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Offlineshaggy101
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teach me time
    #2462918 - 03/23/04 05:44 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

signatures that is.
I have been playing different instruments for bout 10 years, with no formal training.

and although I am glad I tought myself I dont take pride in being music illiterate,
I play everything by the "feel" of it
but I would love to be able to communicate it..

you guys know what im talking about like the 4/4's and 5/4's ect..


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: teach me time [Re: shaggy101]
    #2463271 - 03/23/04 11:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well, the first thing you need when learning anything 'time' is a metronome. A good one can adjust to any division of the beat, and any strange time sig up to like 11 or 12.

First, 4/4 means 4 beats to a measure, and the quarter note gets 1 beat. So 3/4 means 3 beats to a measure, and the quarter note gets 1 beat. The bottom number represents what type of note gets x number of beats per measure. Half note=2, quarter=4, eighth=8, etc.

There are complex time signatures, most often used in contemporary music, such as 3+4/8, which mostly deals with emphasis and subdivision of the measure. This would mean the 'feel' for 3+4/8 would be 1.2.3.4.5.6.7.

Further analysis of rhythm would uncover polyrhythms and other complex rhythms that have either overlapping or 2 different time signatures occuring at the same time in the same interval of time.
like so:
1 . 2 . 3 . |1 . 2 . 3 .
1 . . 2 . . |1 . . 2 . .

or overlapping:
1.2.3.4.5.1.2.3.4.5.1.2.3.4.5.
1.2.3.1.2.3.1.2.3.1.2.3.1.2.3.

overall, just get used to tapping your foot, counting out rhythm, especially if you're trying to play something in something other than 3 or 4. Emphasis can always be broken down into duple (2) or triple (3), and combinations of the two. If ya get a good metronome, you'll soon get the 'feel' of odd time sig's.

hope this helps, respond with any q's


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Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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Offlineboondie
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Re: teach me time [Re: Blastrid]
    #2464093 - 03/23/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It's standard not to count past four.

i.e. 7/4 would be 1.2.3.1.2.3.4

Least that's how I was taught, I think it has something to do with the rhythm between four and five?


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: teach me time [Re: boondie]
    #2464722 - 03/23/04 07:40 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

It seems logical to subdivide complex signatures into duple and triple, but then it would make more sense not to count past 2 and 3.

I've not familiar with your method, I haven't heard such a standard. In my theory class, I became aware of the fact that there are so many counting practices... i.e. one two tee four, always creating strongbeats in irregular sig's...etc.


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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Offlineboondie
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Re: teach me time [Re: Blastrid]
    #2466017 - 03/24/04 02:00 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

That's just how I was taught, I assumed it was the "standard"


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Offlineshaggy101
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Re: teach me time [Re: Blastrid]
    #2474634 - 03/25/04 10:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I still dot get it :smirk:
I usually do tap my foot
and I think I do understand time
on a usable level ..I just cant communicate it

like some of the songs I write people will tell me ..wow thats in wierd time
and I know it feels wierd..but I cant express it other than by playing it

in the future I will buy a metronome.

maybe...
..alright from what im hearing
mybe is the intro to aenima 4/4??
or is it 3/4?


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: teach me time [Re: shaggy101]
    #2474803 - 03/25/04 11:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

hehe Tool is a bad place to start for a beginner learning rhythm. They go beyond most band out there today as far as time changes, polyrhythms, and just amazing extents of counting time.

but, the beginning of aenima is in 4. Except, Tool does this quite a bit, they use 2(subdivided 4) against 3. This means you can count 2 and 3 at the same time. You know that christmas song, where it goes 'here come the bells here come the bells" ( it was in Home Alone..heh) THAT is the same rhythm as 2 against 3. This pattern is all over Aenima and Lateralus, there's something sacred about it.

Anyways, start simpler, count while you play. Counting, in addition to tapping your foot, gets you situated on where stuff begins and ends. You'll understand even your own written stuff much better when you figure out how timing fits in.

Everything can be counted and divided up like this, with each syllable on a beat:

1---------2---------
1---and---2---and---
1-e-and-a-2-e-and-a

Find a Tom Petty song or something rhythmically easy and count 1-2-3-4- and then see if you can count the 16th notes--that is, see if you can fit in 4 ticks during 1 beat. So 1...2...3...4... (.=16th note, same as 1-e-and-a-)




OR, just go to your local music store and buy a beginner rhythm book. To be a musician, rhythm is step 1, honestly.


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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Invisibleknumb
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Re: teach me time [Re: shaggy101]
    #2475511 - 03/26/04 02:08 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

there isnt that much to get really
signitures apply mostly to reading, writing, and conducting music. not so much to playing

the first number is the number of beats in the measure, (this is the important number) the second number tells you what note is one full beat (strictly for notation).

ie
3/4 = 3 beats in a measure, quarter note gets one beat.
6/8 = 6 beats in a measure, eigth note gets one beat.

roughly
99% of music is written in 4/4 or 3/4
just guessing

2/2, 2/4, 4/4, 4/8, all sound pretty much the same and only matter in how the music is written out. but i dont think anybody can really differentiate between 2/4 and 4/4, based on sound alone.

other than that it really comes down to where accents are placed.
think of a waltz
boom cha cha
boom cha cha
its almost always in 3/4
but it could be written in 3/2, 3/8, 6/8, or even 4/4 if you think in triplets or accent every third beat.

also things that are 3/4 often feel like there is only one beat in the measure.
(sing boom cha cha and hit your air drums on every boom like you are conducting)

you can count as high as you like, but its usualy easier to count to a lower number.

you can have as many beats in a measure as you want, but after 12/ it starts to get kinda redundant.

(really long explanation of a really simple concept)

measures containing a number of beats divisible by 2 or 3 are usualy easy to accent/feel*, while measures containing higher prime numbers (5, 7, 11) tend to be the hardest to feel and are often subdivided (5=2+3 or 3+2, 7=3+4 or 4+3 or 2+2+3 etc).
*exceptions being 10=(5+5), 14=(7+7) etc which are usually redundant anyway

(am i allowed to use *'s?)

really its almost meaningless. all that matters is how you tap your foot.

metronomes are very close to pure evil but somehow its one of those things you need to be able to do.

good listening
in 7
phish-guyute
pink floyd-money

in 5
dave brubeck-take five

in any fucking time he wants to be
aphex twin-bucephalus bouncing ball

let me know if i missed a question or raised a question or was completely unclear with my footnotes and all.

k


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Offlineshaggy101
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Re: teach me time [Re: knumb]
    #2475552 - 03/26/04 02:31 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

no that was perfectly clear, you should be a teacher!
I started getting it with the waltz
but pink floyds money
drove it in

this stuff is really interesting
although i cant afford to use my chance at college for music
i really want to study it sometime

thanks guys!


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