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 f8L
Triumph
Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 397
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN 
#1488133 - 04/24/03 01:01 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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10) Coldshocking is useful . <--- There is no scientific or even from what I know empirical evidence suggesting any sort of link between cold shocking and an increase in fruiting times.
9) Shrooms need light . Another one isn't really correct. Shrooms need light in order to initiate pinning (some suggest a few second of light is sufficient). Since shrooms do not require light, this reduces your chances of someone finding your grow. A closed box in the back of your closet is going to draw a lot less attention than a translucent lid with a light shining down on it.
8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another . There is no evidence suggesting a link between potency between increased psilocybin/psilocin ratios in a particular strain.
7) Possessing spores are legal. <--- Yeah, bummer. Although possessing syringes for scientific or academic use is legal, any association with the intent to grow magic mushrooms might result in some potential problems (ie. Fanaticus getting busted)
6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- WRONG. There are many options available, including using the "Miracle Grow for Vegetables" (found at Home Depot or Lowes) as a replacement.
5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms. Yeah, wrong again. There is significant degradation when one attempts to continue to clone a strain. This can also be witnessed when using agar to continue to improve a strain.
4) There is no way to prevent contamination. There are several steps you can take to prevent contams, most importantly using a pressure cooker (obviously). Yet, the one many people forget is the "OVEN-TEK" and simple homemade glove boxes which can be made for $10 bucks. Your chances of contamination drops dramatically.
3) Cakes are better than Casing UGGGH. Yes, there are many die-hard fruiting people on the shroomery. They will post big pictures and tell you they grew bunches of shrooms using this method. Although they might be right, the AVERAGE person is only going to grow, what? Maximum 4 dried grams per cake. More likely, a lot less. For the same amount of mycelium, you can grow 2x,3x,4x more if using a casing. Don't be scared by an additional step, its worth it!
2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies. This is the one that aggravates me the most. The pftek was developed several years ago as a way to significantly reduce contamination rates (ie. the verm barrier was developed). Yet, this method provides very little yields....
1) AND THE NUMBER ONE MYTH THAT DRIVES ME NUTS.....
Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers. This is total crap! If you have some intelligence, you can follow many of the bulk grow tek's widely available on the internet with little trouble. Follow the steps step by step and post and questions you have on the shroomery. YES, you CAN jump right into a bulk grow (search for the "Huge Shrooms for Newbies Tek" posted in the Cultivation forum)
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OOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1488158 - 04/24/03 01:11 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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7 , 8, and 10 aren't myths.
You got 9 on a technicality.
3, 4, 5, 6 aren't exactly what i'd call persistent myths.
I agree with you on 1 and 2.
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f8L
Triumph
Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 397
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: OOOO]
#1488199 - 04/24/03 01:27 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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if you are going to say something at least back it up a little eh
Edited by f8L (04/24/03 01:28 AM)
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Unknown
Confused,dizzy,wheream I again?
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 380
Loc: MA
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1488206 - 04/24/03 01:30 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
10) Coldshocking is useful . <--- There is no scientific or even from what I know empirical evidence suggesting any sort of link between cold shocking and an increase in fruiting times.
False.Try it yourself and see.I've seen casings that would not fruit and had no signs of growth for weeks covered with pins just from being cold shocked for 24 hours.
Quote:
8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another . There is no evidence suggesting a link between potency between increased psilocybin/psilocin ratios in a particular strain.
There actually is,I'll let Roadkill or Bluemeanie enlighten you,they know far more about it than me.
Quote:
7) Possessing spores are legal. <--- Yeah, bummer. Although possessing syringes for scientific or academic use is legal, any association with the intent to grow magic mushrooms might result in some potential problems (ie. Fanaticus getting busted)
Fanaticus was growing them inside his house and they caught him,also he showed how to grow them on his site,he was clearly selling them to grow and not for microscopy.That's why he's out of business and many other vendors are still around,they sell them for microscopy,to look at them under a microscope.
Quote:
6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- WRONG. There are many options available, including using the "Miracle Grow for Vegetables" (found at Home Depot or Lowes) as a replacement.
HAHAHAHAHA.Miracle Grow will certainly not get the results of dried and leeched manure straight from the field.
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The above is just like,my opinion man
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,751
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 15 minutes, 47 seconds
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1488374 - 04/24/03 03:32 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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The oven tek is a myth.
You don't have to use an incubator. It is usually a little faster.
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This space for rent
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,105
Loc: London
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1488500 - 04/24/03 05:44 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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10. essential to some species.
9. depends how you define 'need'
8. perhaps - jury's still out. far more variability between different crops of the same strain.
7. depends where you live
6. poo rules, and many composts suck ass.
5. who said they did?
4. another statement assuming we all grow in the toilet bowl at an anthrax factory
3. s'been a long time since anyone said cakes were better. some enjoy the appearance of them.
2. pftek is a useful starting place - not everyone has your confidence.
1. nobody said bulk was 'only' for advanced growers. but until you've grown mycelium the following words may confuse you: spawn pasteurise casing pH aeration shaking ... ?
Sorry, but this is a dumb list of non-starters. don't mean to be a downer, but it is.
Good luck with the newbie-tek in the other thread, though. 
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buh
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ExtravagantDream
Beacon in theDarkness
Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 1,271
Loc: Somewhere in the Local Su...
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: shirley knott]
#1488502 - 04/24/03 05:50 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm with ^^^
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 8,334
Loc: Over There
Last seen: 20 days, 22 hours
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me too
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mossie
curandero
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 66
Loc: dung street
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
#1488665 - 04/24/03 07:55 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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10)i find cold shocking works and have to go with stamets on that one.
2) yeah i think pf tek sucks too. the ancient MMGG tek is better for newbies i think.
they say to fruit right out of the jars w/ casing on top. less surface area exposed-less chance of contams, deeper substrate, making for big shrooms.
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Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. -proverbs 15:17
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 Che_Night_Soil
Koinoniphobic
Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 1,533
Loc: Commonslaughtia
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1488802 - 04/24/03 09:11 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
9) Shrooms need light . Another one isn't really correct. Shrooms need light in order to initiate pinning (some suggest a few second of light is sufficient). Since shrooms do not require light, this reduces your chances of someone finding your grow. A closed box in the back of your closet is going to draw a lot less attention than a translucent lid with a light shining down on it.
This guy I know has had growth in all kinds of stupid direction, including back toward the substrate, because of inadequate lighting before and after pinning. You make some very good points, just thought I would argue this one  .
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if(human==autoPart){
for(i=1;i<infinity;i++){
getBorn(mind,soul);
getEdu(mind,soul);
getJob(mind,soul);
retire(mind,soul);
die(mind,soul);
}
}
Edited by Che_Night_Soil (04/24/03 09:14 AM)
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cheesenoonions
??????????????
Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 584
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Che_Night_Soil]
#1488953 - 04/24/03 10:15 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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A friend has found that not only does light help, but certain spectrums help more than others.
check here I don't know why the oven tek works, plus I thought it was the consensus that there were several things that could be done to prevent contam. All the advance guys state this religiously.
Edited by cheesenoonions (04/24/03 10:19 AM)
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1488956 - 04/24/03 10:17 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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9) Shrooms need light . Another one isn't really correct. Shrooms need light in order to initiate pinning (some suggest a few second of light is sufficient). Since shrooms do not require light, this reduces your chances of someone finding your grow. A closed box in the back of your closet is going to draw a lot less attention than a translucent lid with a light shining down on it.
A closed box in the back of your closet, as a previous reader mentioned, will
also lead to a crop that doesn't know up from adam. What I think you should
focus on is the fact that mushrooms do not need a lot of light, definitely not
12 and absolutely not 24. 1, 2, 3 or 4 hours is plenty to initiate pinning and
keep them on track.
8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another .
You clearly don't each much do you? aside from psilocyn and psilocybin,
there are numerous other active compounds in the fruitbody. All of which,
in varying combinations and ratios lead to a different experience.
Again, I think you're taking the extreme oppposite stance of those
zealots in the community that swear the "Puertos totally blow the doors
off the Amazonians, braaaaa" by stating that there is no variance between
strains.
The middle ground is usually where the truth can be found.
6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- WRONG. There are many options available, including using the "Miracle Grow for Vegetables" (found at Home Depot or Lowes) as a replacement.
I don't even understand what your point is here...is MGforV a soil mix?
If so, I'll concede. Cubensis are adept at adapting to available substrates.
5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms. Yeah, wrong again. There is significant degradation when one attempts to continue to clone a strain. This can also be witnessed when using agar to continue to improve a strain.
How did you go from spore printing to cloning? Again, your point is unclear.
Are you implying that if I grow, print, grow from print and print again, somehow the 3rd generation print won't be viable?
Incorrect.
PF went from print->multispore innoc->fruit->print over and over and over
again until he had a strain that thrived off of BRF and fruited well off of cakes.
Thus the PF Classic was born.
If you continue to print the largest fruit in the bunch, you are collecting spores
that contain a portion of the genetic makeup of the parent, a specimen, that by
it's very stature, indicates that it's genetics have enabled it to thrive in this
particular environment.
4) There is no way to prevent contamination. There are several steps you can take to prevent contams, most importantly using a pressure cooker (obviously). Yet, the one many people forget is the "OVEN-TEK" and simple homemade glove boxes which can be made for $10 bucks. Your chances of contamination drops dramatically.
it's a long, arduous, eternal battle...
3) Cakes are better than Casing UGGGH. Yes, there are many die-hard fruiting people on the shroomery. They will post big pictures and tell you they grew bunches of shrooms using this method. Although they might be right, the AVERAGE person is only going to grow, what? Maximum 4 dried grams per cake. More likely, a lot less. For the same amount of mycelium, you can grow 2x,3x,4x more if using a casing. Don't be scared by an additional step, its worth it!
did anyone ever say that a cake is better than a casing?
I think you're confusing this for #2.
cakes are better than casings for folks with little experience with the process.
which leads me to your next point...
2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies. This is the one that aggravates me the most. The pftek was developed several years ago as a way to significantly reduce contamination rates (ie. the verm barrier was developed). Yet, this method provides very little yields....
To refute this makes you look foolish.
The PF Tek is by far the best for newbies because it is largely low maintenance, tried and true.
It doesn't require fancy materials, elaborate setups or odd ingredients.
Inexepensive and easy to understand, it is the tek of the people!
And to say it is not the best due to yields is arguable.
How do you define best?
cheapest?
easiest?
lowest maintenance?
yield?
error proof?
risk?
there are many things above yield that factor into
what makes one tek better than another.
furthermore, you can get great yields off of pf cakes
by doing simple things to rehydrate.
tried and true.
1) AND THE NUMBER ONE MYTH THAT DRIVES ME NUTS.....
Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers. This is total crap! If you have some intelligence, you can follow many of the bulk grow tek's widely available on the internet with little trouble. Follow the steps step by step and post and questions you have on the shroomery. YES, you CAN jump right into a bulk grow (search for the "Huge Shrooms for Newbies Tek" posted in the Cultivation forum)
sure, but odds are...the newbie's going to do something stupid.
make a small mistake or error in judgement that could have
been avoided with a little experience and understanding of
the intricacies of the mushroom's lifecycle.
Advanced doesn't mean you have to have a college degree in
mycology, f8l. I think a better way to look at it would be that
Bulk methods are better suited for Experienced growers.
in closing, consider this scenario:
you want to try growing mushrooms for the first time, you need
a couple grams for Bonnaroo in 2 months. Failure means
no treats for the festival and certain ridicule from your friends.
you have $40 in your pocket .
you don't have a pc
you don't have a large closet
you don't have access to horse shit
you don't have access to whole grains
you don't have access to straw
what are you going to do?
hmmmmmmmm......
PFTEK!
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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mossie
curandero
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 66
Loc: dung street
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: afoaf]
#1489008 - 04/24/03 10:39 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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pf tek,cause its the most well known. but IMO, MMGG, fruiting out of the jars is more foolproof. same design, same substrate. and you can fit more substrate per square inch in there if you have a tall terrarium, with all deep substrates.(tall half pints or pints) not to diss pf or his tek, but my foaf's cakes seem to contam easy.(its so exposed) this way they are covered by a jar, thats covered with foil, pinning on top. just my opinion
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Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. -proverbs 15:17
Edited by mossie (04/24/03 10:44 AM)
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f8L
Triumph
Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 397
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Anonymous]
#1489159 - 04/24/03 11:34 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
10) Coldshocking is useful . <--- There is no scientific or even from what I know empirical evidence suggesting any sort of link between cold shocking and an increase in fruiting times.
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False.Try it yourself and see.I've seen casings that would not fruit and had no signs of growth for weeks covered with pins just from being cold shocked for 24 hours.
Evidence? Any mention in any cultivation book? Stamets? Anywhere?
Quote:
8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another . There is no evidence suggesting a link between potency between increased psilocybin/psilocin ratios in a particular strain.
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There actually is,I'll let Roadkill or Bluemeanie enlighten you,they know far more about it than me.
Yes, please let them enlighten me. There are many factors that might affect potency. But saying that one strain is consistantly more potent than other is just bunk.
Quote:
7) Possessing spores are legal. <--- Yeah, bummer. Although possessing syringes for scientific or academic use is legal, any association with the intent to grow magic mushrooms might result in some potential problems (ie. Fanaticus getting busted)
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Fanaticus was growing them inside his house and they caught him,also he showed how to grow them on his site,he was clearly selling them to grow and not for microscopy.That's why he's out of business and many other vendors are still around,they sell them for microscopy,to look at them under a microscope.
I'm a law student so I know a little about the law. Of course, studying for microscopy is still legal in most states (as far as I'm aware), but for instance, if one can prove intent (IE. advertising on a shroomery board that promotes magic mushrooms, emails to customers that discuss pschedelic shrooms, generally 'aware' of what his customers are using the syringes for), it is possible for him to get prosecuted. Needless to say, this will probably never happen. After the Fanaticus case is decided there will be some case law behind it.
Quote:
Quote:
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6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- WRONG. There are many options available, including using the "Miracle Grow for Vegetables" (found at Home Depot or Lowes) as a replacement.
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HAHAHAHAHA.Miracle Grow will certainly not get the results of dried and leeched manure straight from the field.
Ah, you are too quick to judge. Swim has used this method several times with 80+ (even 100+!) gram DRY yields first flush (yes, imagine that). You can check out my grow log if you want. Also, Swim's friends have used this method with the same success (Using Miracle Grow for Vegatables!), and produced 80+ gram first flush yields.
Don't knock it till ya tried it.
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mossie
curandero
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 66
Loc: dung street
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1489240 - 04/24/03 11:56 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
10)i find cold shocking works and have to go with stamets on that one.
stamets does talk about cold shocks
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Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. -proverbs 15:17
Edited by mossie (04/24/03 11:57 AM)
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OOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1489485 - 04/24/03 12:51 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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"10) Coldshocking is useful . "
This is not a myth. One of the environmenal ques that tells mycelium to fruit is a drop in temperature. Dropping the temperature by 10-15 degrees is beneficial to pin formation.
From pg. 142 of The Mushroom Cultivator:
"The first step in the pinhead initiation process is to lower the substrate and air temperature from the mycelial growth optimum to the fruiting range. This temperature 'shock' is accomplished by ventilation with a large volume of fresh air, thereby lowering the room's temperature to a point 5-20 degrees below the optimum for spawn running"
"9) Shrooms need light ."
Also not a myth.
TMC, pg 147 :
"Mushroom species requiring light for primordia formation are said to be [bphotosensitive. Although light is not necessary to induce fructification in all mushrooms (i.e. Agaricus brunnescens), certain spectra have proven to be stimulatory to pinhead initiation and are critical for the normal development of the fruitbody. Psilocybe cubensis and Pleurotus ostreatus are two such photosensitive species"
"8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another ."
This is not a myth. Potency difference has been scientifically observed.
What Bluemeanie said
"7) Possessing spores are legal."
Unless you live in California or Georgia, this is not a myth. Fanaticus got busted because he was selling the PF tek right along with his spores. They got him on intent. If you were found with spores, a copy of the PF tek, a bunch of brown rice flour, canning jars, and a bag of vermiculite all tucked away in a closet, they might try to get you on intent too. Simply possessing spores however, is completely legal.
"6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows"
Usually we use poo from horses, cows, sheep, buffalo, or elephants. Most grazing animals will work. A farmer is not a grazing animal. I don't think poo from a farmer would work very well.
Seriously though, the poo has to come out of the ass of a grazing animal. It doesn't matter if the animal lives on a farm, a racetrack, a circus, or a zoo. It doesn't matter whether you get it off the farm or in a store. I think we all know that.
Miracle Grow is a fertilizer. It is plant food. It consists of various inorganic salts. It is not suitable as a substitute for dung (unless you're growing vegetables and not mushrooms).
"5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms."
Not a myth. This is selective breeding. When you take a print from a large mushroom, you are getting genetic material from an individual which thrives under a certain set of conditions. After enough generations of fruiting in the same environment and taking spores from individuals which thrive in that environment, you will indeed breed a 'strain' that does very well under those conditions.
"4) There is no way to prevent contamination."
This may be untrue, but I don't think it is something which is widely believed. I think we're all aware that contamination is, for the most part, preventable.
"3) Cakes are better than Casing"
Who says that?
"2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies."
You're right, this is a myth. I think alot of newbies would do well to skip it and start right on grain and casing.
"Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers."
Right. A myth. Anyone who can do whole grains and knows how to case can easily move up to bulk.
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OOOO
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/03
Posts: 125
Last seen: 19 years, 3 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1489519 - 04/24/03 12:58 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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"The oven tek is a myth.
You don't have to use an incubator. It is usually a little faster."
These are both myths, and quite widespread.
The oven tek is ineffective.
Incubators do help, especially in the winter months. They also are good because when you take a casing out of the incubator for fruiting, there is a nice, natural temperature drop, which is good for pinning.
They aren't as essential as they're made out to be though.
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Spasey
newbie
Registered: 04/08/03
Posts: 27
Loc: MIlky Way
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mossie]
#1489543 - 04/24/03 01:04 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mushrooms do use light to pin. Even the light from a couple of seconds to open your closet and check is enough. Did you ever have a casing with clear sides and have fruits grow on the bottom or sides due to light getting in. Light also makes them grow bigger and healthier. They will grow towards the light, they obviously dont hate it.
Also the PF is very good tek for the reasons that Afoaf mentioned. How many people do you think started with the PF tek...a lot, thats how many. And to add one thing you can get way more than 4 grams from a cake. One cake can have 3 or even 4 fushes and the later flushes are usually bigger than the first. And the cakes are cheap and easy to produce. The other thing is that nobody said cakes were better, but they dont suck. Also many people use cakes as spawn to case into compost. Many people started wiht cakes and then learned and expirimented on to bigger and better cakes or other grain jars.
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mossie
curandero
Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 66
Loc: dung street
Last seen: 21 years, 4 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Spasey]
#1489588 - 04/24/03 01:17 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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what did we all get out of this... a good thread for newbies to read and good all around discussion. nice one f8L
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Better is a dinner of herbs where love is, than a stalled ox and hatred therewith. -proverbs 15:17
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PooPs
What's thisfor???
Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 4,510
Loc: Stirrin up the pile!
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mossie]
#1489759 - 04/24/03 02:12 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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See how your shrooms grow all over the place... with a bit more light on top... and a bit more air exchange they would grow straight up and not all twisty!
nice flush none the less... but could be better dude!
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Sniff, Sniff... What's that smell???... ohhhhh.!!
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Pot Free for another : nevermind.. never made it..
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Unknown
Confused,dizzy,wheream I again?
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 380
Loc: MA
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1489851 - 04/24/03 02:28 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ah, you are too quick to judge. Swim has used this method several times with 80+ (even 100+!) gram DRY yields first flush (yes, imagine that). You can check out my grow log if you want. Also, Swim's friends have used this method with the same success (Using Miracle Grow for Vegatables!), and produced 80+ gram first flush yields.
Don't knock it till ya tried it
Okay,Miracle Grow will NEVER be equal to dried and leeched manure straight from the field,I have tried it,so therefor I will "knock it" all to hell,Miracle grow is nothing close to manure
Quote:
8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another
This is a qoute from Teonan:
"Potency varies from mushroom to mushroom within a single flush from a single strain of a single Race that has a range of potency.
Race to race ( GT to EQ) there will be variability as well. "
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The above is just like,my opinion man
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cheesenoonions
??????????????
Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 584
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Anonymous]
#1490141 - 04/24/03 03:46 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Perhaps the difference is not the strain, but the supplier of the spores. If, as most people here are saying, we are to believe that selecting the best mushroom from your batch will propagate better genes, and genes are also responsible for potency then we can assume that potencey is also a result of selection. If the "selector" is not selecting the most potent mushrooms from his flush (this would be hard to do) then the most potency potential will also not get propagated.
Why does it even matter which mushroom you pick anyway? If you started from an agar wedge the mycelial cells should be all genetically identical. I think if you are starting from a syringe this may be a problem only because you will get alot of different genotypes flushing in your cake/casing. So the logic is that you pick the best mushroom because it is the best genotype, but if you use an agar wedge from already very rhizomorphic plates, then why would it matter. Is there some recombination going on somewhere between the agar wedge and spore production that I don't know about?
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Bob_J
Spaced outRabbit
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: PooPs]
#1490483 - 04/24/03 05:23 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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afoaf gets 8g dry per cake. in fact it may very well be at the 9-10 dry gram range now. he also keeps them in a closet and brings them out everyday (sometimes he forgets and its every 2 days) for light. there exposed for varying times....sometimes for hours (5-6), or even a couple hours, but sometimes its just to pick them (few minutes). he fans them whenever he brings them out. he is by no means a pro. the strain is EQ.
--------------------
"With insomnia your never really asleep, and your never really awake"
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shirley knott
not my real name
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: cheesenoonions]
#1490555 - 04/24/03 05:47 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you started from an agar wedge the mycelial cells should be all genetically identical
i don't think so, from what i've read - you need a clone from a fruit for that i think (not from experience, though, so i may be wrong!)
--------------------
buh
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: shirley knott]
#1490731 - 04/24/03 06:39 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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depends on the the wedge was cultured. If via spores then no, although it can be sectored until an isolate is obtained. if the wedge is cultured with a fruitbody then yes, you can count on genetics identical to the fruit used to start the plate.
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Mike Elium
.the Mycelium
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1490804 - 04/24/03 07:03 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe you should rename this thread the
"10 MOST CONTROVERSIAL MYCOLOGY TOPICS COUNTDOWN"
or alternatively,
"10 MYCOLOGY TOPICS THAT WILL REALLY GET SHROOMERITES CRANKED UP"
but actually it IS quite interesting to see opinions on these oft-debated topics.....
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your inside is out, and your outside is in.
Edited by Mike Elium (04/24/03 07:11 PM)
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cheesenoonions
??????????????
Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 584
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
#1491221 - 04/24/03 09:33 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was talking about after you get the isolate. Assuming your wedge is genetically identical, which I am assuming will happen after many agar transfers, your grain jar should be genetically uniform, shouldn't it?
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fleshofgods
SpiritualVisionary
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: PooPs]
#1491225 - 04/24/03 09:34 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
the AVERAGE person is only going to grow, what? Maximum 4 dried grams per cake.
lol
Quote:
2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies. This is the one that aggravates me the most. The pftek was developed several years ago as a way to significantly reduce contamination rates (ie. the verm barrier was developed). Yet, this method provides very little yields....
that doesnt explain why it isnt the best method for newbies.
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Holler!
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jakeholman
crotch rocketsrule!
Registered: 02/24/03
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: fleshofgods]
#1491582 - 04/24/03 11:51 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Did you ever have a casing with clear sides and have fruits grow on the bottom or sides due to light getting in. Light also makes them grow bigger and healthier. They will grow towards the light, they obviously dont hate it.
this is for spacay way back when---there have been growers with graphs showing their grow rates compared to lighting times, and the grow rate with light overtop of the terrarium were significantly and consistently lower than without light. light is needed only for primorida foundation.
Jake H
P.S.-definetely a good thread for controversial issues 
--------------------
The above statement is fictitious and for entertainment purposes only. I do not use or condone the use of illegal substances, nor do I use or condone the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
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B4rK0d3
Bromeo
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: jakeholman]
#1492073 - 04/25/03 03:58 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Pertaining to mushroom species not being any more/less potent than the other:
I disagree - http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: cheesenoonions]
#1492148 - 04/25/03 06:14 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I was talking about after you get the isolate. Assuming your wedge is genetically identical, which I am assuming will happen after many agar transfers, your grain jar should be genetically uniform, shouldn't it?
yes. in a multispore there are many genetic attributes available. when nutrients are given they basically race and start ousting one another. on agar this becomes apparent in sectoring. sectoring is visible lines dividing the different "strains". isolating involves removing specific sectors and starting new agar plates with the sector. you continue to do this until it no longer sectors. this is an isolate. another way to isolate is to take a piece of a fruitbody and use that to start an agar plate. this, by default, will not sector. if you inocculate a grain jar with an agar isolate then that jar will mainatain the genetics of the "strain" on the agar. the fruits will be identical (as far as fruiting requirements, flush patterns go) .
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fleshofgods
SpiritualVisionary
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
#1492226 - 04/25/03 07:21 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pertaining to mushroom species not being any more/less potent than the other:
I disagree - http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info4.shtml
you are talking about different species . . . he was talking about different strains within a species. And all strains are in fact around the same potency although some are more potent because of what you grow them on. Somebody starting out grew some on a pf cake and didnt like the potency so then dropped that strain because of that and did a wbs/dung casing with a different strain and BAM! they have a "more potent strain"
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Holler!
Edited by fleshofgods (04/25/03 07:25 AM)
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: fleshofgods]
#1492242 - 04/25/03 07:28 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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actually you are right and wrong (all in speculation of course). take strain A and grow it on BRF and strain B and grow it on BRF. strain A comes out more potent than strain B (assuming all other factors are constant). Take the same strains and grow them out on WBS in place of BRF and watch strain B come out more potent this time. What I'm getting at is that different strains will have a maximum potency dependant upon many factors with substrate being one of the more prominent ones. Potency is truly an ambigous term for there is no definiteive method for the home grower to actually determine the exact ratios of actives to mass. IOW, it's a pointless argument.
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
#1492358 - 04/25/03 08:30 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nice try there but your myths are in some cases actually correct statements.
Firstly it is common knowledge that cold shocking is requried for many species of mushroom - although not particularly Ps.Cubensis. If you look at any cultivation book you will find information on temperature parameters for species and here it will nearly always demonstrate that a colder fruiting temp is required from the ideal temps during incubation. Therefore a cold-shock in terms of a colder fruiting temperature is required.
Secondly as someone has mentioned studies by Stivje and Demeijer in 1993 demonstrated a consistant variation in psilocin content per weight of two spore-races of cubensis - (what was described in the study as an Amazonian with .50% psilocin and Mexican with .33% psilocin). These were ofcourse grown on the same substrate under the same controlled conditions.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
#1492419 - 04/25/03 08:50 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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I find it laughable that our champion of anti-mythology
seems to have vanished after strong, intelligent arguments
to refute his *truths* have been provided.
I love newbies...
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1492552 - 04/25/03 09:38 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
(what was described in the study as an Amazonian with .50% psilocin and Mexican with .33% psilocin). These were ofcourse grown on the same substrate under the same controlled conditions.
my point exactly. this test is inconclusive as there are a myriad of substrates and other factors which will produce completely different results. it would be nice if we did have an economical means of verifying actives content because then we could, as a group, eventually compile a database of sorts that shows what conditions are optimal for a given strain. i had it in my mind to do this singlehandedly but it is quite impossible for me to determine actives content.
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: debianlinux]
#1492578 - 04/25/03 09:46 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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'my point exactly. this test is inconclusive as there are a myriad of substrates and other factors which will produce completely different results. it would be nice if we did have an economical means of verifying actives content because then we could, as a group, eventually compile a database of sorts that shows what conditions are optimal for a given strain. i had it in my mind to do this singlehandedly but it is quite impossible for me to determine actives content. '
From my reading of the study it seems pretty conclusive to me. They have used the same type of substrate and demonstrated consistant results.
Gartz has done studies that also demonstrate that substrates differ in tryptophan contents, and thus the mushrooms grown off these will differ significantly in potency.
I would say that its the best study around on the subject. and it is on par with my own experiences.
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1492627 - 04/25/03 10:01 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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my point was that it is quite likely that the active content % would have been different and possibly reversed had they tested the same strains on a different substrates. sure it is conclusive for that substrate:strian combination but does not offer conclusive proof that strain A is always more potent than strain B.
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f8L
Triumph
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: afoaf]
#1492948 - 04/25/03 11:38 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I find it laughable that our champion of anti-mythology
seems to have vanished after strong, intelligent arguments
to refute his *truths* have been provided.
I love newbies...
Haha. Finals suck, I will have time to answer with proper refutations this weekend.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1493632 - 04/25/03 02:39 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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just giving you a proper ribbing!
good luck on exams.
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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Raadt
nicht
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1493649 - 04/25/03 02:43 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Dude, how can you call this mycology? You're talking drugology. You're not talking about the fungus kingdom, you're talking about CUBENSIS. Please cultivate at least *1* other specie before you start with this BULLSHIT that you are posting about MYCOLOGY. Just TRY and fruit mex a without cold shocking.
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Raadt
-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--
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Raadt
nicht
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1493680 - 04/25/03 02:55 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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10) Coldshocking is useful . -- PLEASE try and fruit nameko, or mex a without cold shocking.
9) Shrooms need light . -- Again try what you are speaking of, give your mushrooms a few seconds of light, and then keep them in a dark box. See if your flush is good, if you'd read enough here, you would have seen what happens when people try this.
8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another . Your lack of evidence is also not conclusive, because there are no regular bioassays. I have cultivated ENOUGH mushrooms to know that some strains (treasure coast for example, are not nearly as potent, they do not blue nearly as much when cut through as GT )suggesting lower oxidization levels of psilocin, suggesting to ME lower levels of of the drug. I think there is a difference, but again without a lot of equipment - no way to test it. So your "myth" lacks any evidence.
7) Possessing spores are legal. Oh jesus... posessing spores IS legal, doesn't mean growing them is. If you had a book of spore prints, and a couple of cube prints in it. I can assure you that if there is no evidence of cultivation you would not find any trouble.
6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows <- Of course this isn't true, but it's easy and free, just because you cannot get it, doesn't mean people are suggesting it as the ONLY way. I've not foudn that at all. Scotts 3n1, mycota compost, a mix of straw and composted manure... etc.
5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms. What you are talking about is completely wrong. There's no link from spore prints to senescence (degradation). The senescense happens when a strain is cloned over and over. The spores do not give you the same genetics as the original fruit. They give you different mating pairs, therefore millions of different strains. All different than that fruit. So what you're saying about cloning stays true, but it has nothing to do with spores.
4) There is no way to prevent contamination. I've never heard anyone say this. They always relate it to their environment. I don't know where you're coming from.
3) Cakes are better than Casing UGGGH. Can you prove what you're saying? Have you run a controlled test? I highly doubt it, you're spewing out more misinformation in this post than i've read in a consolidated post in a very long time.
2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies. PF TEK is easy. That's what people say, that's why they teach people using it. There's very little to fuck up. Where as grains and such you have ratios, etc. Can you name a tek that's easier?
1) AND THE NUMBER ONE MYTH THAT DRIVES ME NUTS.....
Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers. The ONLY one I agree with.
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Raadt
-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--
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Zen Peddler
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 6,379
Loc: orbit
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Raadt]
#1494444 - 04/25/03 09:35 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good ole' GTs!!
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Raadt
nicht
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Zen Peddler]
#1501779 - 04/28/03 06:34 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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indeed, without a doubt in my mind more potent than most other cubes. Just the blueing in the stems, when you cut them in half shows the difference. Anyone who doubts me, order GT from spore works, as well as other strains, grow them both, and cut 1 of each fruit in half. See what happens. My "personal" bioassay, confirmed my thoughts.
I could be wrong, I am in no way stating this as fact. But enough experience tells me that i'm not, at least not entirely. Especially compared to a relatively weak strain like TC.
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Raadt
-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--
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f8L
Triumph
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Posts: 397
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Raadt]
#1501963 - 04/28/03 07:46 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Just the blueing in the stems
There's another MYTH... Bluing is the result of oxidation in the shroom and has little to do with its potency. Some argue that shrooms that blue 'less' are more potent... something to think about.
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Unknown
Confused,dizzy,wheream I again?
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 380
Loc: MA
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1506918 - 04/30/03 06:16 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bluing is the result of oxidation in the shroom and has little to do with its potency.
Bluing is the result of psilocybin oxidizing to psilocin,THAT'S something for you to think about
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The above is just like,my opinion man
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Paid
Pict
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Posts: 5,376
Loc: Zone ate
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1506953 - 04/30/03 07:11 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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lol good thread :-) you have done a lot to destroy these myths, only
problem is there the myths you seem to have invented.
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Unknown
Confused,dizzy,wheream I again?
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 380
Loc: MA
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Paid]
#1507229 - 04/30/03 10:08 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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HAHAHA
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The above is just like,my opinion man
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debianlinux
Myconerd - DBK
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Anonymous]
#1507232 - 04/30/03 10:10 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
Bluing is the result of oxidation in the shroom and has little to do with its potency.
Bluing is the result of psilocybin oxidizing to psilocin,THAT'S something for you to think about
I think it is more like the psilocin is oxidising into a non-active constituent that causes bluing. psilocybin is fairly stable and is converted into psilocin within the body. hey, i could be way off base, tho.
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zeta
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1507246 - 04/30/03 10:18 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Raadt
nicht
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1507255 - 04/30/03 10:24 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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ok - try and pay attention, i know this concept is difficult for you to grasp.
If it's the active chemical oxidizing into that blue color, then something that turns more blue, or darker blue, from the same level of damage would (logically) contain....
come on, you can do it, i know you can!
Notice that a large percentage of psilocin containing mushrooms will bruise blue? There's a reason for that, and if you have any experience with ANY other Ps., you will know that the more potent ones turn much darker blue much faster. For example azurescens turn blue nearly as fast as you touch them, and within a few handlings become nearly black. Where as pan subbalteus hardly blue (relatively weakly psilocybian).
Now with that information, you make your own conclusions. I have.
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Raadt
-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--
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Raadt
nicht
Registered: 06/07/02
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Loc: azurescending
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1507290 - 04/30/03 10:40 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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What you just posted was purely incorrect, not one ounce of truth to it.
Psilocybin does not breakdown into psilocin, psilocin is the unstable molecule which breaks down. Research your statements before posting them. You've now said stamets does not talk about cold shocks (WRONG), and that psilocin breaks down into psilocybin and turns blue(STRIKE 2).
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Raadt
-- The information I provide is only information from readings, growing of gourmet mushrooms, and second hand stories--
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f8L
Triumph
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Posts: 397
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Raadt]
#1507330 - 04/30/03 10:54 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
What you just posted was purely incorrect, not one ounce of truth to it.
Psilocybin does not breakdown into psilocin, psilocin is the unstable molecule which breaks down. Research your statements before posting them. You've now said stamets does not talk about cold shocks (WRONG), and that psilocin breaks down into psilocybin and turns blue(STRIKE 2).
I was wrong about stamets and cold shocking being mentioned. Yet I still stand by the fact that for CUBENSIS cold shocking is not very effective. On your second statement, I didn't even say that, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about. I said "Bluing is the result of oxidation in the shroom and has little to do with its potency."
The myth that I was trying to debunk was that if a shroom turns blue it is the result of more psilocybin in the mushroom. This has not been proven whatsoever and yes, you can 'draw' your own conclusions -- but until proven this is still a myth in my mind.
As for the rest of the 'myths' - I still stand by all of them. I think I should have been clearer in defining my myths to begin with. I have been attacked that the "shrooms needd light" is incorrect because they need light to pin, yet I mentioned this in the post. Also on that same myth people say they receive bigger flushes with light,etc. The myth is simply stating that you DO NOT need light to grow Cubensis except a few seconds to initiate pinning.
There are several of the other myths that have been taken out of context, but I will leave that up to the reader to decide.
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Unknown
Confused,dizzy,wheream I again?
Registered: 01/06/02
Posts: 380
Loc: MA
Last seen: 20 years, 5 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Raadt]
#1507335 - 04/30/03 10:56 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilocybin does not breakdown into psilocin, psilocin is the unstable molecule which breaks down.
Do you mean what I said: Quote:
Bluing is the result of psilocybin oxidizing to psilocin
Damn,so I'm wrong?
--------------------
The above is just like,my opinion man
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newatthis
Stranger
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 Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: afoaf]
#1507532 - 04/30/03 12:19 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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BONNAROOOOO!!!
Shrooms for Bonnaroo is my goal too!
JOY!!!
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jakeholman
crotch rocketsrule!
Registered: 02/24/03
Posts: 503
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: newatthis]
#1507638 - 04/30/03 12:47 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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>>The myth that I was trying to debunk was that if a shroom turns blue it is the result of more psilocybin in the mushroom. This has not been proven whatsoever and yes, you can 'draw' your own conclusions -- but until proven this is still a myth in my mind.
well, actually it has. the strains and species that have been tested for psychoactive content, agree with the fact that the ones with higher contents (up to 2.5% psilocin and psilcybin with psilocybe azurescens) will go much bluer and also much quicker than the aforementioned treasure coast-period.
Jake H
--------------------
The above statement is fictitious and for entertainment purposes only. I do not use or condone the use of illegal substances, nor do I use or condone the use of legal substances in an illegal manner.
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 2,336
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: f8L]
#1508076 - 04/30/03 02:55 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
10) Coldshocking is useful .
Others have already pointed out that coldshocking is needed in MYCOLOGY. But if you want to keep it cube specific, I think you need to go back to the basic of cold shocking and you'll see that it may not apply at all to what you have experienced. Cold shocking is the lowering of substrate temperature to 5-20 deg below OPTIMUM COLONIZATION TEMPS. Most people don't innoculate, colonize, case and fruit at 84 deg F. If you did, you would see that at 84 deg, a "cold shock" is very much helpful with cubensis. Granted, for people who are colonizing their casings at 70-75 deg (most people) a cold shock won't help all that much. That's because they already missed the boat with optimum temps. Cold shocking is very helpful under the circumstances that it was intended for.
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8) One cubensis strain is more potent than another
I actually agree with you on this one. I actually understand what you meant about bluing as well. It's possible that a shroom have 10% psilocybin, .00001% psilocin, and therefore be very potent but blue very little when damaged. Unlikely, but possible. But potency from strain to strain. I'm not convinced, never will be convinced. Not until a LOT more research is done tying in all factors to potency. Some strains may be more or less affected by temperature, some strains potency may be more or less affected by substrate or even uv light exposure. Until all these studies are done with enough strains to yield comparable data, the juries out.
Personally, yeah I've thought I could tell a difference between strains myself. But it was scewed. Example, I used to think PF was the most potent strain availble. Cuz it was the only one I'd ever grown and I believed PF. Oops a year later I was anti-pf, and swore that PF strain was weak. Years later I realize that my expectations were getting the better of me and that PF is actually a very nice strain.
Also, grew every strain availble up to the point when I quit. Gave literally hundreds of trips to friends and asked them to comment on potency. Everybody had an opinion, but it was never consistent with what I knew about the strain they got and what other people said about the same strain. Blind studies of field bio-assays carry more weight with real world experiences than some extremely limited paramater lab studies. Yes, we all know potency varries, and we know that it varries for lots of reasons, including genetics. That's where the specific knowledge ends and speculation, extrapolation and yes MYTH begin.
IMO, if you say "Golden Teacher is more potent than Treasure Coast" you are perpetuating a myth, or at least an incomplete statement. I've seen too many people swear up and down that TC's were stronger than GT's, even though all they knew was that they were different "batches". Maybe thought they were from different cow fields or states, or whatever. Fact is in hundreds of blind studies, other factors prevented strain from being a consistent factor in percieved (maybe even real) potency.
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7) Possessing spores are legal.
Ok, I agreed with you. Now I'll bash you. Anybody who says spores are illegal just because they are in a syringe is an idiot. Anybody who thinks that any precedent for that scenario will come from PF's trial is also dumb. PF was growing shrooms people! That's manufacture of a schedule 1! They tacked on a conspiracy charge because they can prove that 1. he did it, and 2. he taught others how to do it. Nothing to do with if a spore syringe is legal or not will come out of this trial.
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6) You need to collect "poo" from farmers for good grows
true, but define "good". I would also say that nothing more than BRF and vermiculite is needed for good grows. But I would also say that no way in hell BRF or miracle grow is going to compete with what I know that field collected manure can produce. If you think otherwise, post some pics of your fertilized shrooms, I'll post some pics of some manure shrooms...doesn't mean fertilizer shrooms may not be perfectly acceptable, but it does mean that some things just can't be beat.
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5) Spore prints from huge shrooms will result in growing huge shrooms. Yeah, wrong again. There is significant degradation when one attempts to continue to clone a strain. This can also be witnessed when using agar to continue to improve a strain.
boy, you're in over your head now, aren't you? got confused a little with the science behind the hobby, huh? I think what you meant is that spore prints from huge shrooms won't necessarily yield huge shrooms in successive generations, and this is entirely true. There is enough diversity in the spores from a print that many of the resultant organisms will be smaller in stature than the parent fruit.
Then you trip over your own words. I'm not even sure what you are talking about clones and agar and stuff, but I'm pretty sure that it's either incorrect, confused, and certainly not a commonly believed myth.
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4) There is no way to prevent contamination. There are several steps you can take to prevent contams, most importantly using a pressure cooker (obviously). Yet, the one many people forget is the "OVEN-TEK"
1. Show me a home hobyist cultivator who has a 0% contamination rate through all phases of cultivation and I'll show you a liar. Sure, lots can be done to reduce it, but you'll never eradicate contams in a home environment. BTW, I didn't think that anybody ever sugested not working to prevent contams....
2. Oven tek is a myth in and of itself. I looked at mycotopia, but couldn't find the picture. Hippie put a jar on the oven rack, then a source of smoke in the oven. The airstream actually caused the smoke to blow DOWN INTO THE JAR, not up and away from it like the tek claims. You are better off in an open, still air environment than you are in the oven.
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2) THE PFTEK is the best method for newbies.
Only a newbie can answer this. When I was a newbie, I failed at grain and fruited on PF tek. I still recomend newb's start with PF tek, it is much simpler. It also allows people to learn even more foolproof teks like invitro cakes and what not. Call it a myth if you want, your opinion counts more than mine on this as you sound like a newb yourself, but I still recomend it, and I've yet to have one complaint from those I've taught the hobby to.
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Bulk methods are for "Advanced" growers.
This is a myth I guess. Depends how you define "advanced". I'd say that someone with a head on their shoulders is more advanced than the average idiot. I'd say that someone who hasn't grown a single fruit, but has a head on their shoulders, the ability to follow directions, and a general understanding of biology would be more "advanced" than many cultivators. But I also know that everybody thinks they are smarter and luckier than they are. Grow some cakes. Case some cakes. Then move on to bulk teks. Unless you want our next exchange to start with your question "is all this green stuff 'sposed to be here?" sure some folks slip through the cracks, but if someone wants to start with the best chances of enjoying the hobby, don't start with bulk substrates.
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"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mycofile]
#1508235 - 04/30/03 03:43 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, also wanted to bring up myth #11 that many people quietly perpetuate.
Myth #11: Cakes are only for Newbies. Also worded as: Cakes aren't advanced
A quick look at hippie3's entire career, eatyoualive's flatcakes, and countless other cultivators over the years shows that cakes very much have a place in cultivation. Among beginners and experts alike. Hippie's invitro cakes yield more per unit of volum than any bulk teks I know of. Eatyou's flat cakes are putting some rather experienced grain caser's yields to shame. Sure they aren't as esoteric, complicated or fancy sounding as a lot of "advanced" methods. But depending on how you judge things, they can give the most "advanced" teks a run for their money.
Also, many "advanced" teks are used by various types of cake culture. Cloning, liquid innoculates, additives of all kinds etc can all be applied to cakes in their various forms. In fact, some advanced experiments are easiest tested in cakes. Substrate additives being the best example I can think of right now.
The common myth is that cakes aren't "advanced". I'd like to challenge that and say, choose whatever aspect of growing is most important (time to harvest, work involved, complexity, yield per area, yield per volume, money involved etc) and a cake application can probably perform comparably to "advanced" methods. Well, almost, as long as you aren't looking for 18" tall fruits with 2" thick stems......
PS. most people who've known me over the years may be surprised at this post. Well, I guess being removed from cultivation myself, I'm less opinionated about my way being the best, and cakes and flat cakes are really impressing me at the momment. A little distance often brings a little clarity.
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,167
Loc: my room
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mycofile]
#1508278 - 04/30/03 03:51 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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>I looked at mycotopia, but couldn't find the picture. Hippie put a jar on the oven
>rack, then a source of smoke in the oven. The airstream actually caused the
>smoke to blow DOWN INTO THE JAR, not up and away from it like the tek claims.
This would have been me, in this thread:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum2&Number=1144051
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mycofile
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Anno]
#1508305 - 04/30/03 03:59 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Excellent, thanks anno. I guess hippie just shared your pics, cuz those are the ones I remember. Oven tek busted!
Hope your schools going well, are you an engineer yet or what?
--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi
PM me with any cultivation questions.
I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.
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Anno
Experimenter
Registered: 06/17/99
Posts: 24,167
Loc: my room
Last seen: 27 days, 22 hours
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mycofile]
#1508309 - 04/30/03 04:00 PM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Still working on it.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mycofile]
#1510211 - 05/01/03 01:38 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Excellent, thanks anno. I guess hippie just shared your pics, cuz those are the ones I remember. Oven tek busted!
I see alot of Anno's picks floating around...why he doesnt have a copyright and licensing fees...could be making the real money...... 
Prisoner#1
Edited by Prisoner#1 (05/01/03 01:38 AM)
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zeta
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3,972
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: Prisoner#1]
#1510437 - 05/01/03 04:21 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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Perhaps he's not a scumbag?
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,751
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 15 minutes, 47 seconds
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Re: 10 BIGGEST MYCOLOGY MYTHS COUNTDOWN [Re: mycofile]
#1510505 - 05/01/03 05:12 AM (21 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think there's more variation in potency from one isolate to another within a strain than there is from strain to strain.
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This space for rent
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