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InvisibleSwami
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Definition of Theft
    #1812901 - 08/14/03 11:05 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Sometimes people like to rationalize theft. Sneaking into a movie theatre, taking pens, extra sugar packs (the corporation can afford them!), finding & keeping goods or money without making an attempt to find the owner; etc.

Here is a simple Bhuddist-type rule to eliminate (most) all gray areas: Theft is taking (or using) anything NOT directly offered to you.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Swami]
    #1812944 - 08/14/03 11:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

There is a Zen story about a monk that is meditating at night when a burglar comes in the door and demands his money. The monk tells the guy that he can take whatever he wants, but that taxes are due tomorrow and to please leave enough for the tax collector. The burglar complies and leaves a bit of money.

In some versions of the story the monk muses to himself that he is sorry for the thief, that he cannot give him the moon as well.

In other versions of the story, the police come back the next day with the burglar saying that they caught him stealing from people the night before. The burglar had admited to stealing from the monk, so they were bringing back the monks money. The monk looks at the burglar and says, "This man has stolen nothing from me." When the man gets out of jail, he comes to the monk to become an apprentice.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineDeiymiyan
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Swami]
    #1812946 - 08/14/03 11:22 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I think everyone is guilty as charged of this..  From some point or another.

I used to be guilty of borrowing pens, because I always seemed to forget mine, and then pocketting them without thinking...  Later realizing: "Oh-oh!  :eek:".

I now carry a writing instrument with me most everywhere I go...

... If I could only remember to bring something to write on... 

:oogle:

 


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Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..



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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Swami]
    #1813431 - 08/14/03 02:13 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Here is a simple Bhuddist-type rule to eliminate (most) all gray areas: Theft is taking (or using) anything NOT directly offered to you.




What if its by accident? are you still a thief or does intent matter?...need?

Is it wrong for a starving man to take an apple when the owner won't give it to him?..starving or not?


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1813544 - 08/14/03 02:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

OK. heres a story, I deleted my old post because it was rough, and I went and asked my dad to tell me the story

There was a notorious theif, and murderer... and he went to rob these two Sages who were walking in the forest...

They said take the money, we arent attached to it... but we want to know 1 thing...have you asked your family if they are willing to take on the karma your creating? and so he went back and he asked them... and they said 'we arent responsible for your actions???? no'
and he came back to the sages which were still waiting there...he was really sad.... he said I dont want to continue doing these bad things, please help me stop
and they told him to forget his past

so he sat under a tree and meditated for a long time... His mind became pure and then the Ramayana's were revealed to him (its not like he wrote them)

And that was the writer of the great epic scriptures, his name was Valmiki


moral of the story...no matter what we have done... we can change our life from this moment forward

i think the only thing we can change is the now

i feel inspired... its so easy to identify with your mistakes but all that does is help you continue making them

yay, a new start!!!!


--------------------
I&I


Edited by Rastafari (08/14/03 02:43 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Rastafari]
    #1813600 - 08/14/03 02:58 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Rastafari said:
moral of the story...no matter what we have done... we can change our life from this moment forward

i think the only thing we can change is the now

i feel inspired... its so easy to identify with your mistakes but all that does is help you continue making them





Dude, you're right on.. what is in the past only ties us down right now if we let it tie us down..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1813796 - 08/14/03 03:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

What if its by accident? are you still a thief or does intent matter?...need?
Intent? That all people rationalize theft is the problem; from the politician or narcotics officer who takes graft believing it is part of his due to the ghetto car thief who believes that he is justified as society "owes" him something.

Is it wrong for a starving man to take an apple when the owner won't give it to him?..starving or not?
Yes, of course. The starving man could offer labor in trade if that is all that he had. Was the owner of the orchard or grocery store responsible for the other man to be starving? No.



--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (08/14/03 03:59 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Swami]
    #1813807 - 08/14/03 03:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Intent? That all people rationalize theft is the problem; from the politician or narcotics officer who takes graft believeing it is part of his due to the ghetto car thief believes that he is justified as society "owes" him something.





Which reminds me, you owe me a new Enlightometer, as mine broke. It is your fault, man. Can I just steal yours? Its justified...hehe

I agree with what you are saying. Me, if i was starving, and could not get a chance to get any money, even offering labour, I think I would end up stealing.. but that is when it gets down to the dire need of survival... I think that if one saw food, and were close to death, one would eat it...
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Swami]
    #1813817 - 08/14/03 03:57 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

also that brings on other subjects, such as...


not doing anything in a society which has theived from the world

the system is a messed up one i'm afraid.... we need to help each other out like the left hand attending a wound on the right


I beleive if somoens family is starving, and they have no choice but to steal some bread... what else can they do...

there are places where people work all day long, and dont earn enough to even eat.

I've seen people on the side of the rodes in india who shuvel dirt all day long onto baskets they then carry on their heads....and huge boulders that 3 people lift onto 1 of their heads

their considered lucky

I really hope I can remember the value of giving more...because when I think about it; theres nothing I need... I have been incredibly blessed and I owe the universe alot.... the people who suffer are my family and i gotta do something besides waste time


--------------------
I&I


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Rastafari]
    #1813835 - 08/14/03 04:05 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

We can go into extreme examples all day long. Most of us here have more than enough yet have all stolen at times because it was easy, convenient, we knew we wouldn't get caught, the owner would not miss the item, or some other "valid" reason.

I merely suggested the opening phrase about something being offered to you as a moral compass when you have doubt. A common example is pirating software, videos or music when the author or publisher is definitely NOT offering it to you gratis, Yet you rationlize it because "everyone else is doing it", "they expect it to happen" or some other totally unspiritual bullshit.

Now, of course, graft is offered, but is in clear violation of the oath to the office held.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (08/14/03 04:08 PM)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Swami]
    #1813853 - 08/14/03 04:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Me, I don't download songs and such and rationalize it as "everyone else is doing it", or "they expect it to happen", only "I want these songs, I can't afford all of these cds, and it is so easy and convient", and then not really think about it further... hehe

The artists that I actually care about, the really good music, I eventually go out and buy, or rather, like I did before I was eighteen, rip off BMG and CDHQ... changing one letter in both last and first names creates another possibility to get the first seven cds, free of charge...

Doesn't sound legal, does it? Nah.. but "eh...", I'm born an American, I don't have to think about that.. hehe.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1813869 - 08/14/03 04:17 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

"Instant Karma's gonna get you!" - John Lennon

Think of the baby, FG! For God's sake, think of the baby!


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Definition of Theft [Re: Swami]
    #1813872 - 08/14/03 04:19 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

i got alot of karma to deal with


but the best way to do that is not to just refrain but to correct the mistakes you made


to give is to receive



I dont think its such an extreme example, but more a practical everyday example to mention the fact that our system is highly fucked up and has stolen the wealth from the rest of the world

thats something we are all a part of if we just 'go about our business' in this society

so I think that if we give when we have more than enough available to places where the money will go the furthest...thats a very valuable attitude to have


--------------------
I&I


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