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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Slowly, the madness comes to an end
    #1851263 -

Boston Ordered to Hire White Firefighters
Tue Aug 26, 6:47 AM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!



BOSTON - Four white men passed over for firefighting jobs in favor of minority candidates who scored lower on civil service tests must be hired as soon as possible, a federal judge has ruled.



The men had sued the Boston Fire Department for discrimination. They must also be awarded back pay and seniority they would have earned since October 2000, the date they were denied employment, U.S. District Court Judge Richard Stearns ordered Monday.


A fifth plaintiff who was hired last October also will get a pay raise under the ruling.


"I think hopefully we're just going back to normal, the way it was meant to be, so that now they are just hiring the best person, regardless of race or color," said Harold Lichten, the attorney for all five men.


The city is exploring its options, officials said.


"The city has just received this decision," said Seth Gitell, a spokesman for Mayor Thomas M. Menino. "The city's lawyers are reviewing it and considering its implications for future hiring."


The judge's decision applies only to the men who sued and was not intended to establish a precedent for other white applicants who were passed over in October 2000. Joseph Quinn already has been hired; the other plaintiffs were Sean O'Brien; Robert Dillon; Joseph Sullivan, and C. Roger Kendrick Jr.


An NAACP lawyer questioned the decision.


"If a return to normal means a return to the way the Boston Fire Department conducted its hiring prior to the mid-1970s, it will be a disaster for any applicants of color in this city," Toni Wolfman said.


The judge at first rejected the civil rights suit filed in April 2001, the first to challenge the department's affirmative action hiring policy since 1989, when it was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites).


But the 1st U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) reversed Stearns, ruling in March that the city has achieved its goal of racial parity among entry-level firefighters, and no longer needed to abide by a nearly 30-year-old court order that departments across the state have used as a model to correct racial imbalance.


Finally


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1851279 -

Terrible, just terrible.

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1851304 -

I test for Phoenix FD in a few months. Tough job to get.

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: ]
    #1851310 -

Mr_Mushrooms said:
Terrible, just terrible.


Are you being serious or facetious?

I'm guessing the latter.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1851318 -

:lol:

The latter.

This one is so obvious I doubt many people will argue the opposite.  But thanks for informing us of it.  We all need some good news now and then. :smile:

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: ]
    #1851378 -

""If a return to normal means a return to the way the Boston Fire Department conducted its hiring prior to the mid-1970s, it will be a disaster for any applicants of color in this city," Toni Wolfman said."

this is the truth. doesn't anyone learn from the past? there's a reason it took so long from when the salves where freed to when blacks could actually be termed "equal" citizens. obviously you fellows would like to regress.


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The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Malachi]
    #1851431 -

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
- Martin Luther King Jr.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Autonomous]
    #1851440 -

Amen Brother King, amen!

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Malachi]
    #1851441 -

Regress? No. Just no favoritism, hire by qualifications ONLY.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Autonomous]
    #1851458 -

Unfortunately with his death, it seems the real dream of the civil rights movement died. Now we are cursed with the likes of Jesse Jackson, who does not share the same dream.

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Autonomous]
    #1852392 -

Autonomous said:
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
- Martin Luther King Jr.


that's my point. do you actually believe that black people, especially black males, are judged on the content of their character?

yeah right. shatka, what was that you said about black guys being crack dealers and murderers? and smiling about it?



--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Malachi]
    #1852479 -

Malachi said:
that's my point. do you actually believe that black people, especially black males, are judged on the content of their character?


Speaking of myself, my friends and family, yes.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Autonomous]
    #1852669 -

ok... just be obstinate. obviously I mean in general.

besides, even models of open mindness such as yourself can't help but be effected by apperance... like when someone has a bunch of facial hair and long hair they give off a wolfman persona. well the black man persona is "watch out, cause I'm a big black dude" even if they aren't that big.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Malachi]
    #1852723 -

malachi... for real man...

what the fuck is your deal?

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Malachi]
    #1852731 -

Malachi said:
shatka, what was that you said about black guys being crack dealers and murderers?  and smiling about it?


I said that there are lots of them in prison. :rolleyes:

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Malachi]
    #1852739 -

Do you not understand how you become a fd mala. They dont just interview you by asking questions and then choose like most jobs. You have written and field exams. There is a score you can get from it and then the best are chosen. It is the same with cops. I have an uncle who was living in canada who passed the tests with great marks but was rejected. When he asked why he was rejected he was told this "We [the police station] must keep with a certain ratio of blacks and whites." thats just plain wrong. same with sex descrimination is colleges, where the ratio of women to men enrollment must be equal to that of all sports.

Maybe just to make mala happy they should have all the applicants wear full body suits and ski masks with voice scramblers.


--------------------
I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: d33p]
    #1852747 -

Maybe just to make mala happy they should have all the applicants wear full body suits and ski masks with voice scramblers.

malachi prefers that people not be hired based on their competence, but by race. i don't think he'd like your idea. if the applicants were wearing full body suits, how would they be able to discriminate like malachi wants?

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: d33p]
    #1852751 -

He still wouldn't be happy. He believes the blacks should have that advantage, even if they are less qualified for the job. Personally, I want the best people possible at my local FD. I don't want someone that is less qualified saving my life. I don't give a damn what color they are.

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: Malachi]
    #1852756 -

Malachi said:
ok... just be obstinate. obviously I mean in general.


That has not been my experience with most people I have met and those I know well.

I am of the opinion that you will ALWAYS have people utilizing mental shortcuts in judging various things in their environment before having much information, it is how we are wired (and it comes in handy for survival). I like this quote by Mark Twain that I think is appropriate, "We should be careful to get out of an experience all the wisdom that is in it -- not like the cat that sits on a hot stove lid. She will never sit down on a hot lid again -- and that is well; but also she will never sit down on a cold one anymore." Yes, there are too many people who think like this cat, they may have a bad initial experience with someone (or a prejudicial upbringing) and associate negative feelings with all people of that race. I can think of two ways to move beyond this, one is to think RATIONALLY and judge people as individuals, another is to substitute blind love for blind hate and let that be a standard of prejudging another.

Legislation will not alter the way people think, legislation will not eliminate racism. My experience is that affirmative action actually promotes racism directed at those who are it's beneficiaries as well as those of the same favored groups as the beneficiaries. It is my contention that you cannot eliminate racism by practicing racism (affirmative action), I have yet to encounter an explanation that would prompt me to change my mind.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Slowly, the madness comes to an end [Re: ]
    #1852760 -

Actually, that one kind of made sense to me.


Interpretation of facial expression is a subconscious reflex that can be difficult for some people to overcome. Flared nostrils are a sign of agression. To the unadapted caucasian "fusiform face area" most blacks always look like their nostrils are flared.

Also, cultural differences are always a factor.







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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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