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Offlinerintin
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Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 33
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
enlightenment
    #2002156 - 10/12/03 10:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i have been studying a lot about buddhism(mostly zen) lately and have a few questions to ask on the subject.  i know lay people have achieved satori(i guess this is the right use of this word.  permanent enlightenment?) before, but do you think in this day and age that it is possible to do so?  is it possible to do so without a teacher today and as a lay person?  is the noble eightfold path a strict guideline that must be followed exactly to achieve enlightenment?  why is meditation so hard for me to do every day? :frown: :wink: 


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002256 - 10/12/03 12:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> why is meditation so hard for me to do every day?

You last question is the answer to all your previous questions.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineTheEggman
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: enlightenment [Re: Seuss]
    #2002265 - 10/12/03 12:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Because you can't silence your mind. Don't think so much.

And Buddha made the four noble truths and the noble eightfold path in order that laymen could become Buddhists and follow the same path he did to achieve enlightenment. Remember, Buddha had no noble eightfold path to follow, and he was quite successful in becoming enlightened.


--------------------
Peace and love,
Tim.


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Offlinerintin
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Re: enlightenment [Re: TheEggman]
    #2002274 - 10/12/03 12:54 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

thanks a lot guys. i guess i'll just stick to meditating everyday. any tips that ya'll could share to help me keep at it? how long should a beginner meditate each day? as long as possible? i have plenty of time on my hands, but it is so hard to get into the right mindset for meditation. also, do ya'll strive to be more mindful during daily life? can you tell me some exercises that you found helpful? one last thing, what do you guys think of the fifth basic precept? no drugs? i love drugs!


Edited by rintin (10/12/03 12:57 PM)


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Offlinerintin
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002291 - 10/12/03 01:02 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

one more question. i have read that many people who are enlightened have trouble relating things to un-enlightened people. after enlightenment, is it possible to hold an ordinary conversation like before?


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Offlinemoogle
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Registered: 10/03/03
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002302 - 10/12/03 01:11 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rintin said:
...i guess i'll just stick to meditating everyday. any tips that ya'll could share to help me keep at it?




When you are hungry, eat.

When you are tired, sleep.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


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Offlinerintin
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Re: enlightenment [Re: moogle]
    #2002303 - 10/12/03 01:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

and what about in between...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002329 - 10/12/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rintin said:
and what about in between... 




Meditate. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinerintin
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Re: enlightenment [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2002335 - 10/12/03 01:30 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

but then i would lose my lay person title...


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002336 - 10/12/03 01:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

By meditating? A lot of people meditate without even knowing it..

Focus is the name of the game. Focusing on nothing is when it gets fun... :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinerintin
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 33
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: enlightenment [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2002340 - 10/12/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

no, i mean if all i do is meditate while i'm not eating or sleeping.


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Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002342 - 10/12/03 01:38 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rintin said:
no, i mean if all i do is meditate while i'm not eating or sleeping.





How do you know when you're meditating, if you're not eating or sleeping?


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002344 - 10/12/03 01:39 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rintin said:
no, i mean if all i do is meditate while i'm not eating or sleeping.





I think it is entirely possible to meditate doing anything... it just takes a lot of practice, I guess. Isn't meditation the same thing as like Zen? I don't know enough to really say anything, but meditation is basically living in the Here and Now and having full focus, right? Or is meditation only sitting still and clearing your mind of thoughts? I really don't know, someone a bit more experienced help me out..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinerintin
Stranger
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 33
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: enlightenment [Re: moogle]
    #2002345 - 10/12/03 01:41 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

i don't understand


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Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002349 - 10/12/03 01:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How do you meditate?


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


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Offlinerintin
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Re: enlightenment [Re: moogle]
    #2002353 - 10/12/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

by sitting on a pillow in my room and staring at a candle. when i have thoughts, i acknowledge them, then try to push them out of my mind. how about you?


Edited by rintin (10/12/03 01:48 PM)


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Offlinemoogle
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Registered: 10/03/03
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002366 - 10/12/03 01:56 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

You should push the pillow, room, and candle from your mind instead. Then you'll have nothing to think about.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


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Offlinerintin
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Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 33
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: enlightenment [Re: moogle]
    #2002370 - 10/12/03 02:00 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

does that mean i shouldn't use them? and are you a real moogle?


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002376 - 10/12/03 02:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

> i have read that many people who are enlightened have trouble relating things to un-enlightened people. after enlightenment, is it possible to hold an ordinary conversation like before?

I see this a lot with people that are new to eastern philosophy. For some reason people get it into their minds that Monks or enlightened people are somehow special, different, or holy compared to the rest of us. This isn't the case. These people are no different than you or I. They have good days, and bad days, and make mistakes just like the rest of us.

Enlightenment doesn't make life any easier, or different. It is like tasting chocolate for the first time. Having tasted chocolate, you can relate to the taste and how others describe the taste, but it doesn't change you as a person.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinemoogle
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Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
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Re: enlightenment [Re: rintin]
    #2002377 - 10/12/03 02:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It doesn't mean anything.

Quote:

are you a real moogle?



Your choice.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


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