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Offlinef8L
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Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 397
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN
    #1488133 - 04/24/03 03:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

10) Coldshocking is useful . <--- There is no scientific or even from what I know empirical evidence suggesting any sort of link between cold shocking and an increase in fruiting times.

9) Shrooms need light . Another one isn't really correct. Shrooms need light in order to initiate pinning (some suggest a few second of light is sufficient). Since shrooms do not require light, this reduces your chances of someone finding your grow. A closed box in the back of your closet is going to draw a lot less attention than a translucent lid with a light shining down on it.

8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another . There is no evidence suggesting a link between potency between increased psilocybin/psilocin ratios in a particular strain.

7) Possessing spores are legal. <--- Yeah, bummer. Although possessing syringes for scientific or academic use is legal, any association with the intent to grow magic mushrooms might result in some potential problems (ie. Fanaticus getting busted)

6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- WRONG. There are many options available, including using the "Miracle Grow for Vegetables" (found at Home Depot or Lowes) as a replacement.

5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms. Yeah, wrong again. There is significant degradation when one attempts to continue to clone a strain. This can also be witnessed when using agar to continue to improve a strain.

4) There is no way to prevent contamination. There are several steps you can take to prevent contams, most importantly using a pressure cooker (obviously). Yet, the one many people forget is the "OVEN-TEK" and simple homemade glove boxes which can be made for $10 bucks. Your chances of contamination drops dramatically.

3) Cakes are better than Casing UGGGH. Yes, there are many die-hard fruiting people on the shroomery. They will post big pictures and tell you they grew bunches of shrooms using this method. Although they might be right, the AVERAGE person is only going to grow, what? Maximum 4 dried grams per cake. More likely, a lot less. For the same amount of mycelium, you can grow 2x,3x,4x more if using a casing. Don't be scared by an additional step, its worth it!

2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies. This is the one that aggravates me the most. The pftek was developed several years ago as a way to significantly reduce contamination rates (ie. the verm barrier was developed). Yet, this method provides very little yields....

1) AND THE NUMBER ONE MYTH THAT DRIVES ME NUTS.....

Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers.
This is total crap! If you have some intelligence, you can follow many of the bulk grow tek's widely available on the internet with little trouble. Follow the steps step by step and post and questions you have on the shroomery. YES, you CAN jump right into a bulk grow (search for the "Huge Shrooms for Newbies Tek" posted in the Cultivation forum)


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OfflineOOOO
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Registered: 04/21/03
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1488158 - 04/24/03 03:11 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

7 , 8, and 10 aren't myths.

You got 9 on a technicality.

3, 4, 5, 6 aren't exactly what i'd call persistent myths.

I agree with you on 1 and 2.



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Offlinef8L
Triumph

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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: OOOO]
    #1488199 - 04/24/03 03:27 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

if you are going to say something at least back it up a little eh


Edited by f8L (04/24/03 03:28 AM)


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OfflineUnknown
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Registered: 01/07/02
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1488206 - 04/24/03 03:30 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

10) Coldshocking is useful . <--- There is no scientific or even from what I know empirical evidence suggesting any sort of link between cold shocking and an increase in fruiting times.



False.Try it yourself and see.I've seen casings that would not fruit and had no signs of growth for weeks covered with pins just from being cold shocked for 24 hours.
Quote:

8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another . There is no evidence suggesting a link between potency between increased psilocybin/psilocin ratios in a particular strain.



There actually is,I'll let Roadkill or Bluemeanie enlighten you,they know far more about it than me.

Quote:

7) Possessing spores are legal. <--- Yeah, bummer. Although possessing syringes for scientific or academic use is legal, any association with the intent to grow magic mushrooms might result in some potential problems (ie. Fanaticus getting busted)


Fanaticus was growing them inside his house and they caught him,also he showed how to grow them on his site,he was clearly selling them to grow and not for microscopy.That's why he's out of business and many other vendors are still around,they sell them for microscopy,to look at them under a microscope.

Quote:

6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- WRONG. There are many options available, including using the "Miracle Grow for Vegetables" (found at Home Depot or Lowes) as a replacement.



HAHAHAHAHA.Miracle Grow will certainly not get the results of dried and leeched manure straight from the field.


--------------------
The above is just like,my opinion man


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1488374 - 04/24/03 05:32 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The oven tek is a myth.

You don't have to use an incubator. It is usually a little faster.


--------------------


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1488500 - 04/24/03 07:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

10. essential to some species.
9. depends how you define 'need'
8. perhaps - jury's still out. far more variability between different crops of the same strain.
7. depends where you live
6. poo rules, and many composts suck ass.
5. who said they did?
4. another statement assuming we all grow in the toilet bowl at an anthrax factory
3. s'been a long time since anyone said cakes were better. some enjoy the appearance of them.
2. pftek is a useful starting place - not everyone has your confidence.
1. nobody said bulk was 'only' for advanced growers. but until you've grown mycelium the following words may confuse you: spawn pasteurise casing pH aeration shaking ... ?

Sorry, but this is a dumb list of non-starters. don't mean to be a downer, but it is.
Good luck with the newbie-tek in the other thread, though.  :tongue:
 


--------------------
buh


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OfflineExtravagantDream
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: shirley knott]
    #1488502 - 04/24/03 07:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm with ^^^


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: ExtravagantDream]
    #1488503 - 04/24/03 07:52 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

me too


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Offlinemossie
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
    #1488665 - 04/24/03 09:55 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

10)i find cold shocking works and have to go with stamets on that one.

2) yeah i think pf tek sucks too. the ancient MMGG tek is better for newbies i think.
they say to fruit right out of the jars w/ casing on top. less surface area exposed-less chance of contams, deeper substrate, making for big shrooms.


--------------------
Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. -proverbs 15:17


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InvisibleChe_Night_Soil
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1488802 - 04/24/03 11:11 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

9) Shrooms need light . Another one isn't really correct. Shrooms need light in order to initiate pinning (some suggest a few second of light is sufficient). Since shrooms do not require light, this reduces your chances of someone finding your grow. A closed box in the back of your closet is going to draw a lot less attention than a translucent lid with a light shining down on it.



This guy I know has had growth in all kinds of stupid direction, including back toward the substrate, because of inadequate lighting before and after pinning. You make some very good points, just thought I would argue this one :smirk:.

 


--------------------
if(human==autoPart){
for(i=1;i<infinity;i++){
getBorn(mind,soul);
getEdu(mind,soul);
getJob(mind,soul);
retire(mind,soul);
die(mind,soul);
}
}


Edited by Che_Night_Soil (04/24/03 11:14 AM)


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Invisiblecheesenoonions
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Che_Night_Soil]
    #1488953 - 04/24/03 12:15 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A friend has found that not only does light help, but certain spectrums help more than others.
check here I don't know why the oven tek works, plus I thought it was the consensus that there were several things that could be done to prevent contam. All the advance guys state this religiously.


Edited by cheesenoonions (04/24/03 12:19 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1488956 - 04/24/03 12:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

9) Shrooms need light . Another one isn't really correct. Shrooms need light in order to initiate pinning (some suggest a few second of light is sufficient). Since shrooms do not require light, this reduces your chances of someone finding your grow. A closed box in the back of your closet is going to draw a lot less attention than a translucent lid with a light shining down on it.

A closed box in the back of your closet, as a previous reader mentioned, will
also lead to a crop that doesn't know up from adam. What I think you should
focus on is the fact that mushrooms do not need a lot of light, definitely not
12 and absolutely not 24. 1, 2, 3 or 4 hours is plenty to initiate pinning and
keep them on track.

8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another .

You clearly don't each much do you? aside from psilocyn and psilocybin,
there are numerous other active compounds in the fruitbody. All of which,
in varying combinations and ratios lead to a different experience.

Again, I think you're taking the extreme oppposite stance of those
zealots in the community that swear the "Puertos totally blow the doors
off the Amazonians, braaaaa" by stating that there is no variance between
strains.

The middle ground is usually where the truth can be found.

6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- WRONG. There are many options available, including using the "Miracle Grow for Vegetables" (found at Home Depot or Lowes) as a replacement.

I don't even understand what your point is here...is MGforV a soil mix?

If so, I'll concede. Cubensis are adept at adapting to available substrates.

5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms. Yeah, wrong again. There is significant degradation when one attempts to continue to clone a strain. This can also be witnessed when using agar to continue to improve a strain.

How did you go from spore printing to cloning? Again, your point is unclear.

Are you implying that if I grow, print, grow from print and print again, somehow the 3rd generation print won't be viable?

Incorrect.

PF went from print->multispore innoc->fruit->print over and over and over
again until he had a strain that thrived off of BRF and fruited well off of cakes.

Thus the PF Classic was born.

If you continue to print the largest fruit in the bunch, you are collecting spores
that contain a portion of the genetic makeup of the parent, a specimen, that by
it's very stature, indicates that it's genetics have enabled it to thrive in this
particular environment.

4) There is no way to prevent contamination. There are several steps you can take to prevent contams, most importantly using a pressure cooker (obviously). Yet, the one many people forget is the "OVEN-TEK" and simple homemade glove boxes which can be made for $10 bucks. Your chances of contamination drops dramatically.

it's a long, arduous, eternal battle...

3) Cakes are better than Casing UGGGH. Yes, there are many die-hard fruiting people on the shroomery. They will post big pictures and tell you they grew bunches of shrooms using this method. Although they might be right, the AVERAGE person is only going to grow, what? Maximum 4 dried grams per cake. More likely, a lot less. For the same amount of mycelium, you can grow 2x,3x,4x more if using a casing. Don't be scared by an additional step, its worth it!

did anyone ever say that a cake is better than a casing?

I think you're confusing this for #2.

cakes are better than casings for folks with little experience with the process.

which leads me to your next point...

2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies. This is the one that aggravates me the most. The pftek was developed several years ago as a way to significantly reduce contamination rates (ie. the verm barrier was developed). Yet, this method provides very little yields....

To refute this makes you look foolish.

The PF Tek is by far the best for newbies because it is largely low maintenance, tried and true.

It doesn't require fancy materials, elaborate setups or odd ingredients.

Inexepensive and easy to understand, it is the tek of the people!

And to say it is not the best due to yields is arguable.

How do you define best?

cheapest?
easiest?
lowest maintenance?
yield?
error proof?
risk?

there are many things above yield that factor into
what makes one tek better than another.

furthermore, you can get great yields off of pf cakes
by doing simple things to rehydrate.

tried and true.

1) AND THE NUMBER ONE MYTH THAT DRIVES ME NUTS.....

Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers. This is total crap! If you have some intelligence, you can follow many of the bulk grow tek's widely available on the internet with little trouble. Follow the steps step by step and post and questions you have on the shroomery. YES, you CAN jump right into a bulk grow (search for the "Huge Shrooms for Newbies Tek" posted in the Cultivation forum)


sure, but odds are...the newbie's going to do something stupid.

make a small mistake or error in judgement that could have
been avoided with a little experience and understanding of
the intricacies of the mushroom's lifecycle.

Advanced doesn't mean you have to have a college degree in
mycology, f8l. I think a better way to look at it would be that
Bulk methods are better suited for Experienced growers.

in closing, consider this scenario:

you want to try growing mushrooms for the first time, you need
a couple grams for Bonnaroo in 2 months. Failure means
no treats for the festival and certain ridicule from your friends.

you have $40 in your pocket .

you don't have a pc
you don't have a large closet
you don't have access to horse shit
you don't have access to whole grains
you don't have access to straw

what are you going to do?


hmmmmmmmm......

PFTEK!


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Offlinemossie
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: afoaf]
    #1489008 - 04/24/03 12:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

pf tek,cause its the most well known. but IMO, MMGG, fruiting out of the jars is more foolproof. same design, same substrate. and you can fit more substrate per square inch in there if you have a tall terrarium, with all deep substrates.(tall half pints or pints) not to diss pf or his tek, but my foaf's cakes seem to contam easy.(its so exposed) this way they are covered by a jar, thats covered with foil, pinning on top. just my opinion


--------------------
Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. -proverbs 15:17


Edited by mossie (04/24/03 12:44 PM)


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Offlinef8L
Triumph

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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Anonymous]
    #1489159 - 04/24/03 01:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

10) Coldshocking is useful . <--- There is no scientific or even from what I know empirical evidence suggesting any sort of link between cold shocking and an increase in fruiting times.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

False.Try it yourself and see.I've seen casings that would not fruit and had no signs of growth for weeks covered with pins just from being cold shocked for 24 hours.




Evidence? Any mention in any cultivation book? Stamets? Anywhere?

Quote:

8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another . There is no evidence suggesting a link between potency between increased psilocybin/psilocin ratios in a particular strain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There actually is,I'll let Roadkill or Bluemeanie enlighten you,they know far more about it than me.




Yes, please let them enlighten me. There are many factors that might affect potency. But saying that one strain is consistantly more potent than other is just bunk.

Quote:


7) Possessing spores are legal. <--- Yeah, bummer. Although possessing syringes for scientific or academic use is legal, any association with the intent to grow magic mushrooms might result in some potential problems (ie. Fanaticus getting busted)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fanaticus was growing them inside his house and they caught him,also he showed how to grow them on his site,he was clearly selling them to grow and not for microscopy.That's why he's out of business and many other vendors are still around,they sell them for microscopy,to look at them under a microscope.




I'm a law student so I know a little about the law. Of course, studying for microscopy is still legal in most states (as far as I'm aware), but for instance, if one can prove intent (IE. advertising on a shroomery board that promotes magic mushrooms, emails to customers that discuss pschedelic shrooms, generally 'aware' of what his customers are using the syringes for), it is possible for him to get prosecuted. Needless to say, this will probably never happen. After the Fanaticus case is decided there will be some case law behind it.

Quote:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- WRONG. There are many options available, including using the "Miracle Grow for Vegetables" (found at Home Depot or Lowes) as a replacement.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAHAHAHAHA.Miracle Grow will certainly not get the results of dried and leeched manure straight from the field.



Ah, you are too quick to judge. Swim has used this method several times with 80+ (even 100+!) gram DRY yields first flush (yes, imagine that). You can check out my grow log if you want. Also, Swim's friends have used this method with the same success (Using Miracle Grow for Vegatables!), and produced 80+ gram first flush yields.

Don't knock it till ya tried it.


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Offlinemossie
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1489240 - 04/24/03 01:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

10)i find cold shocking works and have to go with stamets on that one.



stamets does talk about cold shocks


--------------------
Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. -proverbs 15:17


Edited by mossie (04/24/03 01:57 PM)


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OfflineOOOO
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1489485 - 04/24/03 02:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"10) Coldshocking is useful . "

This is not a myth. One of the environmenal ques that tells mycelium to fruit is a drop in temperature. Dropping the temperature by 10-15 degrees is beneficial to pin formation.

From pg. 142 of The Mushroom Cultivator:

"The first step in the pinhead initiation process is to lower the substrate and air temperature from the mycelial growth optimum to the fruiting range. This temperature 'shock' is accomplished by ventilation with a large volume of fresh air, thereby lowering the room's temperature to a point 5-20 degrees below the optimum for spawn running"

"9) Shrooms need light ."

Also not a myth.

TMC, pg 147 :
"Mushroom species requiring light for primordia formation are said to be [bphotosensitive. Although light is not necessary to induce fructification in all mushrooms (i.e. Agaricus brunnescens), certain spectra have proven to be stimulatory to pinhead initiation and are critical for the normal development of the fruitbody. Psilocybe cubensis and Pleurotus ostreatus are two such photosensitive species"

"8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another ."

This is not a myth. Potency difference has been scientifically observed.

What Bluemeanie said

"7) Possessing spores are legal."

Unless you live in California or Georgia, this is not a myth. Fanaticus got busted because he was selling the PF tek right along with his spores. They got him on intent. If you were found with spores, a copy of the PF tek, a bunch of brown rice flour, canning jars, and a bag of vermiculite all tucked away in a closet, they might try to get you on intent too. Simply possessing spores however, is completely legal.

"6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows"

Usually we use poo from horses, cows, sheep, buffalo, or elephants. Most grazing animals will work. A farmer is not a grazing animal. I don't think poo from a farmer would work very well.  :tongue:

Seriously though, the poo has to come out of the ass of a grazing animal. It doesn't matter if the animal lives on a farm, a racetrack, a circus, or a zoo. It doesn't matter whether you get it off the farm or in a store. I think we all know that.

Miracle Grow is a fertilizer. It is plant food. It consists of various inorganic salts. It is not suitable as a substitute for dung (unless you're growing vegetables and not mushrooms).

"5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms."

Not a myth. This is selective breeding. When you take a print from a large mushroom, you are getting genetic material from an individual which thrives under a certain set of conditions. After enough generations of fruiting in the same environment and taking spores from individuals which thrive in that environment, you will indeed breed a 'strain' that does very well under those conditions.

"4) There is no way to prevent contamination."

This may be untrue, but I don't think it is something which is widely believed. I think we're all aware that contamination is, for the most part, preventable.

"3) Cakes are better than Casing"

Who says that?

"2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies."

You're right, this is a myth. I think alot of newbies would do well to skip it and start right on grain and casing.

"Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers."

Right. A myth. Anyone who can do whole grains and knows how to case can easily move up to bulk.


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OfflineOOOO
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1489519 - 04/24/03 02:58 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"The oven tek is a myth.

You don't have to use an incubator. It is usually a little faster."

These are both myths, and quite widespread.

The oven tek is ineffective.

Incubators do help, especially in the winter months. They also are good because when you take a casing out of the incubator for fruiting, there is a nice, natural temperature drop, which is good for pinning.

They aren't as essential as they're made out to be though.


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OfflineSpasey
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mossie]
    #1489543 - 04/24/03 03:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Mushrooms do use light to pin. Even the light from a couple of seconds to open your closet and check is enough. Did you ever have a casing with clear sides and have fruits grow on the bottom or sides due to light getting in. Light also makes them grow bigger and healthier. They will grow towards the light, they obviously dont hate it.

Also the PF is very good tek for the reasons that Afoaf mentioned. How many people do you think started with the PF tek...a lot, thats how many. And to add one thing you can get way more than 4 grams from a cake. One cake can have 3 or even 4 fushes and the later flushes are usually bigger than the first. And the cakes are cheap and easy to produce. The other thing is that nobody said cakes were better, but they dont suck. Also many people use cakes as spawn to case into compost. Many people started wiht cakes and then learned and expirimented on to bigger and better cakes or other grain jars.


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Offlinemossie
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Spasey]
    #1489588 - 04/24/03 03:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

what did we all get out of this... a good thread for newbies to read and good all around discussion. nice one f8L


--------------------
Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. -proverbs 15:17


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OfflinePooPs
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mossie]
    #1489759 - 04/24/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)



See how your shrooms grow all over the place... with a bit more light on top... and a bit more air exchange they would grow straight up and not all twisty!

nice flush none the less... but could be better dude!


--------------------


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Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
------------------


Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..


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