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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock * 1
    #17743672 -

A seedling grafted onto a single pereskiopsis has its growth accelerated 5-10 times compared to on its own roots. Though this growth is temporary and the stock is not a permanent solution this accelerated growth is sought after. Now imagine if you could even further accelerate the growth by adding multiple pereskiopsis stock.

I've had this idea for a while now and have attempted it before but failed due to a lack of grafting experience. I've searched the web and have found a few references to this idea however haven't found a picture of a successful attempt or the results; I'm sure one exists.


The original idea is to do this by using the flat graft. However there is a limitation to this technique, the diameter of the vascular ring. If the scion isn't wide enough it limits the amount of pereskiopsis that maybe used to accelerate the growth. This concept should work with ANY stock however with large stock like a trichocereus you would be EXTREMELY limited to perhaps 4 stocks if they were modified for the rings to be in closer proximity. ONLY the flat graft would would with larger stocks.

Recently I've successfully grafted a Juuls Giant x LumberJack onto two pereskiopsis that were united by a side cut and some string. This graft is only a week old so I'm unsure of the amount of increased growth it has, if any, but 1 thing I can comment on is that since removing it from high humidity it has had daily growth shown by the apex spine growth. I'll be using a lopho as the scion in a few weeks once its large enough. This was the main goal of mine so I could attain faster flowering.




Now the reason for posting this is so others can test and find a better way of grafting multiple pereskiopsis without the limiting factor of the vascular ring's diameter. If you'll be attempting or have attempted something please post any fall backs and possible improvements to the technique.

A possibility I've thought of is getting a drill bit the size of the pereskiopsis and drilling slightly upward through the sides of the stock to the core than sharpening a pereskiopsis like a pencil and impaling the stock. This would be done AFTER performing the original flat graft with multiple pereskiopsis. The additional pereskiopsis would be "side stocks" added to surpass the restriction of the vascular ring.



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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17743678 -

Oh man, brilliant.  Watching this thread to see your results.  :congrats:


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RZJ's Tea Tek
RZJ's Tradelist

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: RiparianZoneJunky]
    #17743943 -

you are crazy modern. you are truly the MAD scientist.

good job with that and :goodluck:


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: ferrel_human]
    #17744035 -

I think this is how the world ends. Still, I approve of your methods and I am anticipating a good show.


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I'll make sense when I run out of lemons. Until then I'll make lemonade.

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: rockylampoon]
    #17744178 -

brilliant cant wait to see results


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Trade List

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17745176 -

Similar experiments have already been done in these sorts of online communities. You can find old threads at the usual places (maybe here too?) if you look hard enough. I know I have seen pictures too. I'll look if you want.

If I remember correctly in the end the conclusion was that the slight acceleration of growth really wasn't worth the trouble.

Like someone else pointed out, drilling is probably a poor choice. A clean cut with a scalpel or even some sort of "coring" tool fashioned from an appropriately sized piece of tube with the edges filed to sharpen it would be a much better choice for creating the hole you intend to insert the additional connection from.

NAA to aid in healing/vascular connection formation might be a good idea.

:popcorn:


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Let's upgrade our security practices and move toward client-side PGP for encrypted PMs.
My Public PGP Key: hxxps://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24002249#24002249

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: naum]
    #17745559 -

naum if you could please post any links you can find as I'm having trouble finding it anything. I guess I'm using the wrong key words.


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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17745597 -

Yeah couldnt find it but there was a bloke on here who tried it. I remember him having like 8 peres plugged into it.

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: Shroomeup]
    #17747720 -

This probably the thread that you guys are talking about. I remember reading it at the time but all of the photos have gone.:sad:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7540606#7540606
This is why you shouldn't be able to remove photos as it just totally fucks the thread up and just about makes it worthless. :rant:

Cheers
Got


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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17747851 -

Wow. Amazing that I came up with this exact idea just yesterday.


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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: GoOnThen]
    #17748164 -

GoOnThen said:
This probably the thread that you guys are talking about. I remember reading it at the time but all of the photos have gone.:sad:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7540606#7540606
This is why you shouldn't be able to remove photos as it just totally fucks the thread up and just about makes it worthless. :rant:

Cheers
Got


AWESOME. Thanks a lot Got
Strangely the Images work for me when I click to view them. I'll repost some of the photos here if I'm the only one its working for.  :werd:


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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman] * 2
    #17748329 -

Well I got through reading the thread and it was pretty interesting.
The thing that needs to be known is how far to cut into the scion.

Like naum mentioned this may not be worth the hassle as the growth doesn't seem to be much difference however I would still think that young seedlings would still benefit from this in the short term.

Here are the photos from cpw1971 'Octavius'
10/21/2007

11/6/2007

11/16/2007

12/11/2007

5/4/2008

06/28/2008 Update photo didn't show for me
08/29/2008 Most of the pereskiopsis died so they were all removed.


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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman] * 1
    #17814572 -

At day 20 the main things I've noticed with this graft is that it is thicker and the spacing between the areolas has increased. The growth has started to pick up now that temperatures are getting hotter.

Jan 28, 2013


Feb 16, 2013


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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17817024 -

hmmmmmmm


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Someone said:  im actually not using ms, im using prints.
Trade List

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: Juke Adro] * 1
    #17817765 -

...Yo dawg i hurd you lyke graftin

:awejeez:


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Don't believe everything you think.  TRADE LIST

‹Sell Your Soul› You know this place is owned and operated by the Illuminati, right?
‹lsdwithme› i possibly just smoked a rat turd :facepalm:

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: POWAtrippin]
    #17853183 -

Small update with some measurements for future reference
~1 3/4" wide
~2 1/4" long





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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17853359 -

That's a real hoot MS good work.


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Someone said:  im actually not using ms, im using prints.
Trade List

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17857003 -

Quote:
modern.shaman said:A possibility I've thought of is getting a drill bit the size of the pereskiopsis and drilling slightly upward through the sides of the stock to the core than sharpening a pereskiopsis like a pencil and impaling the stock.


Somebody gave me a drill bit designed for tree grafting that's supposed to be the same taper as a pencil sharpener, that might be good for doing this. I haven't got around to getting a pencil sharpener to try it out though. It's called the plugger grafting bit.

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: modern.shaman]
    #17857190 -

Wow this is interesting.  Nice work MS.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Re: Pushing The Growth Limit - Using Multiple Grafting Stock [Re: SuperD]
    #18013278 -

03/24/13

~4 inches long
The spacing of the areolas has become even more spaced apart and this is in full sun. Due to cold temps recently there has been a slow down in growth rate. Once temps rise again I may attempt adding more pereskiopsis to this trichocereus.



2 weeks ago I grafted a lopho onto 2 pereskiopsis. The graft seems to have taken however the growth is not as strong as the trichocereus. The nubs of the areolas are becoming more spaced apart as the flesh grows. It's not bloating but seems to only be growing at the center? Not sure how to describe it. The lopho possibly doesn't have a good connection so I may reattempt this graft in the future.

Picture from 03/11/03


03/24/03


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