Home | Community | Message Board


Crestline Sales - MycoPath
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Language: Eliminative or Inclusive?
    #2000657 - 10/11/03 06:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I was discussing language with a friend a while back and it became apparent in our discussion that when he talks, his goal is to eliminate ideas until the only remaining thing is the idea he was attempting to transmit..

I've always kind of thought of it the other way - when I talk I'm not really thinking about what the idea ISN'T, I'm mainly just trying to point out the idea above others, not really trying to eliminate ideas that I'm not trying to transmit.

I found this very interesting.. "Which way do you swing?"

I guess I do both but the majority of my communication is aimed towards like "JUST SAYING IT!" not really excluding everything except the idea.. Don't know if this makes sense lol feel free to go "huh?" and I'll attempt to elaborate later :smile:

Is your glass half full?


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblereflectedlight
in town untilthe blood flows
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 926
Loc: aether
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2000736 - 10/11/03 06:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I think I am generally type "what is" not "what is not", but change depending on the situation and mood.


--------------------
at this point i think we can be relatively certain seperation exists as a fallacy of finite perception, and the only barrier to infinite creativity is a preimposed notion of certainty and artificial conditioning. nothing is without origin


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineDeiymiyan
I AM

Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 656
Loc: Within the Realm of Imagi...
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2002314 - 10/12/03 01:18 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When I can't quite put my finger on a particular idea that I am trying to convey, sometimes I try the "what it is not" method until I somewhat pinpoint what it could be.. Once I touch upon what it seems to be, I try to go into more detail, first using analogy [to relate it to something] and then using example [thereby illustrating it further].


Generally speaking, I use the eliminative concept when dealing with "new issues" relative to my vantage point and inclusive methods when discussing subject matter with others.





--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2002360 - 10/12/03 01:51 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Strumpling said:
I was discussing language with a friend a while back and it became apparent in our discussion that when he talks, his goal is to eliminate ideas until the only remaining thing is the idea he was attempting to transmit..




I sometimes play 20 questions, too.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 13 years, 7 days
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2004110 - 10/13/03 01:48 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I never thought about that. It's sort of a linear vs. non-linear question. Vely intelesting. I suppose I try a direct line, but I'd wager that's not always the most effective.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,714
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2004137 - 10/13/03 01:57 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When I talk about an idea, I think more about ideas which are connected to the idea I am trying to transmit. I try to express these related concepts first in a manner which suits the individual I am talking to and in order to bring them to the realisation of the topic idea just before or as I express the idea I am trying to transmit.

Is that what you were asking?  :smirk:


--------------------
BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: trendal]
    #2004191 - 10/13/03 02:16 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"Is that what you were asking?"

kind of - you had said you attempt to transmit the general "subject" of the idea.. When you're doing this, does it feel like you're zooming in on the idea or kind of sparking it? heh maybe this question is nonsense - that being said:

I suppose one could use the same wording in either mindset, I just thought it was an interesting example of a whole world of difference in brain activity that still externalizes the same.

My friend was saying that when he's describing something, he's thinking about how every word he's saying is eliminating other possibilities and like narrowing it down to his idea.. I see exactly what he means but I don't percieve it that way when I'm actually communicating - I see it as instead of kind of zooming in on a thought, its more like I'm starting at fuzzy zero and zooming out of it or something..

They're both doing the same thing, but from different perspectives I suppose

yin and yang..


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (10/13/03 02:23 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,714
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2004200 - 10/13/03 02:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Ahh, I see what you mean.

Instead of eliminating ideas with each word and phrase, I try to add supportive ideas to the one I am trying to convey.

yin and yang  :smirk:

PS:
When you're doing this, does it feel like you're zooming in on the idea or kind of sparking it?
I'd say it's kind of like sparking it in the other person. I feel that if I help them to come to an idea on their own it will give them a more complete understanding of the concept. I think that if I just give out the answer to something (or an idea) then the understanding the person gets immediately may not be complete as maybe they do not know or understand why what I'm saying is what I'm saying. If you get what I mean there  :smirk:


--------------------
BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


Edited by trendal (10/13/03 02:30 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: trendal]
    #2004223 - 10/13/03 02:30 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

that's an excellent description :smile:

I just thought of a situation where I consider it eliminative: for something that is intended to be a SUPRISE, I hold off on parts of the idea to build momentum and intentionally attempt to eliminate almost no ideas from focus until POW "I BUMPED UGLIES WITH YOUR SISTER!"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (10/13/03 02:32 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,714
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: Strumpling]
    #2004236 - 10/13/03 02:34 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Lol!

I know exactly what you're talking about there! I like to do the same thing sometimes. Especially if the info I'm about to relate is going to be shocking to begin with! Kind of like a joke designed to teach :smirk:


--------------------
BTC - 1KqrSHZ1C3NsQP4g3PkHhppBnhdgyXr6sB


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGeeno
member
Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 203
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: trendal]
    #2004632 - 10/13/03 08:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I just talk, and I think. Theyre seperate processes and many ex-girlfriends can tell you that mine just dont work togethor.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinemoogle
newbie

Registered: 10/03/03
Posts: 49
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: Geeno]
    #2005167 - 10/13/03 02:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

When I speak through written language -- having a large time to think about what I'm going to say -- I read and re-write what I'm writing, until what I read convincingly agitates thought in the direction that I am currently thinking. When I speak freely, through speech, I choose prose which I know by experience most people will understand, and... perhaps instantaneously think through words.

Very curious, I had never really inspected my own language mechanisms before. I've been thinking about it, on and off, since I've read the first post, and the most recent post-readings instigated the above paragraph:P Based on my experience, in that what I say resembles what I think, a person's manner of speech/writing will give more insight into a person's inner-mind than we might realize.


--------------------
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

-- Herbert Spencer


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: moogle]
    #2005212 - 10/13/03 02:25 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

moogle said:
Based on my experience, in that what I say resembles what I think, a person's manner of speech/writing will give more insight into a person's inner-mind than we might realize. 




The more someone continously talks, the more what is going through their mind is instantly coming out, the easier it is to figure out how their minds work...

The ones you have to watch out for are the ones that only talk when they have something to say. You never know what is going through THEIR minds, now do you? :grin:

What is really neat is when I am with my best friend (that is, was, since I am now on the other side of the Atlantic), and how we would be in the same situation and he would say something that I was just thinking.. weird things, at that. Like, someone will say something, and it will remind me of something that reminds me of something else, and then he will like at that moment ask the guy who said something about the same thing that I was led to think about..

It happened all the fucking time. The way our minds work are very similar.. the cool thing is that we are in the same band, him playing lead guitar and me playing bass.. we would fucking sit and both jam out at his house, never really working on the same thing, just basically playing on our own... it is no surpise that we both express ourselves almost exactly the same way on our instruments, we have the same style... :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible2Experimental
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2005360 - 10/13/03 03:26 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

its all about what type of person you are and how you think, if your the beleiver type, you seem go from a "what is" point, non beleivers tend to go for the "what its not", but even if it isent, it still is what it is.... did that make any sense?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2005407 - 10/13/03 03:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

2Experimental said:
its all about what type of person you are and how you think, if your the beleiver type, you seem go from a "what is" point, non beleivers tend to go for the "what its not", but even if it isent, it still is what it is.... did that make any sense? 




Well, everyone's mind operates at least a little differently than anyone else's does. Your experiences, the hardware specifics, and the way your thoughts are handled all have to do with it.

Myself, my mind is pretty chaotic. The name of the game is connections.. I guess my mind early on stressed the relationships between thoughts. Now, when I think one little thought, it instantly leads to many other thoughts, which of course continue to branch out..

Do to the relative speed of the connections being followed, I can really "feel" experiences.. I guess I could only describe it as one thought instantly connecting with all of these other thoughts to sort of fill in everything around the one thought..

A vivid imagination ends up coming with it.. or at least is really aided by this. Let's just say that I would make a hell of a movie maker.. :grin:
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisible2Experimental
Male User Gallery
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #2009571 - 10/14/03 10:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, how you think is pretty cool... thats how my mind works in some categories, and at times, but im not constanly linking things togethor and continuously thinking..well I am always thinking, but not always concious of it.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,851
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 3 days, 19 hours
Re: Language: Eliminative or Inclusive? [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2010795 - 10/15/03 06:41 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

2Experimental said:
Wow, how you think is pretty cool... thats how my mind works in some categories, and at times, but im not constanly linking things togethor and continuously thinking..well I am always thinking, but not always concious of it. 




Heh, it is a valuable skill, I guess.. :grin:

Where it really gets fun is with music. At the moment I am not physically capable of playing bass as much as I want, I went two months without playing and am out of shape...

But yeah. The ability to make connections and follow them is the most important thing in life, I think.. in all forms and on all levels.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Language
( 1 2 all )
CokedUpHobit64 2,091 25 01/25/09 01:08 AM
by Bernackums
* Language and sanity
( 1 2 all )
Epigallo 911 21 02/17/09 01:28 PM
by BlueCoyote
* More on Language
( 1 2 all )
Sclorch 960 20 11/19/03 01:39 AM
by Sclorch
* Shame
( 1 2 all )
Veritas 1,810 26 04/28/06 12:59 AM
by johnstanton
* Language, as the only glue, that will for ever keep us together? Gomp 882 10 09/11/07 01:01 AM
by backfromthedead
* Limitations of Language silversoul7 1,669 17 07/11/03 09:08 PM
by Strumpling
* Language Poll WordlessNature 447 12 02/04/08 12:28 AM
by WordlessNature
* Should an international language be encouraged?
( 1 2 3 all )
Epigallo 3,129 40 08/05/07 04:50 PM
by BlueCoyote

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
921 topic views. 1 members, 9 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Zamnesia.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.062 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 14 queries.