The Ecstatic said:

So are we indifferent to the border or are we advocating open borders?

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It's the same thing. If you don't care about who enters the US, just say it!!  Be proud of your position on the issue and stop being so defensive about it.

Many liberals are very clear on how they feel about US borders, they think the concept stupid.

qman said:

No, they don't see the light. In a few days they will still be obsessed with Trump, Russia and identity politics.

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qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

So are we indifferent to the border or are we advocating open borders?

---

It's the same thing. If you don't care about who enters the US, just say it!!  Be proud of your position on the issue and stop being so defensive about it.

Many liberals are very clear on how they feel about US borders, they think the concept stupid.

---

Cyrus19 said:

qman said:

No, they don't see the light. In a few days they will still be obsessed with Trump, Russia and identity politics.

---

Dems need to focus on economics bread and butter issues put the social issues on the back burner. Focus on unions going after corrupt bankers.

---

Cyrus19 said:

qman said:

No, they don't see the light. In a few days they will still be obsessed with Trump, Russia and identity politics.

---

Dems need to focus on economics bread and butter issues put the social issues on the back burner. Focus on unions going after corrupt bankers.

---

Yeah, but their corporate sponsors wouldn't be on board with such a policy.

Obama created the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, that didn't happen by pure chance.

The Ecstatic said:

Cyrus19 said:

qman said:

No, they don't see the light. In a few days they will still be obsessed with Trump, Russia and identity politics.

---

Dems need to focus on economics bread and butter issues put the social issues on the back burner. Focus on unions going after corrupt bankers.

---

Agreed.

But i'll put my money on them siding with the donor class again.

---

I donate money to a socialist organization its small but I'd like to them infiltrate my local democratic party.

qman said:

Cyrus19 said:

qman said:

No, they don't see the light. In a few days they will still be obsessed with Trump, Russia and identity politics.

---

Dems need to focus on economics bread and butter issues put the social issues on the back burner. Focus on unions going after corrupt bankers.

---

Yeah, but their corporate sponsors wouldn't be on board with such a policy.

Obama created the largest wealth and income inequality in over 80 years, that didn't happen by pure chance.

---

The Ecstatic said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

So are we indifferent to the border or are we advocating open borders?

---

It's the same thing. If you don't care about who enters the US, just say it!!  Be proud of your position on the issue and stop being so defensive about it.

Many liberals are very clear on how they feel about US borders, they think the concept stupid.

---

You dont know what my position is, im guessing, despite me clarifying it several times.

I'm not for open borders. And im guessing whst fal meant by our (liberals') indifference is that border enforcement isnt our political priority.

Its a dog whistle. Look how easily the wall fell onto the agenda backburner. Trump's supporters dont even care.

I'll be the first person to acknowledge the flaws in our border security. But I also dont think its wise to dump billions of dollars into a program that mitigates civil rights of Americans to try to solve a problem that cant be solved. ESPECIALLY when we have much more pressing issues.

---

Cyrus19 said:

The Ecstatic said:

Cyrus19 said:

qman said:

No, they don't see the light. In a few days they will still be obsessed with Trump, Russia and identity politics.

---

Dems need to focus on economics bread and butter issues put the social issues on the back burner. Focus on unions going after corrupt bankers.

---

Agreed.

But i'll put my money on them siding with the donor class again.

---

I donate money to a socialist organization its small but I'd like to them infiltrate my local democratic party.

---

Get with DSA if you havent already

The Ecstatic said:

@qman

1. He has a voice but I havent heard of any mass protests against the wall house bill being shelved. Havent even heard anything from Trump about it.

2. Source? If youre trying to be coy and include US citizens in that figure then dont bother.

3. Yeah, so cut away our entire nation's social safety net, impose a Gattica-like, oppressive employment system, and people will STILL risk life and limb to get to the United States. Have you even thought about how your solution would affect the entirety of US citizens?

4. Implying illegal immigrants are the only cause of those issues. Be more intellectually dishonest.  Be proud of your position, remember?


Man up and admit either

A) you dont give a shit about the average American family as their employment status, social programs, and civil rights will be negatively affected by your proposed solutions

Or B) you dont have a feasible solution, because no one does, because there isnt one, and therefore you should focus on issues we CAN solve (like healthcare, corporate overreach, infrastructure).

---

1. I agree, The Wall isn't a political issue at this time. With that being said, most serious political issues also seem to be on the sidelines.

2. I've posted it too many times already.

3. My concern isn't about those illegals who come to work in the US, it's about US citizens and their wages/employment. It's simple supply and demand at work here.

4. No, illegals are not the only cause of higher taxes, lower wages, higher unemployment and massive wealth inequality, but it's a huge factor!!  Shipping work out of the US also hurts, again simple supply and demand at work.

a. "affected by your proposed solutions"  How in the world would does keeping illegal workers out of the US labor market negatively affect US workers? 

b "you don't have a feasible solution"  Bring jobs back the US and keeping both legal and illegal workers out of the US labor market is a huge start.

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

2. Source? If youre trying to be coy and include US citizens in that figure then dont bother.

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2. I've posted it too many times already.

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ballsalsa said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

2. Source? If youre trying to be coy and include US citizens in that figure then dont bother.

---

2. I've posted it too many times already.

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and been called out too many times?

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Yeah, because the children from illegals have NOTHING to do with illegal immigration. 

Maybe the US should bring in 10 million pregnant African women so they can give birth on US soil, that would be great, right? No strain on social services for the native US population.

The Ecstatic said:

If qman's chief concern was the welfare of the average US working family he'd be a socialist.

---

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

If qman's chief concern was the welfare of the average US working family he'd be a socialist.

---

Yet, I am for social programs for US CITIZENS, not non-US citizens. I got news for you, there's not infinite resources in the US for all the world's poor people.

I'm for universal health care for US citizens, I'm for keeping the labor market in balance for US citizens, not illegals that get the rich even richer.

---

The Ecstatic said:

qman said:

The Ecstatic said:

If qman's chief concern was the welfare of the average US working family he'd be a socialist.

---

Yet, I am for social programs for US CITIZENS, not non-US citizens. I got news for you, there's not infinite resources in the US for all the world's poor people.

I'm for universal health care for US citizens, I'm for keeping the labor market in balance for US citizens, not illegals that get the rich even richer.

---

Our capitalist model makes the rich even richer, illegals or not.

Why not argue for campaign financw reform? An end to gerrymandering? You know...fundamental threats to our democracy. Problems that can actually be solved.

---

"Our capitalist model makes the rich even richer"

The foundation of that model is cheap labor, it doesn't matter if it's outsourced to China or imported from Mexico, it's the same model.

"illegals or not"

Cheap labor always increases the economic inequality, the rich don't maintain an open border policy to enrich themselves in "cultural diversity".

The Ecstatic said:

Arguing against illegals from the conservative pulpit in order to help US citizens is like joining the Nazi party  because you thought the Treaty of Versailles was unfair.

Youd do much more good exerting effort on a problems thats solveable, rather than abetting racists and idiots on the right.

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"problems that's solveable"

You mean asking the rich to be nicer to the middle class?  Good luck with the boys in Washington/Wall Street on that one.

"rather than abetting racist and idiots on the right"

I'm sure there's plenty on the right that don't understand the economic facts from immigration that impact their standard of living, but that doesn't mean they're idiots for asking that our immigration laws be enforced.

The people on the left refused to even acknowledge the economic ramifications from immigration, they're more than happy to spew the elites propaganda under the misguided impression they're "free thinkers".