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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. * 1
    #21326744 -

I posted this in the psychedelic experience thread, since I know dosage discussion isn't allowed, but my question isn't about dosage so much as potency of named cultivars.  I don't know that most of the people in the PE forum have used any of the named ones as much as bought the skin or random cuts from the internet, so maybe I'll get more looks/discussion in the ethno forum.

Link to PE forum thread
So from my research, it looks like bridgesii are the most consistent for actives and the peruvian/pachs can be all over the place.  My question is concerning the named cultivars of these species.  IE how potent are Juul's Giant,TPQC (pachs), Icaros, SS01(peruvians), Lumberjack, Big Bertha, Helen, SS02 (bridgesiis) etc.  I realize there are a lot of variables from time of harvest to growing conditions etc.  I've got limited space and was looking into a few hybrids and and looking at a bunch of different factors to see which ones will make the cut.

I did get a response from one ethno forum contributor which is what made me consider making a thread here in the first place.  He mentioned that the Icaros are mostly seed grown, so are variable.  Taking that into consideration, I know that all of the hybrids from seed will be variable as well, but I'd like to at least up my odds by growing hybrids that have parents with consistent genes to pass on.

Also curious about cacti breeding knowledge, for instance is it known which parent has more influence on the resulting offspring seeds.  Will they typically favor the mother or the father?  I remember reading some where about crossing lophs that the mother will influence the flower and skin color (I think those were the traits) more than the father.

Are there any links to places that have a good list of the named trichocereus cultivars with pictures and descriptions of what makes the named cultivar so special?  Any things you fellow ethno gardeners have noticed about certain cultivars that make them worth growing?  Potential potency is only one of the things I'm considering as criteria for my selection, gnarly spines, unique spine color, skin color, cold hardiness etc will also be considered.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21327231 -

:threadmonitor:


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One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'



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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: cowsRmeat]
    #21327483 -

You just gotta taste them. It's a conflicting subject with many doing an :ifyoucanawe: face but that's what I believe. There is some i must eliminate from my collection. Beauty will win over potency but yes. I gotta eliminate some. :wink:

Now as far as the aforementioned cacti go,:hmm:

I have icaro toeches. As for potency, I don't know. I never bioessayed and never tasted. And seed is the common form to grow unless you can get a cutting from someone which will still be hit  or miss.

And as for crossing to trichs for potency, bioessay a few and the most potent cross them. I have no experience with this and have just barely started growing columns frm seed. As you stated before seeds do have different genetic makeup and could produce many resulting offspring.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #21327611 -

ferrel_human said:
You just gotta taste them. It's a conflicting subject with many doing an :ifyoucanawe: face but that's what I believe. There is some i must eliminate from my collection. Beauty will win over potency but yes. I gotta eliminate some. :wink:

Now as far as the aforementioned cacti go,:hmm:

I have icaro toeches. As for potency, I don't know. I never bioessayed and never tasted. And seed is the common form to grow unless you can get a cutting from someone which will still be hit  or miss.

And as for crossing to trichs for potency, bioessay a few and the most potent cross them. I have no experience with this and have just barely started growing columns frm seed. As you stated before seeds do have different genetic makeup and could produce many resulting offspring.


See I'm trying to maximize both beauty an potency in my very limited space lol.  I know bridgesii are typically recommended for consistent potency so I reckon any bridgesii cultivar crosses have a good shot at fitting the bill.  In the PE forum post it was mentioned that the Juul's was known for being pretty low potency.  Isn't it bridgesii, peruvian, pachanoi (I think that's the general consensus I've read here in the EG).  With the pachs being the most hit or miss as far as potency?   
Are any of the more popular circulated cultivars named and circulated because of their potency?  Or are they all selected, named and passed around due to aesthetics and some just happen to be potent?  Damn the cacti world can get confusing lol.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21327655 -

I think torches are more hit or miss.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #21327733 -

Ahh I knew it was one of the P's that was hit or miss.  So maybe for starters stick with any crosses that have bridgesii in them with pachs crosses coming in second.  Looking at my list of prospective wants that doesn't narrow it down much lol.  Doesn't look like I had but 1 or 2 crosses with peruvian any way.
All though with nicehrisman saying the juul's being low potency, kind of hesitant to get anymore of those crosses.  I already have some juuls X ss02 and validus X juul's seedlings growing from last summer.  Althought juul's X big bertha hybrid would probably make for some fat ass cacti, potency be damned.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: ferrel_human]
    #21327742 -

Honestly I find named clones overrated most of the time although there are a few exceptions.

Most named cacti are likely potent. The most 'potent' is a little subjective however Pachanoi clones should contain the most mescaline content. Bridgesii seem to have a 'maoi-like' compound that helps potency but also changes the experience; more speedy rather than dreamy. Torches are most hit and miss, if not a named clone, as they could be a misidentified cuzco.

I'd say get 1 or 2 named clones if you want and forget the rest; any bridgesii and any pachanoi will do. Than just multiply and grow them out.

Hell even PC pachanoi are enough; just grow them and extract/reduce so you don't consume large amounts.

If you consider growing seeds just pick which ever you think sounds cool or may look nice; they are all about the same. By the time they are harvesting age/size you will have soo much you don't even care about the potency of individuals.

Now if you are VERY limited in space I'd say graft lophos and eat those along with some pc pachanoi.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21327770 -

MrGiraffe said:
Ahh I knew it was one of the P's that was hit or miss.  So maybe for starters stick with any crosses that have bridgesii in them with pachs crosses coming in second.  Looking at my list of prospective wants that doesn't narrow it down much lol.  Doesn't look like I had but 1 or 2 crosses with peruvian any way.
All though with nicehrisman saying the juul's being low potency, kind of hesitant to get anymore of those crosses.  I already have some juuls X ss02 and validus X juul's seedlings growing from last summer.  Althought juul's X big bertha hybrid would probably make for some fat ass cacti, potency be damned.


Juul's are not low potency; they just have low potency relative to some other clones that are out there. Most of which are not easy or cheap to obtain.

Juuls have around 1.4% mescaline.

Like you mentioned juul are used in crosses for girth and rate of growth.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: modern.shaman]
    #21327947 -

Good stuff MS!  Any thoughts on macs?  I'll probably end up with at least 1 mac hybrid just because I like fat cacti lol.

I saw the trip comparisons of the bridge/pach on another forum in my search, good to see that confirmed here in the EG.  Whenever I do eventually consume some, I think I'd prefer the more dreamy state to the speedy one.  Something else to consider when choosing crosses and eventually trying them out years down the road.  Speaking of years down the road.  When growing from seed, whats the typical time frame for being big enough to take cuts for multiplying stock? 

I've got a few older lophs that I'm never going to touch for seed stock, but I did start some from seed a few months back that I've grafted and are pupping that I'll make more grafts with for stock to consume.  Hell if the lophs can provide enough seeds each year then I can start yearly batches from seed for consumption and leave the OG mothers be.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21328133 -

IDK much about mac to me they are just a hybrid between pachanoi and peruvianus but :shrug:

You can start propagating a seedling at any time just cut and graft; leaving the base to pup. I'd wait at least a year or two so you can start seeing some traits.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: modern.shaman]
    #21328176 -

Using the tip for a small impale graft on peres, or some of the bigger grafting stocks. I actually did that with some that weren't quite a year old just to practice grafting.  What's the growth rate on trichs from seedlings though?  I've seen the foot/yr but that number is usually tied to established plants or thick rooted cuttings.  I got some 1.5yr old peruvians a while back that were started from seed and they were probably about 6" tall with a 1" diameter.  I know that it will depend on their growing conditions like lighting etc, but  for all you experienced seed starters how many years until it's of a substantial size?


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21341577 -

MrGiraffe said:
Using the tip for a small impale graft on peres, or some of the bigger grafting stocks. I actually did that with some that weren't quite a year old just to practice grafting.  What's the growth rate on trichs from seedlings though?  I've seen the foot/yr but that number is usually tied to established plants or thick rooted cuttings.  I got some 1.5yr old peruvians a while back that were started from seed and they were probably about 6" tall with a 1" diameter.  I know that it will depend on their growing conditions like lighting etc, but  for all you experienced seed starters how many years until it's of a substantial size?


I've only ever grafted one trich to pereskiopsis, It is about 10" now, grafted winter of 2013/14
(SS01×SS02)×Kimnach. 1st year under CFL, 2nd year it went out to the greenhouse, and now in dormancy, still on its short pereskiopsis stock.



T. bridgesii from seed in 5 years, 30". 1 foot of that was put on in the 5th year (free root run, not in a pot)


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●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||

You must gather your party before venturing forth.

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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: modern.shaman]
    #21345735 -

modern.shaman said:
MrGiraffe said:
Ahh I knew it was one of the P's that was hit or miss.  So maybe for starters stick with any crosses that have bridgesii in them with pachs crosses coming in second.  Looking at my list of prospective wants that doesn't narrow it down much lol.  Doesn't look like I had but 1 or 2 crosses with peruvian any way.
All though with nicehrisman saying the juul's being low potency, kind of hesitant to get anymore of those crosses.  I already have some juuls X ss02 and validus X juul's seedlings growing from last summer.  Althought juul's X big bertha hybrid would probably make for some fat ass cacti, potency be damned.


Juul's are not low potency; they just have low potency relative to some other clones that are out there. Most of which are not easy or cheap to obtain.

Juuls have around 1.4% mescaline.

Like you mentioned juul are used in crosses for girth and rate of growth.


Very interesting.  Anyone else have feedback on Juul's?


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IT WAS ALL A DREAM

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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: Grey Fox]
    #21350883 -

I can't remember seeing any quantitative measurements of mescaline content in named clones other than the one done on Juul's Giant.  I can't find the link at the moment but as I recall, Juul's Giant was tested to be at around the same percentage as average pachanoi.  The advantage though is that Juul's grows faster and bigger therefore you'd get a greater yield overall.  Thus, I believe the theory behind all of the Juul's hybrids is that you take a fast grower (Juul's) and mix it with a high potency (SS02, Psycho.0, etc.) and you could end up with a fast growing, high potency hybrid. 

My own personal opinion is that you if you sow 100 seeds of whatever bridgesii you can find, you have a chance of at least one of them having greater than normal alkaloid content.  If you find that one and propagate it, you can then slap a "clone name" on it and then it will be yet another in the myriad of clones floating around.  Based on what is out there on the web, the only verifiable difference I can find between different clones is their appearance and size, basically no one offers any real bioassays or extraction results of named clones.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: BigHeart]
    #21351180 -

Man I might have to rethink my list now. There's something about a fat ass column lol.
:waitingpatiently:  to make an order.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21351345 -

The corroboree on the shaman-australus forum has a lot of threads on named clones.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: BigHeart]
    #21351452 -

Yea I joined up today.  I have't had a chance to really look through the forum though and I'm still waiting on approval.


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Re: Named cultivars of trichocereus sp. [Re: MrGiraffe]
    #21352060 -

Thanks for the info BigHeart.


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IT WAS ALL A DREAM

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