Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Community > The Pub
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Confucian] * 2
    #19608605 -

nice appeals to authority brah

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Asante]
    #19608611 -

Jesus did it.  Any wonder why it's hard to take religious people seriously?  :facepalm:


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: koods] * 3
    #19609376 -

Confucian, I see you do absolutely nothing, nothing whatsoever to explain using the big bang theory why I am wrong, instead you say I must be wrong because its not in line with the book you read.

Show me whats wrong then? How did the singularity in 10-1200 seconds expand itself out of its gravity well that spans lightyears across?

Answer me that.  You have the brilliant book of 500 pages with all the answers. You have almighty google.  Answer me that one.

There's plenty of scientists doubting the big bang, and they are ignored by orthodoxy.



koods said:
Jesus did it.  Any wonder why it's hard to take religious people seriously?  :facepalm:


Did the meaning escape you koods? I said "Jesus did it" because everything springing forth from nothing and defying all laws of physics isnt science, its a supernatural event.

Don't take it from me, READ THIS or any of the books that it references.

I first got put on the trail by Alexander Shulgin in his TiHKAL chapter called "What Big Bang?" and ever since the fire has kept burning.

The Big Bang theory seems elegant, but if you look closely at the details its about as elegant as a rhino in a pink speedo.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Asante]
    #19609912 -

From my understanding none of the fundamental forces of nature as we know them were in play during the big bang because of the enormous energy of it. This is thought to be the case because of the electromagnetic and weak forces which are unified and become one force at a high enough energy level. This is still an unanswered question but it is postulated that all the forces may become unified at a high enough energy level, that is during the big bang. There is no reason to believe that gravity as an independent force existed during the big bang.

I don't think any scientist worth his salt claims the big bang to be the absolute truth. It is still a developing theory in the same way that the Standard Model of particle physics is a developing incomplete theory. This is how science works. Theory is adjusted to match experimental evidence. Theory holds if its predictions are experimentally verified. The Big Bang is the most satisfactory theory out there, at this time, in terms of the beginning of the universe although it is by no means complete.

Furthermore, any scientist worth his salt today will easily forgo a currently held theory for a new theory that totally shatters orthodoxy because that is how modern science developed; what he hold to be intuitive has time and time again proven to be untrue. If you can show holes in current theory like you suggest and have solid evidence, you will win a Nobel prize I guarantee it. I give evidence to Cronin and Fitch who won a Nobel prize for proving a violation of CP symmetry, widely held to be true like other conservation laws.

Edited by ohcrapitsnico (02/23/14 10:31 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: ohcrapitsnico] * 1
    #19610931 -

Quote:
From my understanding none of the fundamental forces of nature as we know them were in play during the big bang because of the enormous energy of it.


They were 10 sec to 20min after the bang when nucleosynthesis had produced all those baryons.. and that conveniently light years away and inexplicably cooled down to prevent mass creation of heavy elements.

And what led up to the Big Bang? If theres a beginning, you are talking creationism. What led up to the big bang? Energy cant be created or disappear so..

Problem? :Trollface:

Quote:
any scientist worth his salt today will easily forgo a currently held theory for a new theory that totally shatters orthodoxy because that is how modern science developed


Thats how it SHOULD work but its not how science DOES work. Most scientists are too invested in their field to toss it all away and start over if new evidence comes in, so they will prevent any want they can new light being shed on what they think they know. For mavericks its impossible to get funding and iuf they have findings, to get them published. Read that article I linked. It makes a pretty solid case for bang skepticism and shows the quackery involved in trying to make the square peg of the Big Bang fit the round hole of what data shows us.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Confucian]
    #19610994 -

Confucian said:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
They are finding stars in our stellar neighborhood all the time that predate the alleged big bang.





Haha that picture made me laugh.

Big bang doubters, whether they realize or not are even more laughable than young earth creationists.

The big bang theory is based not on pure speculation but an overwhelming amount of  reproducible observations. All it would take for the big bang model to be thrown out would be a SINGLE piece of evidence to the contrary yet, as hard as people look with their billion dollar scientific equipment such as the LHC none shows up.

Then you get some internet stoners claiming that they themselves have evidence that the big bang is garbage... awesome! Submit your evidence and change the face of science! Oh wait...


--------------------
date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Asante]
    #19611098 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
New converts are the worst.


in all walks of life, all walks of... hahahaha

koods said:
Jesus did it.  Any wonder why it's hard to take religious people seriously?  :facepalm:


he was joking, maybe?

LOL i love how defensive people get about this shit... everyone wants to the next big wang swanging PHD around these parts, man... oh is it funny. :lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Dawks] * 2
    #19611110 -

Dawks said:
Confucian said:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
They are finding stars in our stellar neighborhood all the time that predate the alleged big bang.





Haha that picture made me laugh.

Big bang doubters, whether they realize or not are even more laughable than young earth creationists.

The big bang theory is based not on pure speculation but an overwhelming amount of  reproducible observations. All it would take for the big bang model to be thrown out would be a SINGLE piece of evidence to the contrary yet, as hard as people look with their billion dollar scientific equipment such as the LHC none shows up.

Then you get some internet stoners claiming that they themselves have evidence that the big bang is garbage... awesome! Submit your evidence and change the face of science! Oh wait...


this ill-logic is ineptitude at it's finest... yeah... lets find evidence of something we can't possibly find evidence for. great. great minds. (seriously are you people asking for evidence of absence and still able to call Wiccan a dumb stoner? really? wow)

any and all "evidence" to provide for the Big Bang Theory being "fool-proof" is anecdotal at best, and the only way anyone is going to identify any realistic deductions of reasoning on this issue is by pure speculation and philosophy.

it's lost art being able to use one's mind freely.

you guys take the cake, because you're just all so arrogant about what you DO NOT KNOW. :lol:

PS: Wiccan_Seeker was not insulting you or judging you people at all. (yet you're all so crass) all that Wiccan was colluding to was the probability that scientists in the future will be surprised at just how much they don't or CAN'T know and also that (and this is probable, IMHO) even the most prominent figureheads in the science community will slip and one point finally ask the all-pervading Million Dollar Question of stupidity... "where can we find the evidence for this thing that doesn't exist...? DOY!"

Edited by akira_akuma (02/24/14 07:28 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Confucian] * 2
    #19611159 -

Confucian said:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
10 seconds to 20 minutes after the big bang we have our primordial atoms. The temperature and density of the universe at that time is way beyond a supernova so it would have formed heavy elements up the wazoo (but didnt) and unless we accept that the matter moved at a bazillion times the speed of light those atoms are still well within the gravity well of the universe, which measures lightyears across, so it would have all collapsed back in on itself.


So basically there are 2 possibilities.

1) You are both the greatest 20th and 21st century icon in the world of Physics. You destroy everyone that has ever came before you. Screw Newton/Einstein - you are the greatest Physicist ever to live. Your breakthroughs and discoveries will shake academia to their very core. You will go down as one of the top geniuses ever to live on the planet, for millennia to come. Books will be written about you. Classrooms will discuss your scientific breakthroughs. You have overturned 2500 years of astronomy in the making.

2) You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and would be the laughing stock of the scientific community for centuries to come if they were to hear your ideas...you'd be the biggest joke they've ever come across.

They wouldn't even talk to you because you are so beneath them. Your mind is so weak and incabable of comprehending the concepts at play. They'd tell you to go back to a high school classroom environment. They'd examine your mathematical skills and inform you that their pre-school children are leaps and bounds ahead of you.



you kids today and your science religion, take wiccan's advice and read the
bible since it contains as much truth as the big bang model, also know that
the big bang was conceived by a christian, a catholic priest so it stands
to reason that you'd go for such a twisted religious belief


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Dawks] * 2
    #19611163 -

Dawks said:
The big bang theory is based not on pure speculation but an overwhelming amount of  reproducible observations.



really? so scientists recreated the big bang in a lab?


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #19611172 -

akira_akuma said:
this ill-logic is ineptitude at it's finest... yeah... lets find evidence of something we can't possibly find evidence for.


There is an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting the big bang theory, it is no mere physicists folly. Using the model of the big bang theory you can make predictions, predictions of things that have no yet been proven such as the existence of the CMB or higgs boson and then years later have those predictions proven to be true. If the big bang theory were merely another creation myth then why does experimental research continue to support it a little bit more each day?

akira_akuma said:
seriously are you people asking for evidence of absence


Forgive me but I don't recall every asking anyone for evidence of absence? Exactly what are you proposing is absent?


akira_akuma said:
and still able to call Wiccan a dumb stoner? really? wow


Wiccan_Seeker is undoubtedly my favorite shroomery member. He has made and continues to make me feel welcome in this community and it is often joy to read  his posts, I have much love for him.

That doesn't mean he knows shit about physics.

Believing Wiccan_Seeker to be infallible just because of how damn chill and friendly he is or even if he is knowledgeable in other areas is a fallacy known as Argument from authority


--------------------
date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #19611221 -

Thank you Dawks :smile:

But.. Read that article I posted, and posted twice, and by all means prove it wrong. Its not just one guy spouting his beef on a blog, its someone assembling existing doubts among scientists about the validity of the Big Bang theory into a pleasant to read article.

I don't have to prove a thing.  You Bangers are the ones with the outlandish theory of all energy being created out of nothing and bursting out of a singularity with a schwarzschild radius of lightyears across in mere seconds.  I just point out flaws in the foundations of those assumptions.

Prove them wrong. Dig deep into your scientific sources and you may just find a lot of pseudoscience at the base of the theory, just like the Bang skeptics allege.

That article sums it up way better than I can. Its chock full of questions you can't answer without time and time aggain stretching physics to and beyond its limits.

If you are truly openminded, Read It.

It needs a bit more than Confucian's unscientific argument of "it can't be wrong because everyone is doing it". Its not just my MXE knitting circle too, esteemed scientists of stellar brilliance (IQ 170) like Alexander Shulgin are aboard the Bang Skeptics train, its not just me posting while high. For most of my life I loved the crap out of the Big Bang theory but there's fundamental things wrong with it.

I heard "prove it, prove it" throughout this thread from the ones with the outrageous theories and the Bang Skeptics side is the only side in this topic putting sound explicit information on the table. Refute it with science guys. If you are the enblightened ones, bring me into the light not by guilt trips and name calling but by sound verifyable science.

If y'all fail to counter the arguments with proper science, well,  :goodluckwiththat:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Asante]
    #19611239 -

Quote:
higgs boson and then years later have those predictions proven to be true


Prove that the so called "higgs boson" was in fact the higgs boson and not a fragment of a bigger particle blasted apart by LHC violence. You can't. Quadrillions of observations were made and hi ho, some seem to match a theory so it must be true.

The so called higgs boson may be an artifact of the process of the discovery rather than a fundamental particle.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #19611367 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
From my understanding none of the fundamental forces of nature as we know them were in play during the big bang because of the enormous energy of it.


They were 10 sec to 20min after the bang when nucleosynthesis had produced all those baryons.. and that conveniently light years away and inexplicably cooled down to prevent mass creation of heavy elements.



All Physics breaks down at the Planck wall, .00000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of a second after the Big Bang...

Tell me, where did you get your PhD and in what field of study? Please tell me you at least have a bacheler's of science? Masters? PhD? Have you submitted your breakthroughs to any scientific journals? Which ones? Professor, at which university do you teach? What was your doctoral thesis on? The age of the Methusula star?

:hahthatsrich:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Confucian]
    #19611376 -

I think dissecting things like this, is exactly why our civilization strayed so far from true spirituality. No matter how perfect something may seem, if it's based off of logic, like the universe is, it's dictated to have fault. With that anything can be understood, or misunderstood.

The great philosophical debate is going about it all wrong. The quicker path is analyzing what's wrong, not what's right. Perfection is complexity, lack of it speaks for itself. Reality plotholes. You don't have to leave your couch to inherit the "mysteries" of the universe. Mysteries we already know. Do you respect love and logic? Then my friend you are on the right path, my underachievers.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Confucian] * 1
    #19611395 -

Confucian said:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
From my understanding none of the fundamental forces of nature as we know them were in play during the big bang because of the enormous energy of it.


They were 10 sec to 20min after the bang when nucleosynthesis had produced all those baryons.. and that conveniently light years away and inexplicably cooled down to prevent mass creation of heavy elements.



All Physics breaks down at the Planck wall, .00000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of a second after the Big Bang...

Tell me, where did you get your PhD and in what field of study? Please tell me you at least have a bacheler's of science? Masters? PhD? Have you submitted your breakthroughs to any scientific journals? Which ones? Professor, at which university do you teach? What was your doctoral thesis on? The age of the Methusula star?

:hahthatsrich:


Dont bother advocating science around these parts.  The mysticism and self importance runs very deep.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: DieCommie] * 4
    #19611401 -

So does the narcicism and pseudo-intellectual self-righteousness.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Confucian]
    #19611417 -

"The Universe in a Nutshell"
and
"A Brief History of Time"

both by Hawking, both excellent reads.

Not sure if they cover the entire big bang, but they're great books for general information on our universe and the laws that govern it. I have a 2 in 1 combo book, and i've always loved reading selective pages out of it. Haven't yet gone through it completely.


--------------------
Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #19611419 -

.

Edited by DieCommie (11/13/16 01:14 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Can you recommend a book on The Big Bang model of the universe? [Re: Confucian] * 1
    #19611434 -

Confucian said:
Tell me, where did you get your PhD and in what field of study? Please tell me you at least have a bacheler's of science? Masters? PhD? Have you submitted your breakthroughs to any scientific journals? Which ones? Professor, at which university do you teach? What was your doctoral thesis on? The age of the Methusula star?

:hahthatsrich:



I dont need any of that. You need to refute the claims presented to you and not hide behind knowledge you don't possess.

The position you take is ridiculously unscientific, you're hiding behind big names and the calling for credentials because you can't refute any of these claims.

Refute the claims. You cannot.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Community > The Pub
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Help a literary phobic (Recommend Books) StrandedVoyager 1,131 9 05/01/08 04:16 PM
by 5150
* Need a New Book LethalX5 2,028 18 04/21/05 01:27 PM
by MOTH
* Can someone recommend a good book on Buddhism?
( 1 2 all )		 MOTH 5,014 27 06/27/04 02:08 PM
by Learyfan
* I'm at a moral standstill.
( 1 2 all )		 goldcaphunter 2,844 28 07/17/13 04:54 PM
by elasticaltiger
* Anyone have.......Book suggestions?
( 1 2 all )		 TheDudeAbides 3,753 30 06/10/05 12:54 AM
by Learyfan
* Anyone ever read any of these books? freddurgan 1,293 8 09/06/04 09:20 PM
by C20H25N3O
* Book recommendations?
( 1 2 all )		 Irishdrunk 3,618 23 06/01/05 12:59 AM
by KackleDude
* ISO: Book recommendations for puppy training with a loving approach. JacquesCousteau 3,522 19 11/25/04 12:42 PM
by SkorpivoMusterion

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
6,004 topic views. 10 members, 291 guests and 156 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.039 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.