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OfflineKremlin
life in E minor
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Registered: 06/07/01
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morning head scratcher
    #2246212 - 01/16/04 03:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

"The point which i want first to understand is whether the holy is loved by the gods because it is holy, or holy because it is loved b y the gods."
Plato's, Euthyphro

i know its like a basic philosophical class exercise, but i was just thinking about it, and thought it might spawn some interesting convo here :smile:

--Kremlin


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: morning head scratcher [Re: Kremlin]
    #2246238 - 01/16/04 03:51 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I think something is supposed to be holy if it is either recognized by the religion as sacred, or if it has religious purity, whatever that means. 

see the thing is though is like holy ground for example.  a certain piece of that ground is sacred, not because god said so but because people think so.  if one sits and thinks about it, why would one piece of this beautiful earth be any better than the rest?    easy, because humans said so, not god, especially since god cupposedly created everything.

so it would be in my opinion then that we wouldn't really be able to define what god loves or not.  holy would be a quality of something or as it says in the dictionary, and adjective. again jsut an opinion :grin:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineKremlin
life in E minor
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Re: morning head scratcher [Re: kaiowas]
    #2246246 - 01/16/04 03:56 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i agree that a good definition of holy is that which is recognized by humans.  But that, of course, opens up many more questions.  But i still like it :smile:.

This euthyphro question was part of a larger one that socrates posed, simply "What is holiness?"

--Kremlin


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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Offlinenubious
1up on the rest

Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
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Re: morning head scratcher [Re: Kremlin]
    #2246281 - 01/16/04 04:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I feel that the holy are less revered by the gods for claiming that they are holy.


--------------------
No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.


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Invisiblekaiowas
mndfrayze'speppet urme
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Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,498
Loc: oz
Re: morning head scratcher [Re: Kremlin]
    #2246299 - 01/16/04 04:21 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

heh what does euthyphro mean? my dictionary doesn't have that word :smile:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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OfflineKremlin
life in E minor
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Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 1,860
Loc: /export/home/Kremlin
Last seen: 4 months, 2 days
Re: morning head scratcher [Re: kaiowas]
    #2246747 - 01/16/04 07:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Euthyphro is the name of the other main character in the story

--Kremlin


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: morning head scratcher [Re: Kremlin]
    #2247262 - 01/16/04 11:46 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

in the abscence of god, how then shall we live -neitcshze (paraphrapsed and mispelled)
he talks about the absurdity of claiming anything is HOLIER than life, that is of eschewing this life in hopes of a better one after death. Forgoing the concept that there is a great god sitting on a cloud in heaven creating everything and claiming that THIS is holy and THIS dross, we must decide what is holy for our selves, based only on our own feelings (not our thoughts, for it is beyond our logical faculties to understand the holy)
when you see a girl and say WOW that is holy!
when you look into said girls eyes and realise you love her and she loves you back THAT is very holy!
when you see a sun rise and it moves something inside of you to wonder at the beauty of life that is holy!
when men in sackcloth robes sit in fantastically adorned cathedrals of gold and ivory (amidst slums and masses of starving humanity) and read in monotone voices from huge leather bound books a thousand years old THAT is insanity, and worse.  :razz:


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