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InvisibletrendalM
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Definition of 'ego'
    #2726109 - 05/25/04 03:27 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Started in: this thread

I think it would be quite beneficial if we could all come to an agreement on what the "ego" is and how it is defined. As many have pointed out, a lot of misinterpretation goes on in this forum...let's at least clear a little up eh :smile:

Dictionary.com (which, I've been told, is bad for these kind of definitions) says that "ego" is:

e?go    ( P )  n. pl. e?gos

1. The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
2. In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.

3. a. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit.
b. Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.

---------------

although it doesn't seem too far off from what I think of as "ego". :smirk:

In fact, I think I will use that definition to describe what I think "ego" is. Numbers 1 and 2 are both right on: I think of ego as what separates me from others, in terms of personality and such. It is most likely not the only "part" of what makes up Me as a whole, though.

Number 3a would be my example of ego gone wrong, and 3b would be my example of a properly functioning ego.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2726130 - 05/25/04 03:34 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

i completely agree.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2726170 - 05/25/04 03:47 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
Started in: this thread

I think it would be quite beneficial if we could all come to an agreement on what the "ego" is and how it is defined. As many have pointed out, a lot of misinterpretation goes on in this forum...let's at least clear a little up eh :smile:

Dictionary.com (which, I've been told, is bad for these kind of definitions) says that "ego" is:

e?go    ( P )  n. pl. e?gos

1. The self, especially as distinct from the world and other selves.
2. In psychoanalysis, the division of the psyche that is conscious, most immediately controls thought and behavior, and is most in touch with external reality.

3. a. An exaggerated sense of self-importance; conceit.
b. Appropriate pride in oneself; self-esteem.

---------------

although it doesn't seem too far off from what I think of as "ego". :smirk:

In fact, I think I will use that definition to describe what I think "ego" is. Numbers 1 and 2 are both right on: I think of ego as what separates me from others, in terms of personality and such. It is most likely not the only "part" of what makes up Me as a whole, though.

Number 3a would be my example of ego gone wrong, and 3b would be my example of a properly functioning ego.




Can you define Egoless?


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Mr_Gubjet]
    #2726183 - 05/25/04 03:50 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Egoless: not having an ego (see definition: ego) :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2726248 - 05/25/04 04:12 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2726269 - 05/25/04 04:30 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with that completely.


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Sclorch]
    #2726891 - 05/25/04 10:44 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah that deoxy link explains it perfectly. I read that a long while ago and it helped shape my own understanding of the ego.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: deff]
    #2727114 - 05/25/04 12:02 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

"Yeah that deoxy link explains it perfectly."

it sure does...wow...definately helped clear up some things I have been thinking about. thanks for that link!


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2727171 - 05/25/04 12:17 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I might take it one step further and describe the ego as a part of the brain that identifies with survival of self, including self identity and personality.
But I would agree with that definition for the most part.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2727206 - 05/25/04 12:25 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Gr8!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2727242 - 05/25/04 12:37 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


I think of ego as what separates me from others, in terms of personality and such. It is most likely not the only "part" of what makes up Me as a whole, though.





What about the perspective of somebody else looking at you? What does your ego have to do with them defining you (separating you from others).

What I am trying to say is that it isn't our ego which defines us. It is our ego which differentiates what we observe/experience and applies lables and catagories.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Seuss]
    #2727252 - 05/25/04 12:41 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I also think the ego is also the 'personality' that we mold according to our experiences, and people DO define others by their personality.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Seuss]
    #2727265 - 05/25/04 12:46 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

yeah i agree the ego actually define us...but rather to ego tries to define ourselves. The ego is like a filter that has a say on what my awareness picks up on. that's where the limitation is, because it literally chooses to see reality a certain way. this to me is the essence of our personality. what we choose to experience and how we deal with it, this to me helps shape our personality. the ego tries to decide what stays in our minds and what goes based on our ideas, morals...etc. so the ego definately has a lot to do with the progression of our personality.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.---senior doobie


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Shroomism]
    #2727267 - 05/25/04 12:47 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I agree, the ego is what differentiates our personalities. It is the most outwardly visible aspect of our Self.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2727447 - 05/25/04 01:38 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I believe that the ego is the conscious sense of self. That is, the ego is the mental representation of one's being and its boundaries.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2727522 - 05/25/04 02:05 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

And to the extent that we're aware of our egos, we can manipulate those aspects of ourselves (appearence, actions we take) that are most easily changable in order to illict certain responses from other individuals. However, our egos have more to do with the forces shaping how we'd like to present ourselves to others and ourselves than how we necessarily present ourselves. There is a certain formality to ego that is implied by its self-awareness.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Panoramix]
    #2727608 - 05/25/04 02:36 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

> I believe that the ego is the conscious sense of self.

Exactly what I was trying to say... the ego is where the sense of oneself comes from, it is not actually what makes/defines oneself.

I would even go so far as to claim that the ego is what drives most of our reaction to situations... the reason we behave as we do... but I would not claim that our personalities are defined by our ego alone.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Seuss]
    #2727783 - 05/25/04 03:11 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

"but I would not claim that our personalities are defined by our ego alone" Yeah, there's a set of behavior patterns that appeal to me on an unconcious or preconcious level.  Even if I were in a situation where it would be more advantageous for me to behave in ways that contradict my personality, I can't really do that.  For example, I'm pretty laid-back and non-violent.  During an attempted mugging, I've had trouble acting hostilely towards people who were being rather aggressive with me.  I'm just not the sort of person who hits people.  The part of me most easily definable as my 'self' is saying 'They're hitting you, you should hit them back', but something that has just as much to do with who I am realizes that such an action would be detrimental not only towards them in the short-term, but also towards myself in the long-term.  So in the interest of "They're only kids, better to tough it out and remove myself and those pieces of property these kids are intent on acquiring from the area in which their presence is causing the willingness on the kids' part, and possible necessity on my part to do violence" my personality as defined as those aspects of my behavior I can't and don't particularly want to change can override my ego as defined by Shroomism as "...the part of the brain that identifies with 'survival of self'".  Though my personality has an underlying defining effect on my ego, my ego determines my concious actions and experiences, which in turn act to shape my personality...  wait a minute...  :weirdeyes:
I like what kaiowas was saying... "So the ego definately has a lot to do with the progression of our personality" which itself has key role in our thoughts and actions, providing a context with which our ego can operate.  Maybe.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Panoramix]
    #2727817 - 05/25/04 03:21 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I agree that the ego is the defining sense of self, as well as a sort of filter that this creates in order to percieve a reality suited for our consciousness. This is why egodeath is key to viewing everything fully subjectively, and why I stand by many "revelations" that have come to me in this state.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2728042 - 05/25/04 04:26 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

defining ego in terms of self is like defining art in terms of work, or interms of wealth. a poor pointer to a different question!

what is self??? (what is ego??)

is ego the part of self that relates to experiencing or is it the part of self that relates to the history and baggage? (maybe the part that filters experiencing to suggest reactions)

is ego something separate from self ?

is self the experiencing component and ego the automation resource? -
the bag of conditioned responses?

is self separate from world or part of it
is ego separate from world or part of it?
is there a good or bad to any of this?


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2728068 - 05/25/04 04:32 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Ego is a word, a sound or combination of symbols, created by humans, and used to describe a number of different ideas. People have different views on the matter, but that's not important. What's important is that all these seperate views may all be valid, so why try to isolate just one and apply it to the very inert three letter word. Of course 'ego' in the sense of a self-defining force, is impossible to describe or know, seeing how it applies to our own self.

It is impossible to subjectively view something that creates the illusion of 'I'.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2728113 - 05/25/04 04:43 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

So I write this here, without reading the previous stuff.
Quite risky, but otherwise I will forget, what to say :blush:
Edit and delete is always a good option so...

For me, the damned ego-thing is nothing more then the patternconnectionability of our electrified over-brain, the neocortex. There, crazy psychiatrists proofed the existence of the higher mind-abilities like counsciesnes and recognition. They stuck pretty little electrodes into the neocortex and there appeared hallucinations and multilevel 'pattern-influence'. In there, all our brain-fluctures come together to patterns, from the different lower mindregions and form our 'weak' kind of couscious existence. On which we tend to relay often too much. You can call this part of existence 'ego' and from a very abstract and immaterial angle, it can refill and restimulate matter back to life and so much more.
The ego for me is the 'first over the water peak' from the ice-block forming couscious on the material level.
A big try and hope for the universe to get itself reknown and reaffectet by itself on a level where counsciousness ('reborn' through evolution) affects matter back in a straight way :wink:


Just my some cent. Sorry, for some unknown reason I couldn't resist to write that. I followed and chewed on that ego-thread quite a while since :wink:
Now I will read the previous messages :laugh:
Okay, stands :wink: But ego is no prime filter...more the forming of some unifying patterns out of low mind, which reflect back on your behaviour and therefor seams like a filter :wink: These patterns reinfluence your behaviour and so construct your experience which is forming back on your patterns again :wink: So the cycle is closed :wink:
Humpf :laugh:
Great post redgreen, the ego has covered so much of the self...
(then just reading the link...Oh fuck that's long...reading afterwards )
THen my last thought was...when the ego is developed enough, it can regain it purpose from its soul and spiritual guide, wich can evvenly cover your thoughts from below and above. Like fully conscious animals :smile:

So now you just can call me crazy, but I hope I gave enough 'material' to think about :wink: I have to reanalyze, too. But it should have been worth a post :wink:
Perhaps I can bring it together a bit better later :nut:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (05/25/04 05:04 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #2728210 - 05/25/04 05:01 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

> So now you just can call me crazy

You must be crazy... you actually used more smiley faces in a post than I would have.  Sheesh...

:grin:  <--- you missed that one!


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2729326 - 05/25/04 09:10 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I'm fairly sure we're working with an 'ego is the aspect of ourselves that is concious of itself' supposition here... If we aren't seperating self from an external world, any discussion you could hope to have about ego would be pretty limited. For the sake of being able to communicate ideas, certain assumptions must be made. This doesn't necessarily mean that self is seperate from the world, but it's hard to discuss things that are incommunicable because of the grandness of all-being-One. Distinctions and generalizations and assumptions get made at every level of any intelligent exchange of ideas. The thing to do is realize these synthesis ideas are limited insofar as they have definition and that is why you needn't worry, because I'm wrong. You just have to internalize the idea into an unlimited, undefined dialectic concept that you know you'll never be able to communicate clearly to anyone else and try to express it as best you might when circumstances allow. Get around to it indirectly is a pretty effective manner of doing this.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: trendal]
    #2729677 - 05/25/04 10:24 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with the definitions you found, if we're putting ego in a nutshell.  :grin:


--------------------
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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2730112 - 05/25/04 11:52 PM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
defining ego in terms of self is like defining art in terms of work, or interms of wealth. a poor pointer to a different question!

what is self??? (what is ego??)




Defining ego as a sense of self does not imply that some metaphysically constant "self" actually exists. The "ego" IMO is simply the (re)presentation of "self" to the consciousness. In order for consciousness to interpret sensory information it must be in relation to some thing. The ego is an implicit necessity for consciousness. Without ego there is no experience (and thus no consciousness). Without ego there is only sensory data.

Quote:

is ego the part of self that relates to experiencing or is it the part of self that relates to the history and baggage?




Primarily to experiencing, but it may be shaped in a fashion that causes the consciousness to contextualize experience in terms of history and "baggage."

Quote:

is ego something separate from self ?




In the conventional sense of the word "self": no, but it may present itself as such.


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Revelation]
    #2731341 - 05/26/04 09:39 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

That deoxy link was an extremely interesting read.  Thank you for sharing it.

Edit: I always click on threads trendal starts, because I usually leave the thread with some acquired knowledge. Now am I feeding trendal's ego? :wink:

Oh trendal, the humblest of them all! Now look back at me and smile :smile:.

Edit: After reading that deoxy link, I've done a little afterthought. According to the deoxy reference, other's approval of myself feed the ego. What about my own interests? Say I buy a shirt that I like to make myself look good. That clearly feeds the ego. However, say I purchase a shirt that I like because I like the designs on it. Regardless of whether or not I think another person approves of my shirt, is this action valid for "ego feeding"?

Perhaps that was a bad example. The idea I try to convey is the notion of purchasing and obtaining things for your personal pleasure. Could doing so subconciously feed your ego? Nonetheless, as I am writing this I have come to the conclusion that it does feed ones' ego because now the ego is not desiring attention from others but rather materials. Alack, instead of you approving of my actions, I approve of my own actions. I take the place of your approval. Quite strange. Just thinking aloud.  :laugh:


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Edited by daba (05/26/04 09:52 AM)


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2731617 - 05/26/04 11:47 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

I asked some of the questions that have led me to believe that the ego is the electro-bio-mechanically base that supports our living responding body-selves. (like a robotic program)

In a way, I think that the self is inseparable from it but that the self is also connected to an unconditioned totality which goes beyond ego. (I don't really want to think I am just a robotic program)

The mind (in which the ego resides) supports a consciousness that accepts input from 5 senses and memory from which continuous feeds battle for attention. We learn how to navigate this rich input/throughput, and that learning is very much summarized by ego - the management routines. (sets of filter, mask, response routines - robotically stimulated)

Still we are always free or able to attend to something else, and to change our tack. Free will. Is this also EGO? Is free will Inseparable from EGO? maybe. (or maybe it is a result of using the relaxation program or series of releasing routines - not free will, but relaxed will, matured will. maybe)

maybe there is nothing beyond Ego, but if so, it can be reconditioned to sustain better morality, better art, better love, and better wisdom.

Quote:

Phencyclidine said:

Primarily to experiencing, but it may be shaped in a fashion that causes the consciousness to contextualize experience in terms of history and "baggage."

Quote:

me
is ego something separate from self ?




In the conventional sense of the word "self": no, but it may present itself as such.




Edited by redgreenvines (05/26/04 11:49 AM)


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: redgreenvines]
    #2734554 - 05/27/04 12:18 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
The mind (in which the ego resides) supports a consciousness that accepts input from 5 senses and memory from which continuous feeds battle for attention. We learn how to navigate this rich input/throughput, and that learning is very much summarized by ego - the management routines. (sets of filter, mask, response routines - robotically stimulated)




I would argue that the ego plays a large part in informing those processes that determine which sensory mode is allowed most input into consciousness and the nature of that information. If the ego is what defines the sense of the self, then surely it is reasonable to think that it plays a role in filtering information into the consciousness and constructing it in such a way as to help sustain a particular sense of identity. This line of thinking may put the ego in a role of restriction, because it seems that the ego must be shaping a static sense of self, though I would caution against assuming that this is true. Perhaps there are a regulatory forces that ensure the ego is not too rigid in constructing a coherent model of self (and by extension, the "outside" world).


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Re: Definition of 'ego' [Re: Phencyclidine]
    #2735627 - 05/27/04 08:40 AM (16 years, 11 months ago)

our repeated actions become habits
our habits become restrictions or structure.
our lives are built partly on this structure.

when we entheogenize, a good set and setting
(see this is structure too) provides that when the
filters are down, not much trouble happens.
later we may adjust the habits and over time
retrain the ego (bit by bit) to our more open understanding which we seek and find.

Mostly it is about relaxing (awake) and less kneejerk habit (sleepwalking)


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