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OfflineRaadt
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1493649 - 04/25/03 04:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Dude, how can you call this mycology? You're talking drugology. You're not talking about the fungus kingdom, you're talking about CUBENSIS. Please cultivate at least *1* other specie before you start with this BULLSHIT that you are posting about MYCOLOGY. Just TRY and fruit mex a without cold shocking.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1493680 - 04/25/03 04:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

10) Coldshocking is useful . -- PLEASE try and fruit nameko, or mex a without cold shocking.

9) Shrooms need light . -- Again try what you are speaking of, give your mushrooms a few seconds of light, and then keep them in a dark box. See if your flush is good, if you'd read enough here, you would have seen what happens when people try this.

8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another . Your lack of evidence is also not conclusive, because there are no regular bioassays. I have cultivated ENOUGH mushrooms to know that some strains (treasure coast for example, are not nearly as potent, they do not blue nearly as much when cut through as GT )suggesting lower oxidization levels of psilocin, suggesting to ME lower levels of of the drug. I think there is a difference, but again without a lot of equipment - no way to test it. So your "myth" lacks any evidence.

7) Possessing spores are legal. Oh jesus... posessing spores IS legal, doesn't mean growing them is. If you had a book of spore prints, and a couple of cube prints in it. I can assure you that if there is no evidence of cultivation you would not find any trouble.

6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- Of course this isn't true, but it's easy and free, just because you cannot get it, doesn't mean people are suggesting it as the ONLY way. I've not foudn that at all. Scotts 3n1, mycota compost, a mix of straw and composted manure... etc.

5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms. What you are talking about is completely wrong. There's no link from spore prints to senescence (degradation). The senescense happens when a strain is cloned over and over. The spores do not give you the same genetics as the original fruit. They give you different mating pairs, therefore millions of different strains. All different than that fruit. So what you're saying about cloning stays true, but it has nothing to do with spores.

4) There is no way to prevent contamination. I've never heard anyone say this. They always relate it to their environment. I don't know where you're coming from.

3) Cakes are better than Casing UGGGH. Can you prove what you're saying? Have you run a controlled test? I highly doubt it, you're spewing out more misinformation in this post than i've read in a consolidated post in a very long time.

2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies. PF TEK is easy. That's what people say, that's why they teach people using it. There's very little to fuck up. Where as grains and such you have ratios, etc. Can you name a tek that's easier?

1) AND THE NUMBER ONE MYTH THAT DRIVES ME NUTS.....

Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers. The ONLY one I agree with.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Raadt]
    #1494444 - 04/25/03 11:35 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Good ole' GTs!!


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1501779 - 04/28/03 08:34 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

indeed, without a doubt in my mind more potent than most other cubes. Just the blueing in the stems, when you cut them in half shows the difference. Anyone who doubts me, order GT from spore works, as well as other strains, grow them both, and cut 1 of each fruit in half. See what happens. My "personal" bioassay, confirmed my thoughts.

I could be wrong, I am in no way stating this as fact. But enough experience tells me that i'm not, at least not entirely. Especially compared to a relatively weak strain like TC.


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlinef8L
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Raadt]
    #1501963 - 04/28/03 09:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Just the blueing in the stems




There's another MYTH... Bluing is the result of oxidation in the shroom and has little to do with its potency. Some argue that shrooms that blue 'less' are more potent... something to think about.


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1506918 - 04/30/03 08:16 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Bluing is the result of oxidation in the shroom and has little to do with its potency.


Bluing is the result of psilocybin oxidizing to psilocin,THAT'S something for you to think about


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The above is just like,my opinion man


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OfflinePaid
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1506953 - 04/30/03 09:11 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

lol good thread :-) you have done a lot to destroy these myths, only
problem is there the myths you seem to have invented.


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Paid]
    #1507229 - 04/30/03 12:08 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

HAHAHA


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Anonymous]
    #1507232 - 04/30/03 12:10 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Bluing is the result of oxidation in the shroom and has little to do with its potency.


Bluing is the result of psilocybin oxidizing to psilocin,THAT'S something for you to think about



I think it is more like the psilocin is oxidising into a non-active constituent that causes bluing. psilocybin is fairly stable and is converted into psilocin within the body. hey, i could be way off base, tho.


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Invisiblezeta
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1507246 - 04/30/03 12:18 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)


Most retarded thread ever?
Yes



Votes accepted from (12/31/69 07:00 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



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OfflineRaadt
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1507255 - 04/30/03 12:24 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

ok - try and pay attention, i know this concept is difficult for you to grasp.

If it's the active chemical oxidizing into that blue color, then something that turns more blue, or darker blue, from the same level of damage would (logically) contain....

come on, you can do it, i know you can!

Notice that a large percentage of psilocin containing mushrooms will bruise blue? There's a reason for that, and if you have any experience with ANY other Ps., you will know that the more potent ones turn much darker blue much faster. For example azurescens turn blue nearly as fast as you touch them, and within a few handlings become nearly black. Where as pan subbalteus hardly blue (relatively weakly psilocybian).

Now with that information, you make your own conclusions. I have.



--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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OfflineRaadt
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1507290 - 04/30/03 12:40 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

What you just posted was purely incorrect, not one ounce of truth to it.

Psilocybin does not breakdown into psilocin, psilocin is the unstable molecule which breaks down. Research your statements before posting them. You've now said stamets does not talk about cold shocks (WRONG), and that psilocin breaks down into psilocybin and turns blue(STRIKE 2).


--------------------
Raadt

-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--


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Offlinef8L
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Raadt]
    #1507330 - 04/30/03 12:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

What you just posted was purely incorrect, not one ounce of truth to it.

Psilocybin does not breakdown into psilocin, psilocin is the unstable molecule which breaks down. Research your statements before posting them. You've now said stamets does not talk about cold shocks (WRONG), and that psilocin breaks down into psilocybin and turns blue(STRIKE 2).




I was wrong about stamets and cold shocking being mentioned. Yet I still stand by the fact that for CUBENSIS cold shocking is not very effective. On your second statement, I didn't even say that, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I said "Bluing is the result of oxidation in the shroom and has little to do with its potency."

The myth that I was trying to debunk was that if a shroom turns blue it is the result of more psilocybin in the mushroom. This has not been proven whatsoever and yes, you can 'draw' your own conclusions -- but until proven this is still a myth in my mind.

As for the rest of the 'myths' - I still stand by all of them. I think I should have been clearer in defining my myths to begin with. I have been attacked that the "shrooms needd light" is incorrect because they need light to pin, yet I mentioned this in the post. Also on that same myth people say they receive bigger flushes with light,etc. The myth is simply stating that you DO NOT need light to grow Cubensis except a few seconds to initiate pinning.

There are several of the other myths that have been taken out of context, but I will leave that up to the reader to decide.


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Raadt]
    #1507335 - 04/30/03 12:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psilocybin does not breakdown into psilocin, psilocin is the unstable molecule which breaks down.


Do you mean what I said:
Quote:

Bluing is the result of psilocybin oxidizing to psilocin



Damn,so I'm wrong?


--------------------
The above is just like,my opinion man


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Offlinenewatthis
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: afoaf]
    #1507532 - 04/30/03 02:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

BONNAROOOOO!!!
Shrooms for Bonnaroo is my goal too!
JOY!!!


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Offlinejakeholman
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: newatthis]
    #1507638 - 04/30/03 02:47 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

>>The myth that I was trying to debunk was that if a shroom turns blue it is the result of more psilocybin in the mushroom. This has not been proven whatsoever and yes, you can 'draw' your own conclusions -- but until proven this is still a myth in my mind.

well, actually it has. the strains and species that have been tested for psychoactive content, agree with the fact that the ones with higher contents (up to 2.5% psilocin and psilcybin with psilocybe azurescens) will go much bluer and also much quicker than the aforementioned treasure coast-period.
Jake H


--------------------
The above statement is fictitious and for entertainment purposes only. I do not use or condone the use of illegal substances, nor do I use or condone the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
    #1508076 - 04/30/03 04:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

10) Coldshocking is useful .



Others have already pointed out that coldshocking is needed in MYCOLOGY. But if you want to keep it cube specific, I think you need to go back to the basic of cold shocking and you'll see that it may not apply at all to what you have experienced. Cold shocking is the lowering of substrate temperature to 5-20 deg below OPTIMUM COLONIZATION TEMPS. Most people don't innoculate, colonize, case and fruit at 84 deg F. If you did, you would see that at 84 deg, a "cold shock" is very much helpful with cubensis. Granted, for people who are colonizing their casings at 70-75 deg (most people) a cold shock won't help all that much. That's because they already missed the boat with optimum temps. Cold shocking is very helpful under the circumstances that it was intended for.

Quote:

8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another



I actually agree with you on this one. I actually understand what you meant about bluing as well. It's possible that a shroom have 10% psilocybin, .00001% psilocin, and therefore be very potent but blue very little when damaged. Unlikely, but possible. But potency from strain to strain. I'm not convinced, never will be convinced. Not until a LOT more research is done tying in all factors to potency. Some strains may be more or less affected by temperature, some strains potency may be more or less affected by substrate or even uv light exposure. Until all these studies are done with enough strains to yield comparable data, the juries out.

Personally, yeah I've thought I could tell a difference between strains myself. But it was scewed. Example, I used to think PF was the most potent strain availble. Cuz it was the only one I'd ever grown and I believed PF. Oops a year later I was anti-pf, and swore that PF strain was weak. Years later I realize that my expectations were getting the better of me and that PF is actually a very nice strain.

Also, grew every strain availble up to the point when I quit. Gave literally hundreds of trips to friends and asked them to comment on potency. Everybody had an opinion, but it was never consistent with what I knew about the strain they got and what other people said about the same strain. Blind studies of field bio-assays carry more weight with real world experiences than some extremely limited paramater lab studies. Yes, we all know potency varries, and we know that it varries for lots of reasons, including genetics. That's where the specific knowledge ends and speculation, extrapolation and yes MYTH begin.

IMO, if you say "Golden Teacher is more potent than Treasure Coast" you are perpetuating a myth, or at least an incomplete statement. I've seen too many people swear up and down that TC's were stronger than GT's, even though all they knew was that they were different "batches". Maybe thought they were from different cow fields or states, or whatever. Fact is in hundreds of blind studies, other factors prevented strain from being a consistent factor in percieved (maybe even real) potency.

Quote:

7) Possessing spores are legal.



Ok, I agreed with you. Now I'll bash you. Anybody who says spores are illegal just because they are in a syringe is an idiot. Anybody who thinks that any precedent for that scenario will come from PF's trial is also dumb. PF was growing shrooms people! That's manufacture of a schedule 1! They tacked on a conspiracy charge because they can prove that 1. he did it, and 2. he taught others how to do it. Nothing to do with if a spore syringe is legal or not will come out of this trial.

Quote:

6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows



true, but define "good". I would also say that nothing more than BRF and vermiculite is needed for good grows. But I would also say that no way in hell BRF or miracle grow is going to compete with what I know that field collected manure can produce. If you think otherwise, post some pics of your fertilized shrooms, I'll post some pics of some manure shrooms...doesn't mean fertilizer shrooms may not be perfectly acceptable, but it does mean that some things just can't be beat.
Quote:

5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms. Yeah, wrong again. There is significant degradation when one attempts to continue to clone a strain. This can also be witnessed when using agar to continue to improve a strain.



boy, you're in over your head now, aren't you? got confused a little with the science behind the hobby, huh? I think what you meant is that spore prints from huge shrooms won't necessarily yield huge shrooms in successive generations, and this is entirely true. There is enough diversity in the spores from a print that many of the resultant organisms will be smaller in stature than the parent fruit.
Then you trip over your own words. I'm not even sure what you are talking about clones and agar and stuff, but I'm pretty sure that it's either incorrect, confused, and certainly not a commonly believed myth.
Quote:

4) There is no way to prevent contamination. There are several steps you can take to prevent contams, most importantly using a pressure cooker (obviously). Yet, the one many people forget is the "OVEN-TEK"



1. Show me a home hobyist cultivator who has a 0% contamination rate through all phases of cultivation and I'll show you a liar. Sure, lots can be done to reduce it, but you'll never eradicate contams in a home environment. BTW, I didn't think that anybody ever sugested not working to prevent contams....
2. Oven tek is a myth in and of itself. I looked at mycotopia, but couldn't find the picture. Hippie put a jar on the oven rack, then a source of smoke in the oven. The airstream actually caused the smoke to blow DOWN INTO THE JAR, not up and away from it like the tek claims. You are better off in an open, still air environment than you are in the oven.
Quote:

2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies.



Only a newbie can answer this. When I was a newbie, I failed at grain and fruited on PF tek. I still recomend newb's start with PF tek, it is much simpler. It also allows people to learn even more foolproof teks like invitro cakes and what not. Call it a myth if you want, your opinion counts more than mine on this as you sound like a newb yourself, but I still recomend it, and I've yet to have one complaint from those I've taught the hobby to.
Quote:

Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers.



This is a myth I guess. Depends how you define "advanced". I'd say that someone with a head on their shoulders is more advanced than the average idiot. I'd say that someone who hasn't grown a single fruit, but has a head on their shoulders, the ability to follow directions, and a general understanding of biology would be more "advanced" than many cultivators. But I also know that everybody thinks they are smarter and luckier than they are. Grow some cakes. Case some cakes. Then move on to bulk teks. Unless you want our next exchange to start with your question "is all this green stuff 'sposed to be here?" sure some folks slip through the cracks, but if someone wants to start with the best chances of enjoying the hobby, don't start with bulk substrates.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mycofile]
    #1508235 - 04/30/03 05:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Oh yeah, also wanted to bring up myth #11 that many people quietly perpetuate.

Myth #11: Cakes are only for Newbies. Also worded as: Cakes aren't advanced

A quick look at hippie3's entire career, eatyoualive's flatcakes, and countless other cultivators over the years shows that cakes very much have a place in cultivation. Among beginners and experts alike. Hippie's invitro cakes yield more per unit of volum than any bulk teks I know of. Eatyou's flat cakes are putting some rather experienced grain caser's yields to shame. Sure they aren't as esoteric, complicated or fancy sounding as a lot of "advanced" methods. But depending on how you judge things, they can give the most "advanced" teks a run for their money.

Also, many "advanced" teks are used by various types of cake culture. Cloning, liquid innoculates, additives of all kinds etc can all be applied to cakes in their various forms. In fact, some advanced experiments are easiest tested in cakes. Substrate additives being the best example I can think of right now.

The common myth is that cakes aren't "advanced". I'd like to challenge that and say, choose whatever aspect of growing is most important (time to harvest, work involved, complexity, yield per area, yield per volume, money involved etc) and a cake application can probably perform comparably to "advanced" methods. Well, almost, as long as you aren't looking for 18" tall fruits with 2" thick stems......

PS. most people who've known me over the years may be surprised at this post. Well, I guess being removed from cultivation myself, I'm less opinionated about my way being the best, and cakes and flat cakes are really impressing me at the momment. A little distance often brings a little clarity.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mycofile]
    #1508278 - 04/30/03 05:51 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

>I looked at mycotopia, but couldn't find the picture. Hippie put a jar on the oven
>rack, then a source of smoke in the oven. The airstream actually caused the
>smoke to blow DOWN INTO THE JAR, not up and away from it like the tek claims.

This would have been me, in this thread:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum2&Number=1144051


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Anno]
    #1508305 - 04/30/03 05:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Excellent, thanks anno. I guess hippie just shared your pics, cuz those are the ones I remember. Oven tek busted!

Hope your schools going well, are you an engineer yet or what?


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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