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Income Taxes Voluntary?
    #4752233 -

I was reading around, and I found these two quotes about the United States' income tax.

Quote:
"The tax system is based on voluntary compliance." Federal Tax Regulations, Section 601.602.


Quote:
"Taxpayers in the United States assess their tax liabilities against themselves and pay them voluntarily. This system of assessment and payment is based on the principle of voluntary compliance." Internal Revenue Manual, Section 20:123 (7/15/96).


Quote:
Of course, the Government can collect the tax from a District Court suitor by exercising its power of distraint ~ if he does not split his action ~ but we cannot believe that compelling resort to this extraordinary measure is either wise or in accord with congressional intent. Our system of taxation is based upon voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint." US Supreme Court, Flora v. United States, 362 US 179, 80 S.Ct. 630 (1960).


Quote:
"Let me point this out now. Your income tax is 100 percent voluntary tax, and your liquor tax is 100 percent enforced tax. Now the situation is as different as day and night. Consequently, your same rules just will not apply." Testimony of Dwight E. Avis, Head of the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division of the Bureau of Internal Revenue, before the House Ways and Means Committee on Restructuring the IRS (83rd Congress, 1953).


http://www.nakedgov.com/beresford.htm

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Re: Income Taxes Voluntary? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4752277 -

Let's try a little experiment. Don't pay your taxes and let's see what the government does to you.

I have a friend who was really good friends with some people who were in a "no tax" movement out in Las Vegas. They had read somewhere in the Constitution how the executive branch has no power to collect taxes or something like that. Since the I.R.S. is in the executive branch, it is not allowed to collect taxes and therefore the organization and its practises are unconstitutional.

All of those "no tax" guys are in jail now by the way.

Edited by RandalFlagg (10/03/05 11:24 PM)

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Re: Income Taxes Voluntary? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #4752297 -

Yeah, I'm not stupid enough to actually do something like that. I just think that it is mind-bogglingly idiotic to put language like that in your tax code. What the fuck were they thinking?

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Re: Income Taxes Voluntary? [Re: Redstorm] * 1
    #4752319 -

Redstorm said:
Yeah, I'm not stupid enough to actually do something like that. I just think that it is mind-bogglingly idiotic to put language like that in your tax code. What the fuck were they thinking?


My mom is an accountant. She has her CPA license. She got a 3.99 GPA in college and has several degrees (accounting, finance, and international business I believe). Needless to say, she is a smart lady. She can barely understand the tax code. She needs to sit there and read it over and over again to even begin to vaguely understand what the I.R.S. maybe is trying to say. And she finds blatant contradictions and fuck-ups all of the time.

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Re: Income Taxes Voluntary? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4754945 -

Taxes are voulentary for some... I think that its only some religious groups like the Amish and other hard core religious groups that are exempt from taxes and military drafting and such.. They dont get to vote or hold positions in office or participate in government in any way..

But they dont have to pay taxes.

One thing I do know is that you can elect to pay your total tax bill just once every year.. You can then take what you would have paid in taxes every month, invest it and if things go well you could possibly make as much as you owe off your investment(s).

Wealthy people do this and instead of actually paying taxes they earn money. Still they have to give hundreds of thousands to the government every year.


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             

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Re: Income Taxes Voluntary? [Re: GabbaDj]
    #4755122 -

From No Treason - The Constitution of No Authority: III. by Lysander Spooner

It is true that the theory of our Constitution is, that all taxes are paid voluntarily; that our government is a mutual insurance company, voluntarily entered into by the people with each other; that each man makes a free and purely voluntary contract with all others who are parties to the Constitution, to pay so much money for so much protection, the same as he does with any other insurance company; and that he is just as free not to be protected, and not to pay tax, as he is to pay a tax, and be protected.

But this theory of our government is wholly different from the practical fact. The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: "Your money, or your life." And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.

The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the roadside, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a "protector," and that he takes men's money against their will, merely to enable him to "protect" those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful "sovereign," on account of the "protection" he affords you. He does not keep "protecting" you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villainies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave.


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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'

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hi [Re: Ancalagon]
    #4755230 -

you think it matters to the current government what some silly old little piece of paper says??

HA!

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Re: hi [Re: nonick]
    #4755391 -

nonick said:
you think it matters to the current government what some silly old little piece of paper says??

HA!


Nor has it mattered for the past hundred years. Paying taxes still is voluntary in a way, that being the will of the majority. Consider that many, many people in the US actually want to pay even more taxes in exchange for hurricane protection, money redistribution programs, gas subsidies, you name it and people want to pay the feds to do it.

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Re: hi [Re: Catalysis] * 1
    #4755509 -

What ever happened to the "get it on your own" mentality? All the tax-hike socialists should move to Canada.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

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Re: hi [Re: daimyo]
    #4756107 -

Na, in Canada, it actually feels like you get something from you're taxes.

(And there not really all that much more, at least in or case, unless you're in Washington or Vermont, and that's only because there is no state income tax. If you're making 150k or more Canada is then a lot more pricey, but I don't fit into that group yet. For instance in Washington we took home 75% after taxes, now currently we take 69%, but I remind you that was in a state with no income tax.)

I've known a few people to get away with not paying taxes(In America) for 20+ years.

One thing though. One of my friends spent a while in a Federal work camp. He said EVERY SINGE one of the people in there for not paying there taxes talked about the constitution at there trials.

Basically if you start to talk about how technically no one has to pay taxes, they throw you away before you tell anyone. But if you play you're cards right and be a 'conscientious objector' of sorts, you have a better chance of success.

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Re: hi [Re: Anisotropic]
    #4756125 -

Ya, I'm sure we could afford all the same social programs Canada has if we were to reduce our military spending to the level necessary for our defense. But I'd rather just reduce that spending anyway and give it back to the taxpayers.


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Re: hi [Re: Silversoul]
    #4756146 -

Well I mean that's the jist of it. Canadian people would rather spend tax money on helping out there citizens, then bombing what ever brown people are deemed 'evil' this decade.

I would rather have more of the money though. But some social programs are okay, the ones that bother me the least relate to health care. I don't mind everyone getting cheap health care.

Edited by Anisotropic (10/04/05 09:10 PM)

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Re: hi [Re: Anisotropic]
    #4756148 -

And I'd rather do neither, and just not tax as much in the first place.


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Re: hi [Re: Silversoul]
    #22900047 -

Wow, there were actually alot more cool conservatives here back then.

Anyways, a voluntary tax would be fucking awesome. The bill gates and buffets of the world could pay their 70% tax rates they "claim" to support and people like me could keep my piddly little wages for myself and my family.

Here's another idea, it would be nice if people had to actually write out a check every payday for their taxes. None of this automatically deducted BS, I GAURANTEE in a matter of months, there would be a revolt! But with the auto deduction, the sheep are sheepified, baaaaaah!

And yet another brilliant idea from yours truly is to hold elections right after tax time. Yeah, I bet we'd see some different fucking results then! Do any of you honestly think it's a coincidence that tax time is about as far away from the elections as possible?

Anyone one else have ideas for tax reform?


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: hi [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #22900075 -

Yes, my current favorite ideas on tax reforms can be found here: https://berniesanders.com/the-sanders-corporate-tax-reform-plan/ :cool:


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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Re: hi [Re: airclay]
    #22900271 -

airclay said:
Yes, my current favorite ideas on tax reforms can be found here: https://berniesanders.com/the-sanders-corporate-tax-reform-plan/ :cool:


My bad, I should have asked for NEW ideas, not old worn out proven to be unsustainable ideas, my bad, sorry about that...


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: hi [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22902983 -

They use nasty methods to get what they think is their due. They will take anything of value from you if you let them. Their primary weapon to do this is that they get you on the reporting technicality of FILING itself. You MUST FILE every year as accurately as possible, your tax paperwork. However, there is nothing to enforce your payment of what you "owe" them. They may try legal means to try, but if your paperwork is up to date, they can't really get you, especially if you have a conscientious reason for NOT paying what they think you owe them. Am example of a simple and valid objection would be: "I'll be willing to contribute and pay income taxes if the government can manage their budget in a responsible and effective way. To pay the taxes now would be a waste of money, and i conscientiously object to the wanton and reckless spending of money that i earned."

Sadly, their meat and potatoes comes from working stiff's W2s. They more or less arm twist employers into compliance, and so withhold the taxes from everyone who is paid by a business entity as an employee. When you sign the W2, you are really making a contractual and voluntary agreement to pay the tax rate the IRS wants. Don't sign it, and the employer is told they cannot hire you by the IRS which is a boldface lie. They have a legal right to effectively hire you anyway if they chose to. The only difference is you would be on board as an independent contractor AT WILL rather than an true employee.

The real reason for this is so that the majority cannot starve the government of money to fund unpopular political agendas like the war on drugs, or things like the second Iraq war.. It effectively neuters the first amendment Constitutional right to freedom of protest. Gather, assemble, hold up your signs, sit in- what good is it if they still squeeze money from you to fund whatever you are protesting? Food for thought indeed!

Interested in stuff like this? Read Dave Ramsey's books. The guy knows how to manage wealth and at the same time is down to earth on how to get out of and stay out of debt for good.


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"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.

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Re: hi [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #22903026 -

Love Dave Ramsey, he's awesome.

The fact is, the govt will take whatever they can, and yes, they will send you to prison if there is even a smidgeon of proof you lied on your returns, look up Wesley Snipes if you don't think they will.

The best we can hope for is to vote for people that want to actually reign in the power of the federal govt. the irs is a corrupt and evil entity, they use tax exempt status to harrass their political enemies. A flat tax would be much better.


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http://www.countdowntotrump.com




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Re: hi [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22903117 -

....

Edited by akira_akuma (06/14/17 05:51 PM)

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Re: hi [Re: hostileuniverse]
    #22903390 -

hostileuniverse said:
A flat tax would be much better.


A flat tax would be a HUGE burden on the bottom 50% of the country, and a HUGE break for the wealthy.

Why is so important to conservatives that more and more people be pushed into poverty?  :tongue:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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