had a half inch hole with polyfil and two had 4 quarter inch holes with initially one layer of micropore tape. I soaked, boiled and pc'd the grains and followed all sanitary and sterile procedures for inoculating with MS syringe. The grains colonized in just under 4 weeks at room temp 67°. (My apt is poorly insulated and propane is expensive.)

No sign of contams. The mycelium grew quickly and evenly. At full colonization it was all pure white with no funky colors or secretions. It wasn't until I opened the jars that I knew anything was wrong. Unfortunately my test was a success. Now I definitively know that polyfil provides better FAE than micropore tape. 

The jar with the polyfil had a nice earthy mushroom smell. This is how I know it was the tape and not my technique.




Three notes:

1 – After inoculating through the tape I put a second layer of tape over the injection hole.  So two layers of tape evidently was too much of a GE barrier. 

2 – I was hoping tape would work because poking the needle through it is easier.  Once after flaming the needle and letting it cool for a couple of seconds it melted the polyfil which stuck to it making it difficult to get the needle through. This will no longer be an issue however because I am now working with MEA pitris.

3 – I ended up with three jars due to a rookie mistake.  When inoculating I was so intent on following sterile procedure I shot my first jar before shaking the syringe. I squirted my first jar with just water. Evidently spores are necessary for mycelium growth. Who knew? Lol

This is good information because I was debating whether to use polyfil or micropore tape over my tub holes as well.  It will definitely be polyfil.

I put all three jars to sub in my tub (CVG) as another test. We'll see if the mycelium can beat out the bacteria.  If it does not grow well I will toss it. I will keep you posted.

FAE - Fresh Air Exchange
GE - Gas Exchange
Sub – Substrate
Tub - Monotub
CVG – Coir, Vermiculite, Gypsum
MEA – Malt Extract, Agar

Edited by In Lakech (12/30/18 01:18 PM)

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: In Lakech]
    #25711603 -

Just to clarify you used spores to grain? If so this could be why you have bacterial contamination (spores will always carry some contam with them).

I have used micro pore tape for my grain jars for a while with no real problems using a clean LC and agar to inoculate. I agree that the GE might not be as good as Polyfil but I disagree that the tape itself could cause contams.

I have also done PF tek without Verm barrier injecting through one layer of micro pore tape then adding another to cover the hole, still with good success.

For grain I put the tape on before PCing the jars so they are sterile and inoculate by opening the jar in SAB, when my technique is good my contam rate is very low.

I have started to use Polyfil for my grain more nowadays anyway because its long to clean the tape off the lids after they've been PCd.


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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Mike O.Rrhizal]
    #25711627 -

I get bacterial spawn 100% of the time using ms from a syringe. Usually will still fruit, but doesn't perform well.

If you want to test things the scientific way, you have to eliminate variables. Clean up your myc on agar, then try inoculating jars with clean myc and compare. I use micropore tape and have very healthy myc.

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Mike O.Rrhizal]
    #25711628 -

i admire your desire to document and try to figure things out. that's just what we need around here. BUT, one of the biggest mistakes new magic cultivators make is assuming that their experiment proves what they want it to prove while ignoring a veritable host of other possibilities.

Many, Many, Many people have grown successfully with micro pore tape on jars and on tubs. I'd put money on you not having learned what you think you've learned.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Mike O.Rrhizal]
    #25711635 -

Has anybody else observed citrus smelling contaminatios?. Seems odd to me?
I never had problems with micropore tape.

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Shroomei]
    #25711943 -

Well I'll be first to admit my test didn't eliminate all variables.  I just jumped to the first conclusion.  It is interesting that you guys have had success with the tape. Maybe my putting the second layer of tape on was the problem. I PC'd the jars with the first layer but added the second layer in my SAB after inoculating. Maybe that introduced the contams?

In searching today I did not find any discussions regarding the citrus smell. That is partially why I posted this, to see if anyone else has encountered it. It was a citrusy, solvent smell.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

From now on I will be isolating on agar and transferring to my grains. But I think I will stick with poly.


--------------------
I will forever miss spirit surfing the multicolored waves of Jerry's guitar riffs!:sun:

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: In Lakech]
    #25712017 -

buy a couple sfd, cut them into quarter sized pieces and rtv them over the hole. hands down the best filter available in my opinion.


--------------------
Masters and slaves hunting clones        How not to isolate (it worked, but)


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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: verum subsequentis]
    #25712036 -

I don't think I've ever had contamination due to my filter. I've used poly, tyvek, and micropore tape.

Way back in the day when I did pf tek, I used a verm barrier with much success.

Proper pc and clean myc is the key to clean spawn.

Edited by Subfinder (12/30/18 05:47 PM)

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: In Lakech]
    #25712092 -

I have been thinking about getting sfd's. I'll have to give them a try.  I'm looking forward to working with clean isolates as well. I've got 5 dishes with initial blooms going. Considering these are my first 3 jars I guess I should be satisfied that everything went as well as it did.  I think to do this you have to enjoy the process as a hobby not just the outcome.  Its fascinating to watch this stuff grow.  I'll get it dialed in eventually.

For newcomers: (cause having to stop and look up acronyms is a pain.)

MS Syringe- Multispore
SFD's - Synthetic Filter Discs


--------------------
I will forever miss spirit surfing the multicolored waves of Jerry's guitar riffs!:sun:

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Subfinder] * 1
    #25712099 -

Putting non-sterile tape over holes could be a problem.

Don't poke holes in your filters. Open the jar. You have to flame less that way anyway.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: In Lakech]
    #25712105 -

In Lakech said:
I have been thinking about getting sfd's. I'll have to give them a try.  I'm looking forward to working with clean isolates as well. I've got 5 dishes with initial blooms going. Considering these are my first 3 jars I guess I should be satisfied that everything went as well as it did.  I think to do this you have to enjoy the process as a hobby not just the outcome.  Its fascinating to watch this stuff grow.  I'll get it dialed in eventually.

For newcomers: (cause having to stop and look up acronyms is a pain.)

MS Syringe- Multispore
SFD's - Synthetic Filter Discs



Lol, you'll get there. We all started out all fucked up. After a while you figure out what works. Concentrate on clean myc.

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #25712223 -

When you say "flame less" what do you mean? When transferring myc from agar to grain I'll be scooping a little myc on the scalpel and putting it into the jar will I not be flaming in between each jar?


--------------------
I will forever miss spirit surfing the multicolored waves of Jerry's guitar riffs!:sun:

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: In Lakech]
    #25712256 -

I imagine he means simply opening the jar as oppose to sticking it through the tape would allow you to carry on without flaming the needle again to continue the procedure.
If I am reading it correctly. :shrug:


--------------------

One must be mindful to maintain their balance on the slippery earth.

Bod's Comprehensive Agar Resource
Gizmodo's Market Stall
Say No To Grow Kits

Edited by gizmodo (12/30/18 07:40 PM)

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: gizmodo]
    #25712260 -

gizmodo said:
I imagine he means simply opening the jar as oppose to sticking it through the tape would allow you to carry on without flaming the needle again to continue the procedure.
If I am reading it correctly. :shrug:


:whathesaid:

It only applies to syringe inoculations. If you don't touch anything with the needle you don't have to resterilize. Saves a shitload of time if you're doing more than a couple jars.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: 36fuckin5] * 1
    #25712314 -

Cool. Good to know.


--------------------
I will forever miss spirit surfing the multicolored waves of Jerry's guitar riffs!:sun:

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: In Lakech]
    #25713217 -

Many thanks for spelling out the abbreviations. It is a really PITA :smile: to find three right meaning here.
A newcomer

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Shroomei]
    #25713250 -

All the meanings are in the search


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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Mike O.Rrhizal]
    #25713567 -

Searching was not made for lazy people.

This is better
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14885066#14885066

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Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Shroomei]
    #25713629 -

Shroomei said:
Searching was not made for lazy people.

This is better
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14885066#14885066


Nothing is made for lazy people.

Typing some shit out requires a tiny amount of work. There used to be days when you had to get up and go to a library and search through fucktons of books. I'd much rather search a search engine than a library.


--------------------
Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Rye grain jars sweet citrus smell [Re: Shroomei]
    #25714158 -

I had found the glossary & lexicon and read through it but in my search for individual acronyms those other threads did not come up.  Even now doing a search for abbreviations brought up FastFreds but not hamloafs. Thanks for posting this.


--------------------
I will forever miss spirit surfing the multicolored waves of Jerry's guitar riffs!:sun:

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