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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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The Inevitability
    #19540781 -

There comes a moment in time and space, in entanglement, that settles as the moment, the occurrence..a point of inevitability moments before the happening of occurrence that exists..in a Newtonian sense as an object in motion before the actual motion occurs. In a quantum entanglement sense it is the future entangled in the present.

I wonder about inevitable events being inevitable, and how every event leading to retrospect as inevitable..the past is as such or it wouldn't have been.

I wonder how far his inevitable factor applies to ourselves and reality at large..how much is inevitable and when is it so? Does it become as such or was it always?


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zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: The Inevitability [Re: hTx]
    #19541053 -

I feel compelled to bring up Tegmark's Level III Multivere:  The Many-Worlds Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics.

In Many-Worlds, everything is inevitable.  Say you have one die.  You roll it and get a two.  In an equally real universe (because the wavefunction doesn't collapse in Many-Worlds), you rolled a four at the exact same instant.  In yet another universe, you rolled a three.  There are three "yous", all existing equally, in universes with precisely the same past except for the different rolls of the die.  To you, the roll of two was inevitable.  And proved to be so.  But also to you, the roll of four, and also of three, were equally 'inevitable.'  So everything that is possible is inevitable -- and therefore, nothing is.

Many-Worlds is a deterministic theory.  There is another deterministic theory that posits "block time."  In block time, there are no parallel universes, there is just the one, and the future is totally and irrevocably set into one outcome.  We have only to live it to know what it is.  In this, everything is inevitable.

I'm not sure I quite agree with either.  I think there is an independent agency of will in human consciousness, but that it is very decidedly not free for most practical purposes.  Even if you do believe in deterministic fate, you cannot ever have knowledge of it, so why not conduct yourself as if the future is not set?  You have that choice.

I have more fun conducting myself as if I am at cause over several of my actions, rather than just none of them -- which is the fashionable interpretation of existence among many thinkers.  Free will is one extreme, and soulless determinism is the other extreme.  I like to be somewhere in between.  And therefore, I don't see all things as inevitable.  I may be appealing to my ignorance of the future for this, but, that is my prerogative.

I wonder how far his inevitable factor applies to ourselves and reality at large..how much is inevitable and when is it so? Does it become as such or was it always?

In Many-Worlds, everything to this point appears to have been inevitable, and nothing beyond this point is inevitable at all.  Because everything that can happen must.  Somewhere.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The Inevitability [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #19541146 -

it is a huge tragedy
a waste of human intelligence
attempting to conjure significance and to predict fate - fame and fortune.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: The Inevitability [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19541320 -

That's how I see inevitability sort-of, I feel there are things which appear as inevitable in retrospect, but that events only become as such just a few moments before there occurrence..

Like a snowflake falling to earth, the initial inevitability is that the snowflake is falling and this fall will stop at the earth. Or that it will at least become a different form of water. But there are many things which may occur that change the path of inevitability, that happen in real-time all the time and thus the inevitability of whatever manifests as such is difficult to predict.

The many-worlds theory postulating that everything possible is inevitable and therefore nothing is, is an interesting sentence that brings possibility and probability into play..by introducing a possibility and a probability of possibility, we can map the most likely event, and call it inevitable but that doesn't make it so until it actually happens or occurs, only seen as such in retrospect. I agree to an extent, that everything to the present seems inevitable and that nothing beyond this point is inevitable at all, except IMO, inevitable events are present at least a moment before they occur..

But even that statement endangers the inevitability since if in existence before manifestion as information or a highly probable possibility..there may exist knowledge of inevitable factors before they occur which allows for action outside the inevitability potentially rendering it to non-existence through direct interference of its occurrence..
In that respect, human consciousness seems to be most fit for this sort of interference..deterministic to a point of realization.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: The Inevitability [Re: hTx]
    #19541323 -

You just reminded me of something hTx.

You know that when a star explodes over vast distances, it takes a long time to be able to see the explosion. Once we see the explosion, it is already over with.

Now think about this in reverse, when you see the light of the happening before the explosion occurs.

Or a compliment of gravitational time dilation, in the complimentary/opposite universe.

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Re: The Inevitability [Re: hTx]
    #19541358 -

hTx said:
except IMO, inevitable events are present at least a moment before they occur..

But even that statement endangers the inevitability since if in existence before manifestion as information or a highly probable possibility..there may exist knowledge of inevitable factors before they occur which allows for action outside the inevitability potentially rendering it to non-existence through direct interference of its occurrence..
In that respect, human consciousness seems to be most fit for this sort of interference..deterministic to a point of realization.



Expertly said.  If the agency of human consciousness is powerful enough to grasp something in the future as an inevitable event and to change it -- say, even through the mere awareness of it -- something interesting is going on. 

I agree that human consciousness is indeed capable of this type of interference.







P.S.  I was not asking you necessarily to entertain Many-Worlds.  Just using it as a model.  :smile:


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: The Inevitability [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19541596 -

It's an interesting model, one which IMO has evidence just by the many different realities experienced  by so many people in the same reality. Each perception (reality) it's own unique universe. People are literally living in there own worlds by their own words, thoughts (thinker) and subsequent evidence (prover).
Heraclitus said something a long the lines of "the asleep have many worlds, while those who are awake have but one in common."


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: The Inevitability [Re: hTx]
    #19541814 -

hTx said:
It's an interesting model, one which IMO has evidence just by the many different realities experienced  by so many people in the same reality. Each perception (reality) it's own unique universe. People are literally living in there own worlds by their own words, thoughts (thinker) and subsequent evidence (prover).
Heraclitus said something a long the lines of "the asleep have many worlds, while those who are awake have but one in common."



When with someone who could be described as 'awake' according to how I understand this word, it can feel more like sharing one world as there is more of an embrace of the actual moment - which can feel like each moment can open up more, feel more real and visceral, and we can share that common reality - when people are stuck in their own minds, coming up with plot lines and projections that distort the present moment, it can feel like there are different versions of reality forming and this can be described as different worlds - however, I would call this more smaller decisions within a larger web. The more awake I feel, the more I can actually sense different time lines. I have received omens of future events I wanted to prevent, but no matter my action, that very event still happened. Whether or not you believe omens to be real or not, my feeling is that there are various time lines and different existences - that we exist on this map of so many different threads of fate - and depending on our actions and the actions of others we travel on these threads to the ultimate inevitable. So to a certain extent, there is a sense of the inevitable, but our free will plays a part and can alter things to a degree...but either way we get there.


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"I can't be told by anyone how to live. If I said to the minister 'Move from your home' he would think I was mad." Bushman : Botswana

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Re: The Inevitability [Re: hTx]
    #19542751 -

I can still remember the first time I listened to this at my folks old place.  Almost feels like I am back there did it already happen or is it happening now?



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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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