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The big homelessness question?
    #25286859 -

So I work in a large city in a finance company. Doing software engineering and things are going well for me

But as I commute to the office (I don't live within the city) there are tons homeless all over the place. It seems like homelessness is this big question that everyone has but noone can really answer. Either the left or right don't have clear answers to solving this problem. I sort of put myself in the shoes of a homeless individual and I really don't know where I would begin on solving this particular issue. If I was homeless and on alcohol/heroin I don't think there would be much hope for getting out of it. You are on drugs because you are bored and homeless. You are homeless because you are on drugs and alcohol. Seems like a chicken or the egg type situation. In a lot of cases I doubt there people are in contact with their families and that they most likely lack a cell phone completely. What is the game plan at that point?

Many right leaning folk say things like "They can just get off of drugs and get a job" when I think many people in this forum can attest to how addictive xanax, alcohol, crack, meth and heroin are. Its not that easy. and even if you are drug free and sober, where do you begin applying for jobs? There people don't shower or have access to food and shelter. Society treats them like dirt so they start to see themselves as incapable. Its not even in the sphere of possibility for many.

There doesn't seem to be any clear and quick answers. With the opiate epidemic, I am guessing that the rise of homeless populations in big cities is closely causally tied to heroin use?

My buddy is left leaning and suggested we build free houses for the homeless population. But my problem is that beyond a certain point the homeless lack daily structure and routine. They also are at the point where they have given up on life and themselves. I hate to be a drag but I think the houses would be used as a means or purpose of just drinking and partying

Some will suggest free treatment. but I think that someone has to really want to get clean. for many they have little to live for and they sort of want to be on drugs. I think this could help but treatment can't be forced (ie some people propose that people should be given the option between treatment and jail)

Some suggest mental health treatment but many who are homeless fail to stick to appointments completely. And I think from personal experience therapists aren't magicians. they can only help those who want help. Also; therapy works but many people I talk to act like schizophrenia can just be cured. My hildhood friend is schizophrenic. He is batshit insane and out of touch with reality. He struggles to maintain basic hygiene and tasks. He also thinks he is completely normal and I am insane for suggesting his delusions are false. I have had to distance myself from him because he is gonna be this way forever

So my answer is some sort of govt program that would give people access to showers, a room, treatment at set times of day etc. That would encourage basic routine and give a chance for people to get a foothold?

tl:dr; just ranting about the homelessness problem. there seem to be very few clear actionable answers here

Edited by topdog82 (06/23/18 09:19 AM)

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: topdog82] * 1
    #25286898 -

Very true, hard to come up with clear answers to a problem that doesn't have a single root cause.

I know that in a particular Canadian city that i lived, there were multiple approaches aimed at dealing with homelessness, each of which attempted to deal with a specific issue, in the hopes that dealing with many specific issues would help culminate in a roundabout holistic approach.

Some of the things considered and addressed are:

Public health issues
- Things like safe-injection sites, free community support centres, free drug testing help reduce the spread of disease, strain on fire and ambulance services and providing safe locations for vulnerable individuals

Support services
- Volunteer legal groups who assist homeless people with getting photo ID, which is required to be able to apply for government assistance programs.  They also help provide legal services to those being further victimized, either by their government, landlords, or others, which can often prevent people from having any chance of getting back on their feet.

Employment opportunities
- Helps give people some basic structure and responsibility as a step towards
- Very basic opportunities, such as community service, selling a newspaper that is entirely run by ex-homeless, ex-drug addicts

Housing strategies
- various temporary and permanent housing initiatives

There are countless other approaches and initiatives being implemented and thought up every year... too many to keep track of and name but it is clear that none of these approaches are effective on their own, and there are always individuals for whom these strategies will not be effective but it's interesting to see how the homelessness strategies evolve in a relatively progressive city.

My personal feeling is that it's an issue that can't be fixed with direct approaches... i feel like it's one of the products of a capitalist society (although i don't doubt that it can equally be a product of a communist society).  It has more to do with how we, as a human race think and treat each other and our lack of ability to be trustworthy, honest and fair to each other. 

Those are things that seem nearly impossible to address on a large scale.


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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: topdog82]
    #25286916 -

An unsolvable problem but a treatable one. Afa housing is a good start. Minimum wage workers can get one and still eat a little.

There's resources for the homeless, in certain places. And honestly...some just prefer being homeless.


--------------------
Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul


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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: King Klick]
    #25286931 -

It's mostly a mental health issue from my experiences with the homeless. They aren't forced to take medication, have a hard time filling out any sort of paperwork, and can't even maintain keeping their clothes clean despite the piles of free clothes or 1 time used clothes/blankets rotting in the streets with piles of feces and other trash. Sadly, I think the only solution is the fema camps everyone talks about, and will be started soon.

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #25286936 -

The homeless for the most part have chosen no to have any responsibility, drugs and drink


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I like mushrooms herbs and space. Arnold pushes steel

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: King Klick]
    #25286938 -

King Klick said:
Minimum wage workers can get one and still eat a little.



I was able to save money while working minimum wage. A roommate helps or efficiency apartment. Or both.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #25286939 -

Social workers have already identified multiple plague diseases in the homeless camps. All it will take is one big news story on the topic before our great president calls the homeless encampment and their inhabitants a threat to society, which will result in them being quickly rounded up.

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #25286942 -

passifloracaerulea said:
It's mostly a mental health issue from my experiences with the homeless.


I agree.


Quote:
Sadly, I think the only solution is the fema camps everyone talks about, and will be started soon.


:resignednonacceptance:

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: PatrickKn]
    #25286948 -

Yes I am really Larry.

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: King Klick]
    #25286953 -

I've been thinking of this the last year after a conversation I had with a homeless fellow.
I had always given money when ever asked. Figured that was the solution.

I was talking with a panhandler at a stop light after giving him money and he proceeded to state he would freeze to death soon if he didn't "find a sweetie to stay with" as winter was coming.

Feeling oddly put on the spot I brought up universal income that I figure is an inevitability and then he accidentally let slip he already made over $1400 a month so that wouldn't be enough to get him off the street.

I commented that most people cannot afford to live on their own they need room mates and it was as if he had not considered this.

2 or 3 people in my area bringing in $1400 can easily get off the street but if you don't understand how or have the discipline to manage your resources even double that you are going to end up back on the curb.

As much as I don't enjoy wasteful government controlling social services I think the only solution would be one like your friend suggested and some sort of guidance guardianship type situation to help get people learn skills that their parents obviously didn't manage to teach them.

It is pretty sad to see. In a world with such excess people starving or freezing or just being marginalized and alone should be something we can avoid.

Edited by Armida (06/23/18 10:02 AM)

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: Armida]
    #25287024 -

I think once you are homeless it is very very difficult to get out of the situation. Imagine trying to hold down a job when you live on the street. Lots of people live on the edge. One mistake or bit of bad luck and if you don’t have family or friends you are out on the street. It’s very expensive to be poor.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: koods]
    #25287034 -

Very true. It seems the homeless and the poor get hit with the most fines and tickets, which only keeps them down that much more.

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: passifloracaerulea] * 1
    #25287042 -

One thing I don't understand is where homeless people are legally supposed to sleep.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: XUL]
    #25287050 -

XUL said:
One thing I don't understand is where homeless people are legally supposed to sleep.


Outta sight


--------------------
Your god is dead, and I killed him.

When you’re lost, here I am. Forever with your soul


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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: Hoodafucisdat]
    #25287112 -

My buddy said "how is homeless illegal? thats like making acne illegal"
Hoodafucisdat said:
The homeless for the most part have chosen no to have any responsibility, drugs and drink


At some level this is true. but I think people forget that it takes a slip up and you are fucked. my parents sheltered me from the world around me

As I grew up I knew little about drugs or alcohol. When I came into contact with the wrong crowd I didn't have any clue and really went all out
I very well would have done heroin, crack or meth a handful of times if the chance had come up. I was just looking to fuck around and my understanding of how destructive some chemicals are was very skewed

Many people even come from good families and proper homes yet make 1-2 poor choices like doing heroin or crack. maybe they were sexually abused
from that point forward they are fucked. I was suicidally depressed for years for reasons that go outside of this post
my family was supportive and I got treatment. looking back now it feels like just some hiccup. some old version of me. but the key is that had my family not been there for me I would probably been on the streets right now. its not really that simple

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: topdog82]
    #25287123 -

Seriously, if you come from a well off family, you can afford to fuck up a bunch of times. Unless they. Fucking hate you or they're Christians and you're a fag, they aren't going to let you live on the street, if your parents have no extra resources, the situation is more dire.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: koods]
    #25287134 -

They need to utilize some of the abandoned/unused buildings that are in every city (the ones that all the rich real estate people own as a tax shelter anyway, the ones that just sit empty) and kill the laws on personal amounts of all drugs, take the DEA task force people and put them in charge of rehab facilities for the homeless, and funnel the billions of drug money they have from busts, not to mention the funding to bust people, and make those places centers for integrating the homeless people back into society. Also start programs that are run by the homeless people going around to different restaurants and stores and distributing the expired (but still good) food back to those places as a job. Recycling and reusing tons of resources that are already there, but they are just trashed and wasted.

Edited by tyrannicalrex (06/23/18 11:38 AM)

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #25287143 -

XUL said:
One thing I don't understand is where homeless people are legally supposed to sleep.


My buddy said "how is homeless illegal? thats like making acne illegal"

This part of my other post was directed at this exactly. I don't really get that either
koods said:
Seriously, if you come from a well off family, you can afford to fuck up a bunch of times. Unless they. Fucking hate you or they're Christians and you're a fag, they aren't going to let you live on the street, if your parents have no extra resources, the situation is more dire.


basically haha. I am almost sure had my parents had helped me a lot at my low points I would be on the streets right this second

helped me a lot emotionally and financially. Even gave me some tough love
XUL said:
King Klick said:
Minimum wage workers can get one and still eat a little.



I was able to save money while working minimum wage. A roommate helps or efficiency apartment. Or both.


did you have a gf? a dog? a social life? was your diet reasonably healthy and in check? did you live in a shitty apartment?
how much drugs and alcohol did you do? cigarettes?

The thing is drugs and cigarettes add up really quickly. that plus health care costs means a tiny slip up puts you in a place where you are fucked. Or at least it takes up to a decade to pull yourself out. which is just sad
tyrannicalrex said:
They need to utilize some of the abandoned/unused buildings that are in every city (the ones that all the rich real estate people own as a tax shelter anyway, the ones that just sit empty) and kill the laws on personal amounts of all drugs, take the DEA task force people and put them in charge of rehab facilities for the homeless, and funnel the billions of drug money they have from busts, not to mention the funding to bust people, and make those places centers for integrating the homeless people back into society. Also start programs that are run by the homeless people going around to different restaurants and stores and distributing the expired (but still good) food back to those places as a job. Recycling and reusing tons of resources that are already there, but they are just trashed and wasted.



I like this. def a fresh perspective

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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: topdog82]
    #25287152 -

All the people would have "jobs" more or less. Killing the laws right away is a fantasy, but killing the cannabis laws would free up enough DEA agents (weed divisions only) to make a huge dent in the problem. I see problems with the whole idea, but it seems solid to work with.


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Re: The big homelessness question? [Re: koods]
    #25287153 -

Medicine Hat in Alberta Canada went ahead and build housing for all the homeless. It's a fairly small city, but the economists figure it's way cheaper to give them housing than having them locked up in jail for property crime or having them stay in hospitals all the time.

It's usually a few chronic users of the healthcare system that cost a vast majority of costs. If you improve those health outcomes for them by getting them off the street it's way cheaper to give them houses. Hep C and other people with chronic conditions costs way more if you ignore them and people come in when they are in emergency distress than treating it regularly.

Chronic infections from living on the street and shooting puddle water drugs is mostly eliminated. The people using these houses mostly destroy them. There was a bit of outrage over them getting marble counters and shit, but you need durable materials that can be misused to a high degree.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/medicine-hat-homeless-free-update-1.3949030

Larger cities will have a harder time employing this strategy, but it really is the way to do it.


--------------------
I was pessimistic in my youth. Now I can just follow the Toronto Raptors.

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