luvdemshrooms said:

Repertoire89 said:

luvdemshrooms said:

Exploiting? Hardly.

Hyperbole is why it's so difficult to have discussions.

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Hyperbole, you haven't even formed an argument yet you're accusing me of hyperbole and complaining about the character of the discussion.

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If you say so.

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shivas.wisdom said:

that is literally the most hyperbolic thing i've ever heard

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shivas.wisdom said:

that is literally the most hyperbolic thing i've ever heard

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Synthe said:

I think I just had a hyperbolgasm.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

The evidence presented in this paper largely refutes the conventional wisdom about adult minimum wage workers: Schiller finds that in 94 percent of families with adults who work a job that pays at or below the minimum wage, the spouse works as well. In about 8 out of 10 of those families where children are present, the minimum wage job accounts for less than twenty percent of their household income. In other words, the majority of adult minimum wage earners are providing a small supplement to the income of a higher-earning spouse.?

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Murph said:

They need to raise the minimum wage to more than $10 because you cant pay to live indoors and buy food with $400 a week before taxes in most cities in this country.

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Crystal G said:

Murph said:

badchad said:

Murph said:

So where are you going to make any money in a rural area as an un-skilled minimum wage worker? How is a person supposed to support themselves with no businesses in their area?

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You don't have to live in the middle of nowhere just not a big city.  Mopping floors, doing dishes, and unskilled trades can be found in lots of small cities.

In the city, there is just more competition.

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There would be more even completion in a small town to mop that one gas station floor.

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I agree, there are literally no jobs in some parts of small-town country.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

Just Getting By? Income Dependence on Minimum Wage Jobs

Dr. Bradley R. Schiller-University of Nevada, Reno • Published on March 08, 2011

Increases in the minimum wage remain popular with legislators and the public in part due to misconceptions about who earns the minimum. The most popular and seemingly persuasive argument
for minimum wage hikes is that adult minimum wage workers can’t afford to maintain their families at those wage levels.

Census Bureau data confirm that approximately 40 percent of the beneficiaries of the most recent federal minimum wage increase in 2009 were teens or others living with a parent or relative. This means many minimum wage earners are young adults just getting started in their career, and they’re at a time in their life when an entry wage best matches their skill set.

But what about adults who earn the minimum wage; do they fit the picture of the impoverished parent that’s just scraping by? New research from Bradley R. Schiller—a professor emeritus at American University, and now a professor of economics at the University of Nevada-Reno—sheds light on this important question. Using data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth (NLSY), Schiller looks at the employment and family income of minimum wage workers between the ages of 33 and 50, in the years between 1998 and 2006 when the federal minimum wage was unchanged at $5.15 an hour.

The evidence presented in this paper largely refutes the conventional wisdom about adult minimum wage workers: Schiller finds that in 94 percent of families with adults who work a job that pays at or below the minimum wage, the spouse works as well. In about 8 out of 10 of those families where children are present, the minimum wage job accounts for less than twenty percent of their household income. In other words, the majority of adult minimum wage earners are providing a small supplement to the income of a higher-earning spouse.

Other data in this study make this point explicitly. For instance, Schiller looked at adults with children who earned less than $10,000 each year from their job. He found that:

•Nearly half of these low wage, low income workers had a spouse that earned more than $40,000 a year;

•Another 16 percent had spouses earning between $30,000 and $40,000 a year;

•And 12 percent had spouses earning between $20,000 and $30,000 each year.

Though these figures change somewhat when looking at adults that aren’t supporting children, they still depart from the conventional wisdom: Approximately 3 out of every 4 of these adults earn 30 percent or less of their total household income from a job that pays at or below the minimum wage.

Schiller’s study shows that only a small minority of adults age 33 to 50 who earn at or below the minimum wage are the primary (or sole) breadwinner in their household. Previous research has shown that long-term minimum wage earners (while an enormously small portion of the population) often lack basic job skills needed to move up in the workforce. Paradoxically, raising the minimum wage in an attempt to help this small subset of minimum wage workers can actually harm them; decades of economic research show that artificially raising the cost to hire and train these employees makes it likely that management will hire a more-skilled employee to do their job (or replace that job with an automated, self-service alternative).

Fortunately, there are better policy options to help this small subset. Schiller finds that very few adults are “stuck” at minimum wage jobs; while approximately a quarter of the adults in the survey at one point earned at or below the minimum wage during the eight year period, roughly 95 percent of the adults survey also earned considerably more than the minimum at some point in that same period. This is consistent with earlier research that shows that a majority of minimum wage employees earn a raise within 1 to 12 months on the job. Public policies that promote employment and increase income (like the Earned Income Tax Credit) ensure that less-skilled employees are able to get the experience needed to earn that raise.

–Employment Policies Institute

It seems to me that the vast majority of minimum wage earners are not in fact supporting families which begs to question why are the liberals so adamant about increasing it and hurting small business?

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You should go live in Compton for a year and tell everyone your opinion that people who work for minimum wage are unmotivated unskilled workers. Lol I mean most of those people are drug dealers and don't even have any jobs, but none the less it'd be funny just for you to get a completely 100% well rounded opinion of what everyone thinks to base your argument on. Nothing wrong with that right?

Patlal said:

I'm gonna go and take a page from Pris and zappa's book:

This study is biased because it was funded by conservatives.

Source: pulled out of my ass.

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zappaisgod said:

Patlal said:

I'm gonna go and take a page from Pris and zappa's book:

This study is biased because it was funded by conservatives.

Source: pulled out of my ass.

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Do you dispute the facts?

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zappaisgod said:

Murph said:

They need to raise the minimum wage to more than $10 because you cant pay to live indoors and buy food with $400 a week before taxes in most cities in this country.

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So move

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Crystal G said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

I am not entitled to anything that I didn't earn.

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And who do you think creates the standard of wages that the poor earned?

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Quote:

Quote:

No one is forced to work anywhere. I am however forced to pay taxes through threat of violence against me by the state so I think its only fair that I lobby for lowered taxes to decrease state power.

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How can you say that people truly have a choice, when people need food and rent money to survive? Clearly "free will" can only take you so far if your basic needs are not being met.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

ohcrapitsnico said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious institutions don't try to steal from me that is why I have no problem with them helping the poor there are secular charities as well that exist. You still assume that the state is the best way to help the poor I disagree. Free markets bring the majority out of poverty not state sanctioned handouts that create dependence.

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I don't think the argument is we should establish a plethora of welfare programs. The argument is we can not rely on the 1% to do the right thing and pay their workers skilled or not the right wages. People are greedy and wealth inequality will continue to spiral out of control  as long as the few can hoard all the money they can. The rules need to be changed.

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Wealth inequality is not the issue Bill Gates having billions does not effect my or your ability to earn a living.

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imachavel said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

ohcrapitsnico said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious institutions don't try to steal from me that is why I have no problem with them helping the poor there are secular charities as well that exist. You still assume that the state is the best way to help the poor I disagree. Free markets bring the majority out of poverty not state sanctioned handouts that create dependence.

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I don't think the argument is we should establish a plethora of welfare programs. The argument is we can not rely on the 1% to do the right thing and pay their workers skilled or not the right wages. People are greedy and wealth inequality will continue to spiral out of control  as long as the few can hoard all the money they can. The rules need to be changed.

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Wealth inequality is not the issue Bill Gates having billions does not effect my or your ability to earn a living.

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Who cares about Bill Gates. To me raising the minimum wage has nothing to do with limiting how much money Bill Gates makes. I'm going to go ahead and start repeating this statement of mine from now on in response to arguments until people start to get my point:

Employees are a privilege, not a right, if a person REALLY is THAT motivated to run a business on their own then they should run it just like that, on their own, without having to complain about wage hikes they have to pay their employees which are extremely low in comparison to current inflation values

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zappaisgod said:

Wealth inequality is not the issue Bill Gates having billions does not effect my or your ability to earn a living.

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Who cares about Bill Gates. To me raising the minimum wage has nothing to do with limiting how much money Bill Gates makes. I'm going to go ahead and start repeating this statement of mine from now on in response to arguments until people start to get my point:

Employees are a privilege, not a right, if a person REALLY is THAT motivated to run a business on their own then they should run it just like that, on their own, without having to complain about wage hikes they have to pay their employees which are extremely low in comparison to current inflation values

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What bullshit.  No employer can force someone to take a job.  I offer X.  If you don't like X you can fuck off and work for somebody else who offers X+.  Freedom.

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zappaisgod said:

Murph said:

They need to raise the minimum wage to more than $10 because you cant pay to live indoors and buy food with $400 a week before taxes in most cities in this country.

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So move

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What a brilliant solution, you should run for office or start a bumper sticker company or something.

zappaisgod said:

Crystal G said:

I agree, there are literally no jobs in some parts of small-town country.

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So move

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