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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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so.. what about *super* mycology?
    #2532794 -

a thought just popped into my head......

okay so we all understand that there are some substrates out there that have been picked out to be the ideal food for mushies, whether it is BRF or bird seed or whatever.
(ignore, for a moment, the fact that these things are used also because of their widespread availability)

have these things been chosen because they are what has worked the BEST out of all the other stuff on the shelf, or have they been picked because they provide everything that the mushies require?

what im getting at is.... the scientific community should know by now exactly what a mushroom needs to grow and the relative amount of it (on a molecular level). so, theoretically, is it possible to mix up some type of 'steroid food' for mushrooms? with vitamin X and X and etc?

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: toad857]
    #2532819 -

very interesting question toad! i'm anxious to hear what our message board pros have to say!

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: toad857]
    #2532842 -

Evolutionarily speaking the mushies would have tailored themeselves to their natural environment, so manure or (for certain species) wood would likely already be the steroid food you speak of.

However, substrates with crazy amounts of precursors may make extremely potent shrooms.


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"Yeah, he's a professor...... OF BEING A DOG!"

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: toad857]
    #2532847 -

The size of the mushrooms is relavent to the amount of myceluim that is grown.You can grow shrooms on a petri dish with agar,but its not gonna grow big.Although your mixture may have all the nutrients needed,a teaspoon of myceluim wont produce a lot of or large mushrooms.
If your asking if this can just be added to the substrate,well yes people do add dextrose to substrate to boost yield.but not vitamens,at least i dont believe so.

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: DrMambo]
    #2533056 -

"Evolutionarily speaking the mushies would have tailored themeselves to their natural environment, so manure or (for certain species) wood would likely already be the steroid food you speak of."

True, but humans still take steroids to get bigger.

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: obfuscatelesol]
    #2533112 -

obfuscatelesol said:
True, but humans still take steroids to get bigger.


that's exactly what i was thinking... but steroids rely on horomones to, for example, tell your muscles to get bigger or whatever. i dont know that much about mushroom biology though.. mushrooms dont have an endocrine system like ours so they dont use horomones--at least not in the same way as mammals.

i was thinking that maybe if there was some type of signal that the mush received when it was time to open up their veils, then we could inhibit this signal and the mush would simply keep growing.

like an earlier reply said, the mush size depends on myc size. however if it were possible to inhibit the veil signal and let it continue growth, then we could just grow really tall shrooms and whenever they stopped growing, we would know when all of the substrate was used up. it would be 1 flush, rather than 4. (although their dry weights would be theoretically the same)

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: toad857]
    #2540288 -

Substrate optimization will be different for every species, and every strain, and every substrain.
Different Carbon sources, diferent macronutrients, micronutrients, vitamins, growth regulators, etc........ All can play a part in optimization.

Experiment away. Start by reading a good nutritional or physiology text that is specific to Fungi.

COST and Availability are important in Mushrooms for money operations.

Adding more nutrition will increase mycelial mass, and therefore increase yield. Caution, understand that there is an interaction between all nutrients. To much of one thing can hurt other things(antagonism).

WHAT IS OPTIMAL FOR ONE DIKARYON, may not be optimal for another. If you are dealing with a single culture(dikaryon) optimization is realistic.

The science of fungal physiology is relatively new, and typically restricted to species easy to study and legal to study. Otherwise, the fungi in question is relevant to society at large, ie it is a pathogenic fungi on crops, or it is a food source, or medicine. Society at large is trying to restrict access to fungi of the FUNNY kind, not optimize growing them.

You may find yourself entering VIRGIN waters.

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: ]
    #2540405 -

"Society at large is trying to restrict access to fungi of the FUNNY kind, not optimize growing them.

You may find yourself entering VIRGIN waters."

If that's the case then the Shroomery is hard at work poppin' that cherry!
:grin:


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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: toad857]
    #2541230 -

All optimum nutrition does for ANY species of life on this planet is allow the organism to acheive its genetic potential. My guess would be that most substrates accomplish this goal almost completely so knowing exactly what a mushie needs and giving it that and only that will result in only marginal improvements in yields.

Precursor loading is another story however...

--Aeolus

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: toad857]
    #2541669 -

Consider weed. Its "natural environment" is the ground. But who the hell wastes their money on weed grown outdoors when you can buy INCREDIBLY potent hydroponic weed. (relax, i know good weed can be grown outdoors, I'm speaking in general, hydro beats outdoor by far)

So p.cubes naturally grow in shit... But what is THEIR equivilant of a chemical balanced, light timed, temp controlled, atmosphere controlled hydroponic system?

The natural environment is only where it has managed to survive, not where it has become as good as it can be.

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: mg420]
    #2542350 -

But psi;ocybin is psilocybin. So if you have to eat an extra gram, big whoop. I just don't think it's worth the time unless you found a way to considerably boost levels of active compounds way beyond what they are naturally. If anyone figures out how and I can still get all my supplies from walmart and petsmart, let me know!


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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2543116 -

Matching a dikaryon with an optimized substrate formulation will result in larger then marginal improvements.

So your guess would be wrong.

Varying even a single nutrient above or below a threshold level will result in no growth.  Giving it within a range will result in good growth. Giving it at exactly the right concentration will cause OPTIMAL growth.  Optimal can mean growing through an entire petri in 3 days versus 10 days.  That is substantial. It can also mean the difference between fruiting and not fruitng with species other then cubensis.

Not everything in life can be determined by guessing.

I agree that there is a genetic potential, but ignoring optimization will not result in reaching anywhere close to that potential.

I have met genuises that failed out of highschool, apparently the system was not optimized for them to reach their potential.

EDIT

Precursor loading IS substrate optimization. Optimizing Goodie production. Why you would except optimization in this instance and not towards general growth is confusing to me.  :confused:

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: mockeylock]
    #2543151 -

Optimum environmnetal parameters other then substrate formulation can be found in The Mushroom Cultivator by Paul Stametes. Not all dikaryons will perform optimal at those exact parameters, but the average of the population will.

Substrate optimization with cubensis has not been studied to this point.

Fungal nutrition and Physiology is a Great comprehensive Text on the subject.

Potency would follow the same rules.

So this doesn't sound like an argument. If you just want to grow none of this is important. Just follow the general parameters, and use a known substrate of productivity.

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: toad857]
    #2543294 -

Precursor loading IS substrate optimization. Optimizing Goodie production. Why you would except optimization in this instance and not towards general growth is confusing to me.
except?

But yes, I definatly agree, optimization of conditions for the specific mushroom species is in my opinion the first thing you want to work on, as you said, if the conditions arent right, it won't fruit no matter how good the substrate.

>Optimum environmnetal parameters other then substrate formulation can be found in The Mushroom Cultivator by Paul Stametes. Not all dikaryons will perform optimal at those exact parameters, but the average of the population will.

I believe theyre somewhere in the shroomery too.
Optimum Growth Parameters

A question just popped in my head though, I would think that the dikaryons that form at not-optimal conditions could never perform as well as the dikaryons that form at optimum temperature? Or would they perform as well, but at the optimum conditions for that specific strain/substrain?

Erik006


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At last you know what ineffable is, and what ecstacy means

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2543426 -

Aeolus1369 said:
Precursor loading is another story however...

--Aeolus


I was referring specifically to direct precursors of psilocybin and psilosin (e.g. tryptamine)

--Aeolus

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Re: so.. what about *super* mycology? [Re: Aeolus1369]
    #2544240 -

>I was referring specifically to direct precursors of psilocybin and psilosin (e.g. tryptamine)

its psilocin :wink:

And I think teonan understood this, to my knowledge (which iis not very extended on this subject) It is still substrate optimization because you are providing a tryptamine that the mushroom can use, it may not be in the way of a high yield of mushrooms, but a high potency mushroom.

Erik006


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At last you know what ineffable is, and what ecstacy means

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