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musiclover420
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Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) 1
#23734971 - 10/13/16 06:25 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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and a new one will emerge after ours collapses
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/before-big-bang-there-was-another-universe-new-one-will-emerge-after-ours-collapses-1586242?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rss&utm_content=/rss/yahoous/news&yptr=yahoo
Quote:
The universe started with the Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago, but what was there before? Does this question even make sense? And can we really address this question scientifically? This is exactly what a team of scientists has tried to do.
In their new model of cosmology, the universe we see is just one in a cycle of many universes. Each of these universes has its own phases of expansion, contraction and a Big Bang.
In their study, published on the pre-print server arxiv.org, Maha Salah, Fayçal Hammad, Mir Faizal and Ahmed Farag Ali have been able to look at the state of the universe before its beginning, creating a model of pre-Big Bang cosmology.
The cosmology of the universe can be modelled using the Einstein's general theory of relativity. It predicts that the universe is expanding and the galaxies are all moving away from us. Also the further a galaxy is away, the faster it is moving away from us. This is used to predict the universe started with a Big Bang – if you reverse this expansion to go back in time, eventually we come to the point where the universe began.
At the point of Big Bang the laws of Einstein's general theory of relativity seem to break down and it is not possible to use them to understand how the Big Bang occurred. So, how did the Big Bang happen and can we describe physics before the Big Bang? Can we describe physics before the creation of the universe? According to the team's model, yes, we can.
They first used Jacobson's formalism of Einstein's general theory of relativity, where the Einstein equation is basically described as thermodynamical equation. They then studied the corrections to the Einstein equations from quantum effects.
There is no quantum theory of gravity, but there are many approaches to quantum gravity. All of these approaches seem to imply the structure of spacetime breaks down at a small length scale, so there is no spacetime below that scale. Many of these approaches also seem to indicate that there is a maximum energy in the universe, and you cannot really have an energy beyond that maximum energy.
Faizal told IBTimes UK: "Our spacetime is only an approximation to some purely mathematical theory describing reality, and the geometry of spacetime emerges from this theory. Just as the geometry of any solid material objects emerges from atomic theory. It is meaningless to talk about the geometry of a solid object at atomic scale and it is also meaningless to talk about the geometry of solid object at such energies when they will melt.
"In the same way, it becomes meaningless to talk of the geometry of spacetime below a certain length scale and beyond a certain energy scale. However, the fact that the geometry of spacetime is bounded by a minimum length and a maximum energy can be used to study quantum gravitational effects on cosmology, and doing this we have been able to study the pre-Big Bang cosmology".
The team took these two inputs – that spacetime breaks down at a minimum length and that it is not possible for any object in this spacetime to have an energy beyond a certain maximum energy – and applied it to the thermodynamical description of general theory of relativity. What they ended up with was four distinct phases of the universe, supporting the idea of a cyclical universe.
"The equations imply that the expansion of the universe will come to a halt and then will immediately be followed by a contracting phase. When the equations are extrapolated beyond the maximum rate of contraction, a cyclic universe scenario emerges," they wrote.
"The Big Bang is not really the beginning of the universe, it is just a phase transition," Faizal said. "There was a phase before the Big Bang, there is the present phase, there will be a phase after this and then will yet another fourth phase. Then a new Big Bang will occur. So, the universe exists in four different phases, just a water exists in three different phases."
Initially, the team had thought they would be able to get the get the maximum density for the universe and get rid of the singularity. The result of a cyclical universe was a surprise. "That was amazing that we actually got our cyclic universe. And not only cyclic but with four distinct phases. We did not impose it. It just came out as a conclusion," Faizal explained.
The researchers say it will be a challenge to test their model.
Asked if it could be used to predict when the universe will fall in on itself, Faizal added: "I think it will be impossible to predict when the universe will collapse. But what we can predict is that it will collapse. So the right question is not when, it is will it. And will it? Yes."
Thoughts?
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Morgenstern
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: musiclover420] 1
#23735052 - 10/13/16 07:00 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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Question: Is having more than one identical atom enough evidence to suggest that there are an infinite amount of them and at the same time, an infinite amount of space to accompany them?
-------------------- Admins can't read graphs.
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Konyap
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: Morgenstern]
#23735123 - 10/13/16 07:18 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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heat death universe is a very rational idea
however saying another universe will crop up is just like saying all of this could happen again which i kind of do beleive unfortunately though for us the eternity would make us insane
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Konyap
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: Morgenstern]
#23735136 - 10/13/16 07:22 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Morgenstern said: Question: Is having more than one identical atom enough evidence to suggest that there are an infinite amount of them and at the same time, an infinite amount of space to accompany them?
atom's are made of protons and electrons they're all identical really it's just they have different properties when theyre in different shapes
i don't know anything about quantum stuff though, thats more torwards probability then actually physical gunk
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musiclover420
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: Konyap]
#23735186 - 10/13/16 07:36 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Konyap said: heat death universe is a very rational idea
however saying another universe will crop up is just like saying all of this could happen again which i kind of do beleive unfortunately though for us the eternity would make us insane
Yeah it seems pretty logical to me as wells, makes more sense then the universe just being one long identical phase after the big bang.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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moonrockmushy
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: musiclover420] 1
#23735197 - 10/13/16 07:38 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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Will the Big Bang Theory sitcom also exist in other universe phases?
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musiclover420
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: moonrockmushy] 1
#23735203 - 10/13/16 07:40 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: Will the Big Bang Theory sitcom also exist in other universe phases?
If there are infinite universes there are infinite incarnations of infinite shows
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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moonrockmushy
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: musiclover420] 2
#23735220 - 10/13/16 07:45 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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So that show could be even worse
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musiclover420
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: moonrockmushy]
#23735269 - 10/13/16 08:09 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: So that show could be even worse
I know right, that show has long pissed me off. I have known many girls who were into it, used to occasionally watch it with my ex.
On the flip side there is a dimension where it is actually a good show, it has to be out there... Somewhere... Maybe...
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Mescalean
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: musiclover420]
#23735275 - 10/13/16 08:12 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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How the multiverse was explained to me was to imagine it as a book, multiple pages, each page a separate universe. They are not suppose to interact as the ink does not bleed from page to page. But something scientists are trying to do is see if we can rip out page to see the next one... CERN
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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SirShroomsAlott
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: musiclover420] 2
#23735302 - 10/13/16 08:25 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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I don't agree with this article, it claims "The equations imply that the expansion of the universe will come to a halt and then will immediately be followed by a contracting phase."
Nice theory, I even thought about it when I was a kid and obsessed with everything space related, but every bit of evidence I've ever seen shows that the universe is not slowing down, it's speeding up for reasons we don't fully understand. Logical/common sense says it should be slowing down and would eventually slow down to a point where it would all fall back in on itself according to gravity since there's no force interacting with it that would give it energy to move faster, direct observations show otherwise and that there's things we can't explain (Dark matter, dark energy, etc.) Plus common sense can't really be relied on when dealing with something as grand and comprehensive as the universe itself.
Seems like clickbait to me considering they have nothing to back up what they claim and all the evidence I'm aware of points in the complete opposite direction
Heat death unlikely, if anything I believe cold death of the universe is much more likely and ATM has much more to support that that's what'll happen.
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musiclover420
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
#23735427 - 10/13/16 09:07 PM (8 years, 1 day ago) |
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Wouldn't it make sense after the big bang the initial inertia caused the expansion and acceleration, but over time it will accelerate less and less until it starts contracting? That sees very possible to me, it couldn't just accelerate forever unless some major unknown factor is at play that would band the laws of physics. Their theory is around 4 phases, so it could be something like:
1: Expansion & Acceleration 2: Expansion & Deceleration 3: Contraction 4: Implosion/ big bang
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Morgenstern
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: musiclover420]
#23753129 - 10/19/16 08:24 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yes, in fact, they say that some matter during the Big Bang accelerated, literally, faster than light. So that's out of our scope of vision and even reason.
Who knows how much matter it could have been, but it could make the universe accelerate for a period of time. And of course, with time, slow down and collapse on itself.
-------------------- Admins can't read graphs.
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musiclover420
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Re: Before the Big Bang there was another universe (article) [Re: Morgenstern]
#23753262 - 10/19/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Check out this guys channel on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZFipeZtQM5CKUjx6grh54g/videos
He posts a lot of great theoretical science around the big bang and a ton of other fascinating ideas.
I forget what videos of his I have watched but he talks about some incredibly far out but also logical stuff that very possibly could come to be if it hasn't already.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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