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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Reincarnation
    #23461281 -

Let me get this straight: if you were a bad person (and no one can agree what that means) you come back as a lower animal.

Lower animals have no morals and are guided strictly by instinct, yet if they are a good chipmunk (or whatever) they get to come back as a human.

:epicfacepalm:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23461301 -

If you came back as an animal you wouldn't know that you were a human before. If you come back as a human again you may get some insight into past lives but you probably would not know that you are reborn. Either way you cannot remember your past incarnation as life and the universe make it rather difficult to do so I would argue. Also there is the possibility of reincarnating higher than human or lower than any living thing.

that's a simple way of putting it the Buddhist teachings say that there are several dimensions of heaven an hell which could manifest in different realities/ways.

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: tdubz]
    #23461340 -

Quote:
Either way you cannot remember your past incarnation


And this is why there are so many books and "teachings" on this nonsense. :elmo:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #23461342 -

To me, reincarnation is just that you only stay dead for so long (maybe only an instant), and then bam, you're a baby something. No morality or karma or anything like that attached. Just the continuation of consciousness in a different animal/human.

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: nooneman]
    #23461349 -

Uh huh. On what do you base this belief?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #23461394 -

Nothing. No one has any evidence of what actually happens at death.

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: nooneman]
    #23461401 -

So why would you hold such a baseless belief?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion] * 1
    #23461408 -

Because I feel like it? lol I dunno, it doesn't cost me anything :shrug:

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: nooneman]
    #23461419 -

I would like to add that I'm willing to entertain any and all possibilities for what death might be like. Even the classic everything just ends forever seems rather comforting to me. The world is a harsh place and we don't ask to be born, if everything just ends that seems rather comforting to me in a weird way. An eternal escape from all the exhaustion and work and sadness of the world.

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: nooneman]
    #23461424 -

Maybe it does. Irrational beliefs almost never lead to rational action. Would you agree?


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23461427 -

Never is a big word. All I (or anyone) would have to do to disprove that is to find a single example in the history of the world that defies this.

I agree that in general irrational belief does not lead to rational action, but I would argue that I am a very tiny cog in a very large machine and irrational actions on my part have very little effect on the world.

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23461430 -

You are not asked to be born an you are not asked to die (unless you kill yourself) which I would say is not a good idea based on my beliefs but who really knows maybe you can kill yourself an come back living the best life ever however i have a feeling that's not how it works.

Pain and suffering leads to transcendence or something like that.

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23461470 -

Are new spirits or souls or whatever ever created, or does a static number of souls just hop around to different forms?

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: Hippocampus]
    #23461487 -

Quote:
Are new spirits or souls or whatever ever created, or does a static number of souls just hop around to different forums?


I visited The Pub once. :yesnod:


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23461507 -

Soul creation and dissolution I think those are in line with the idea behind the ego, the universe is eternal therefore the spirit is eternal there is no start and end point. Terms like beginning and end are "ego" references or conceptions of the flesh (birth and death) as a human.

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23461710 -

I was a good chipmunk. My two brothers and I were in a musical group and lived with this guy named Dave.


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Re: Reincarnation [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #23461814 -

tdubz said:
If you came back as an animal you wouldn't know that you were a human before. If you come back as a human again



humans are animals

:shrug:




OrgoneConclusion said:
Let me get this straight: if you were a bad person (and no one can agree what that means) you come back as a lower animal.

Lower animals have no morals and are guided strictly by instinct, yet if they are a good chipmunk (or whatever) they get to come back as a human.

:epicfacepalm:



mildly ridiculous, eh?


i look at the concept of reincarnation like this:  bodies are made up of elements.  as a body develops from birth through adulthood, one is absorbing elements (and, if human, converting sunlight into Vitamin D; if a plant, converting sunlight into carbohydrates) generally more than dispersing elements.  As the body declines and leads to death and through decomposition, the accumulation of elements also declines.  If one's body decomposes back into that from which it came (food web, not a womb :tongue:), all the elements of the body are in some redistributed to other lifeforms. 

As those elements are redistributed, they are aiding in the formation of single celled- and "low-level" multi-celled ORGAN-ISMS, thus perpetuating life.



now if you want to get all kooky and throw some "soul" nonsense into it, that's fine.  however, i'm of the opinion that there is no soul and that all beings, to however large or small a degree, are aware (as humans often use a "soul" to explain our level of awareness)






tdubz said:
Soul creation and dissolution I think those are in line with the idea behind the ego, the universe is eternal therefore the spirit is eternal there is no start and end point. Terms like beginning and end are "ego" references or conceptions of the flesh (birth and death) as a human.




saying that the universe is eternal is a pretty large leap of faith.  considering individual components of this universe phase in and out, i'm not sure what you're basing that on


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channel your inner Larry David

Edited by demiu5 (07/21/16 09:21 AM)

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: demiu5]
    #23461977 -

several things come to mind. . . one is - recently i heard Amma reply to the question this way...,  rebirth has to happen in the present... 

and - then it also occurs to me that in these traditions (Buddhism and Hinduism i am basically saying), all  re-birth occurs within Samsara; and it is basically, ultimately illusion. 

Or - in other words, like the Heart Sutra  says, 'There is no birth, no death,'.... etc.

so to examine such things - it's also good to see that in the traditions - it goes to a slightly higher level at some point (in this case, the famous sutra).

Alan Watts wrote about karma , or rather talked, kind of like this too - but - he had 5 wives so. . . :p hehe. . .

but, um, yah - karma for instance. . . cause and effect ; yet, the higher levels are about how to be free of karma, and a lot of that is

simply knowing one is free. . . A.W. gave the pretty example - the wake of a toy boat, on the water. . .

that is its past - and it isn't being pushed by it at all; but rather, ... etc. :smile: hehe

just some thoughts..  A.W. talked about karma interestingly - like how it's not descriptive of the total reality -- and it's sort of a ...

well, i already pointed out... some of his limitations :-P  .... he was brilliant, but he only got to a certain level...

(one that clearly didn't get all the way there.... but... there's still a lot of good :smile: )

but --- let's see, he put it like , kinda like one can take a short-cut , and realize it from the start....

in other words -- saying there is no karma, no reincarnation -- is what someone who does not believe in them says -- and it is also what is there at the 'end' of those traditions,

so that's all.


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Yuki Kaai
Dee D - Red Flight   
Boney M - Lady Godiva
Raa Maa - Durga Gayatri Mantra
Amanda Lear - Enigma (give a bit of hmm to me)
the [un]official Tara Brach thread

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: demiu5]
    #23462252 -

The universe an or parallel universes are eternal IMO the conception of time is a human construct. To date the universe is a rather ignorant fallacy...and to doubt that there could be multiple universes as well.

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Re: Reincarnation [Re: tdubz]
    #23462317 -

Quote:
the conception of time is a human construct


Name one concept that is not a human construct.

Quote:
To date the universe is a rather ignorant fallacy...


The same physics that allows us to communicate in this fashion - oh never mind! :rolleyes:


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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