Home | Community | Message Board


Lil Shop Of Spores
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them?
    #867143 - 09/06/02 12:04 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

William Clinton , president, for his merciless bombing of the
people of Yugoslavia for 78 days and nights, taking the lives of
many hundreds of civilians, and producing one of the greatest
ecological catastrophes in history; for his relentless
continuation of the sanctions and rocket attacks upon the people
of Iraq; and for his illegal and lethal bombings of Somalia,
Bosnia, Sudan, and Afghanistan.

General Wesley Clark , Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, for his
direction of the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia with an almost
sadistic fanaticism ... "He would rise out of his seat and slap
the table. 'I've got to get the maximum violence out of this
campaign -- now!'"{3}

George Bush , president, for the murder of hundreds of thousands
of innocent Iraqi civilians, including many thousands of
children, the result of his 40 days of bombing and the
institution of draconian sanctions; and for his unconscionable
bombing of Panama, producing widespread death, destruction and
homelessness, for no discernible reason that would stand up in a
court of law.

General Colin Powell , Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for
his prominent role in the attacks on Panama and Iraq, the latter
including destruction of nuclear reactors as well as plants
making biological and chemical agents. It was the first time
ever that live reactors had been bombed, and ran the risk of
setting a dangerous precedent. Hardly more than a month had
passed since the United Nations, under whose mandate the United
States was supposedly operating in Iraq, had passed a resolution
reaffirming its "prohibition of military attacks on nuclear
facilities" in the Middle East.{4} In the wake of the
destruction, Powell gloated: "The two operating reactors they had
are both gone, they're down, they're finished."{5} He was just
as cavalier about the lives of the people of Iraq. In response
to a question concerning the number of Iraqis killed in the war,
the good general replied: "It's really not a number I'm terribly
interested in."{6}

And for his part in the cover up of war crimes in Vietnam by
troops of the same brigade that carried out the My Lai
massacre.{7}

General Norman Schwarzkopf , Commander in Chief, U.S. Central
Command, for his military leadership of the Iraqi carnage; for
continuing the carnage two days after the cease-fire; for
continuing it against Iraqis trying to surrender; for burying soldiers alive, deliberately.

Ronald Reagan , president, for eight years of death, destruction,
torture, and the crushing of hope inflicted upon the people of El
Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Grenada by his policies; and
for his bombings of Lebanon, Libya and Iran. He's forgotten all this, but the world shouldn't.

Elliott Abrams , assistant secretary of state under Reagan, for
rewriting history, even as it was happening, by instituting lying
as public policy. He was indispensable to putting the best
possible face on the atrocities being committed daily by the
Contras in Nicaragua and other Washington allies in Central
America, thus promoting continued support for them; a spinmeister
for the ages, who wrestled facts into ideological submission.
"When history is written," he declared, "the Contras will be folk
heroes."(8)

Caspar Weinberger , Secretary of Defense for seven years under
Reagan, for his official and actual responsibility for the
numerous crimes against humanity perpetrated by the United States
in Central America and the Caribbean, and for the bombing of
Libya in 1986. George Bush pardoned him for Iran-Contra, but he
should not be pardoned for his war crimes.

Lt. Col. Oliver North , assigned to Reagan's National Security
Council, for being a prime mover behind the Contras of Nicaragua,
and for his involvement in the planning of the invasion of
Grenada, which took the lives of hundreds of innocent civilians.

Henry Kissinger (who has successfully combined three careers:
scholar, Nobel peace laureate, and war criminal), National
Security Adviser under Nixon and Secretary of State under Nixon
and Ford, for his Machiavellian, amoral, immoral roles in the US
interventions into Angola, Chile, East Timor, Vietnam, and
Cambodia, which brought unspeakable horror and misery to the
peoples of those lands.

Gerald Ford , president, for giving his approval to Indonesia to
use American arms to brutally suppress the people of East Timor,
thus setting in motion a quarter-century-long genocide.

Robert McNamara , Secretary of Defense under presidents Kennedy
and Johnson, a prime architect of, and major bearer of
responsibility for, the slaughter in Indochina, from its early
days to its extraordinary escalations; and for the violent
suppression of popular movements in Peru.

General William Westmoreland , Army Chief of Staff, for the
numerous war crimes under his command in Vietnam. In 1971,
Telford Taylor, the chief US prosecutor at the post-World War II
Nuremberg Tribunal, cited the "Yamashita" case as grounds for
indicting Westmoreland. Following the war, a US Army Commission
had sentenced Japanese General Tomayuki Yamashita to be hanged
for atrocities committed by his troops in the Philippines. The
Commission held that as the senior commander, Yamashita was
responsible for not stopping the atrocities. The same ruling
could of course apply to General Powell and General Schwarzkopf.
Yamashita, in his defense, presented considerable evidence that
he had lacked the communications to adequately control his
troops; yet he was still hanged. Taylor pointed out that with
helicopters and modern communications, Westmoreland and his
commanders didn't have this problem.{9}

The crime of bombing

As mentioned in the "bombing" chapter, the bombing of cities from
airplanes goes not only unpunished but virtually unaccused. This
is a legacy of World War II. The Nuremberg and Tokyo judgments
are silent on the subject of aerial bombardment. Since both
sides had played a terrible game of urban destruction -- the
Allies far more successfully -- there was no basis for criminal
charges against Germans or Japanese, and in fact no such charges
were brought. But as Telford Taylor has asked: "Is there any
significant difference between killing a babe-in-arms by a bomb
dropped from a high-flying aircraft, or by an infantryman's
point-blank gunfire? ... The aviator's act [is described] as more
impersonal than the ground soldier's. This may be psychologically valid, but surely is not morally satisfactory."{10}

No one ever thinks they're guilty of anything ... they're all
just good ol' patriots

"Asked whether he wants to apologize for the suffering he caused,
he looks genuinely confused, has the interpreter repeat the
question, and answers 'No'. ... 'I want you to know that
everything I did, I did for my country.'"
Journalist Nate Thayer interviewing a dying Pol Pot, 1997{11}

"I tell you how I feel," said General Augusto Pinochet, "I would like to be remembered as a man who served his country, who served Chile throughout his entire life on this earth. And what he did was always done thinking about the welfare of Chile."{11a}

-- From William Blums new book "Rogue State"


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMeraok
swiming throughacedia

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 461
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: Xlea321]
    #867152 - 09/06/02 12:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Kissinger should have a bigger paragraph.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: Xlea321]
    #867190 - 09/06/02 12:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Ask the the people of El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Grenada if they like their current democracies better than the communist dictatorships they were in before. Then get back to me about Reagan.



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: wingnutx]
    #867235 - 09/06/02 01:08 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Communist dictatorships? You mean like the sandinistas? The guys who brought in the first free elections after a series of US backed brutal fascist dictators?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: wingnutx]
    #867238 - 09/06/02 01:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Actually wingnutx you'd be surprised. I've got quite a few friends from those or other Latin American countries, and lots of them are dismayed at the insular attitude of so many Americans that Reaganomics and democracy have done them some kind of favor.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: Xlea321]
    #867242 - 09/06/02 01:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, just like the Sandinistas, who were forced to hold elections. The preceeding regimes were, as you say, brutal as well. What they have now is much, much better.

Thanksfully, the Sandinistas were dropped like a hot rock once the people had a chance to make their own decision.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: hongomon]
    #867252 - 09/06/02 01:20 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

"Reaganomics" are not practiced in any Latin American countries. That was US domestic policy, and not even vaguely applicable to any Latin economies, which do have a long way to go.

If some individuals prefer to be subjects rather than citizens, then that is their problem. I also have many friends and coworkers from Latin America, and they are in the democracy camp. I guess one tends to make friends with people who hold similar values.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: wingnutx]
    #867253 - 09/06/02 01:21 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

You'll certainly find that any progress the south americans have made has been in spite of intense american efforts to destroy any democracy and freedom.

The recent move in Bolivia where US corporations privatised the water supply and drove the price up by 400% was resisted by the people. Despite a murderous campaign by US backed paramilitaries who slaughtered anyone who protested against the privatisation the heroic struggle against US greed and opression was eventually won. For how long is uncertain.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (09/06/02 01:23 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: Xlea321]
    #867256 - 09/06/02 01:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Care to share some documentation?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: wingnutx]
    #867260 - 09/06/02 01:28 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

You mean you've never heard of the Bolivian water privatisation?

Sorry man, until you've got some elementary level of knowledge we can't progress with this.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: Xlea321]
    #867264 - 09/06/02 01:32 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Ah, the old 'you dont know, so I wont tell you' trick. I think Plato invented that maneuver. Debate at it's finest.

Seriously, that's not a very good response.

I'm off for 2 weeks of resrve babykiller duty, so I can't finish this now. Seeya, and I hope you can back up your own arguments by then.

Toodles.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: wingnutx]
    #867268 - 09/06/02 01:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

In other words you've never heard of the Bolivian water privatisation.

Don't be ashamed, this is how you learn. Be a man and go and read up on it, then get back to us.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: wingnutx]
    #867317 - 09/06/02 02:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

This is pretty straight-forward about Bolivian water privitization
http://www.globalexchange.org/wbimf/Shultz.html

I'm sure you'll hate this left-wing anti-privitization page
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6059/antipriv.htm

"Privatization is also a condition [of] debt relief. Heavily indebted poor countries throughout Africa and Central America have been hit hard by drought and falling prices for food crops this year, but they are not getting the debt relief they have been promised. First, they have to sell off their services and natural resources. Reluctance to comply with these and other conditions, like cutting public spending, means the international debt relief program is stalled. Only five countries have completed the requirements for debt relief since the program was launched in 1996."
http://www.halifaxinitiative.org/hi.php/General/313

Now, I aint sayin you have to accept what's there just because it's there, but maybe you read it and see where they're coming from, who knows.

Oh, and here's a related issue, which if true sheds dubious light on this ideal of "democracy" in Latin America.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/globaliz/econ/2002/0705bolivia.htm

And sorry for misusing "Reaganomics". I thought any bullshit his regime pulled could fall under the term.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: hongomon]
    #867337 - 09/06/02 02:31 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Thank you. I will certainly read those when I get back.

Alex123, please take notes. Homgomon's post is how to try to impart knowledge to someone. If I buy it or not, he made a good faith effort.

OK, now I really am gone for 2 weeks. Ciao.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehongomon
old hand
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 910
Loc: comin' at ya
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: wingnutx]
    #867795 - 09/06/02 08:15 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Not exactly, wingnutx. I agree with you in part, but I also think these discussions here might be a bit smoother if the push for demanding documentation were met by a push now and then to make a quick hop to a search engine to look into what someone is talking about. Maybe you do, and this is just one of those times you decided to demand documentation.

To go off on a tangent--in this esoteric world of covert operations-within covert operations and hidden agendas, a lot of people are going to smell a rat, myself included, but won't be sure where or how to start locating it. But the fact that we've got a pretty damned hard time pinpointing it don't make the smell go away.

I was in the reserves back in my youth. 91alpha. What's your MOS?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinevatoloco
Puppet Hunter -DBK
Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 7,653
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: Xlea321]
    #868278 - 09/07/02 06:50 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: vatoloco]
    #868531 - 09/07/02 09:41 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

LOL, How old are you son?

Could you educate yourself to a basic, third grade level before you post? Obviously you've never heard of the bolivian water privatisation either. Am I the teacher here? If there's anything in my posts you don't understand go to a responsible news service and READ. I don't have the time to explain the world to you. You have to put in the effort yourself.




--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineZahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: Xlea321]
    #869115 - 09/07/02 05:11 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Great post, Alex123. Though, you forgot to mention George W. Bush Jr., Ariel Sharon, Shimon Peres, Donald Rumsfield, John Ashcroft, Vladimir Putin, and a handfull of others. :smile:


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: Zahid]
    #869198 - 09/07/02 05:59 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

In reply to:

George W. Bush Jr.



G. Bush #1 is G. H. W. Bush
G. Bush #2 is G. W. Bush.
He is not a Jr.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (09/07/02 06:00 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Wanted Terrorists - Have you seen them? [Re: Xlea321]
    #869423 - 09/07/02 04:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

wow..you sure know how to make friends and influence others..ha..

seriously though....are you ever going to post this Data you're always presenting us with?

I don't know anything about the bolivian water privatisation as you do about the Detroit water privatisation..so what would you like to discuss, the finer points of employee benifit contributions as it relates to the Human Resource field, or another topic of my chosing?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Ordinary Customers flagged as Terrorists The_Red_Crayon 354 0 03/27/07 09:38 PM
by The_Red_Crayon
* Capturing Iraq's most wanted man Luddite 428 1 07/21/07 03:15 PM
by YidakiMan
* Every terrorist fighting against you in Iraq....
( 1 2 all )
Minstrel 1,566 30 07/01/08 01:41 AM
by WornTraveler
* Kids, your parents may be terrorists! discombobulate 636 4 07/12/07 04:17 AM
by Gastronomicus
* Detroit gets MedPot on 04 ballot Protester 248 0 11/21/03 12:11 PM
by Protester
* Detroit Mayor Rekindles Tensions in City
RandalFlagg
352 1 09/19/05 09:06 AM
by Baby_Hitler
* The FDA Proving themselves to be terrorists fighting against the American People AGAIN
( 1 2 3 all )
Mr.Al 2,770 49 05/19/09 06:11 PM
by TGRR
* 9-11 moms want answers Learyfan 573 8 08/23/03 10:02 PM
by Cornholio

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Prisoner#1, Enlil
2,174 topic views. 3 members, 3 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Zamnesia.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2017 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.105 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 16 queries.