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Re: Depression [Re: xFrockx] * 1
    #17519500 -

Please don't show more ignorance than you have to Frock.  It's very unbecoming.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: xFrockx]
    #17519531 -

>> If you don't believe you can, then I suggest you change that belief.

>> Or you can feel all sad until you find pills for it or kill yourself.


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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17521131 -

depression can also come after you have completed some goal. It can be a big goal or some 'little' one like composing a blog, etc. I knowwwww. It has recently happened to me. AND there is the 2012 thang. I dont care what you say, I bet some of you had at least SOME kinda hope some thing was goonna happen. Even some amausing little imagined thing. But nooooo Jan2013 comes with yet more freary shit, news of cuts, weather's all fucked up, violence wars, invasions, ecocide, and that personal life problems which can very much get worse the older we get, because we have more of a fucked up past to deal with. THOUGH for kids it can be pretty heavy also and some kill themselves it is so heavy---they hate school, bulying, homelife, LIFE

Even though I've been on a downer i would never take medication. Dores that mean I dont want others too? Not really. What I tend to do is share what I know----that the very diagnosis OF 'clinical depression' is founding on subjective opnion and not on medical science----there exist no tests. SO--you get that info, and you may absorb it, but still yet---knowing there isn't much alternatives on offer in this fucked up culture we're livin in---feel you have to take them to get through a day. maybe you are responsible for kids and feel you need to get serious help. So you have the freedom to have that choice yeah. All I do is inform you of the myth of it, and then its up to you to see if what I say is true or false. So at least if you end up takin medication you may know that you aint got a biological disease like the authority claims and that what your doing is in a way similar to taking to illegal drugs. Suppressing how you feel. Though of course psychedelics taken intelligently dont suppress what you feel, they encourage you to feel suppressed feelings

Your breakthrough--crying about your heroin habit, and letting your emotions release is part of that. So depression or sadness is VERY freakin uncomfortable but at the same time IS HOW YOU FEEL at the time. it really may mean that you realize you are trapped in certain ways, and the awareness of this makes you feel...err trapped and sad. From there know you always have a choice. You could now walk to a river a jump in. You would take all money out of bank and fly to paris for the weekend. If no money you could.............?[fill in blank...cheque]lol

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Re: Depression [Re: zzripz]
    #17522106 -

All the people in this thread who said depression is a choice, and that people should just 'snap out of it' don't really make a lot of sense. Depression is a illness that occurs in the brain, not some choice. The choice aspect tries to pass off an image that depressed people like being depressed for some masochistic reason. Of course there could be some, but to say all depressed people like this is a huge generalization. This is silly. If you talk to seriously depressed people, and I know when I'm depressed, all depressed people really want is to feel happy, just like someone who is seriously sick cares only about getting better, and the periphery cares (sex, entertainment, money) sort of drop away, and the only care of the organism is to get back to proper functioning. Mental diseases are just as effected by the chemistry of the body as are physical diseases. Telling someone to snap out of depression is just like telling someone to snap out of terminal lung cancer.

Edited by White Beard (01/09/13 12:47 PM)

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Re: Depression [Re: White Beard]
    #17522292 -

White Beard said:
All the people in this thread who said depression is a choice, and that people should just 'snap out of it' don't really make a lot of sense.


+1.

But there are certain activities and thought patterns one could practice to "lower" depression.


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As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Depression [Re: Ped]
    #17522400 -

Ped said:
>> Depression is so confusing.  I don't know what happened when i IV'd that 4-fa but it unleashed a wall of pent up emotions i had been holding back and it felt so invigorating to express myself.

Were it not for the oppressive, stifling weight of the depression you had going in, do you think the experience would have been so revelatory?


I'm not quite sure but i feel as though i have "broken through" so to speak in terms of starting to recover (heroin addiction, depression, self loathing ect ect).  I haven't been depressed since monday, in fact i have been positive and enthusiastic about who i am and what i plan to do with my life.  I'm not sure if this foundation im currently building is forming from personal growth of just finally "getting it".  I have also been using MXE at night before bed for the past two nights... Ketamine is well known for it's anti-depressant effects and it's possible MXE may have the same property as well.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Depression [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17522475 -

Of course certain activities can prevent it. Cancer, also certain activities can reduce your chances of getting it. Not smoking, for example.

Once you have either one, it's harder to get rid of then it was to prevent. That's why depressed people often require medication.

I don't know how thought patterns could lower depression, because it seems like depression is an illness that effects the thought patterns themselves. Sort of like telling someone with aids to get cured by bolstering their immune system.

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Re: Depression [Re: White Beard]
    #17522496 -

Depression sucks and people don't understand it fully unless they have it.


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Re: Depression [Re: White Beard]
    #17522510 -

White Beard said:
I don't know how thought patterns could lower depression, because it seems like depression is an illness that effects the thought patterns themselves.


Delusions.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Depression [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17522625 -

My depression comes from negative self talk.  My unconscious dialog i tell myself.  You're not good enough, you can't, you're weak ect ect.  Through therapy i have come to terms that my negative self talk may not be true, but is actually the words what other people have told me.  When i heard those words over and over again they became apart of my self talk.  The truth is i can thrive, i can live happily as long as i don't believe the lies which i perceive as truth.  I am only perceiving my negative self talk as truth when i'm depressed... but when i'm depressed i believe thinking i can achieve happiness is a delusion, a delusion people create to give them a reason to feel good about their lives.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Depression [Re: White Beard]
    #17522945 -

White Beard said:
All the people in this thread who said depression is a choice, and that people should just 'snap out of it' don't really make a lot of sense. Depression is a illness that occurs in the brain, not some choice. The choice aspect tries to pass off an image that depressed people like being depressed for some masochistic reason. Of course there could be some, but to say all depressed people like this is a huge generalization. This is silly. If you talk to seriously depressed people, and I know when I'm depressed, all depressed people really want is to feel happy, just like someone who is seriously sick cares only about getting better, and the periphery cares (sex, entertainment, money) sort of drop away, and the only care of the organism is to get back to proper functioning. Mental diseases are just as effected by the chemistry of the body as are physical diseases. Telling someone to snap out of depression is just like telling someone to snap out of terminal lung cancer.



oftentimes on these things i feel like I am even trying to talk with people that cannot see what i type, or a brick wall, because nothing said is either challenged or absorbed.

or COURSE people wanna be happy. But for lots of people they get into life situations where for either known or unknown reasons they AREN'T happy. And to imagine you calways be ever-so-happy is stupid anyway. throughout the day our moods change. You aren't all happy-wappy through they day ...right? So what does that evwen mean 'i ant to be happy all the time'. It is silly idea. We also dont want to be sad all the time, yet true some so-called clinically depressed people are, and some ma7y ever refuse to get out of bed, eat, wash, etc etc.

Of COURSE they haven't chosen that. But A L S O there is no actual medical science which saysd that condition is a a biological disease, or a 'chamical imbalance. All of that is a M Y T H. And what this myth does is absolve the reality of civilization that can put people into various oppressive trapsk, externally and internally to such an extent they feel extremely sad. A lot of times people aren't aware WHY they feel so sad. They may have success, possession, etc etc, and culture claims this must makes us feel happy, or at least content....yes?

A good analogy is like the child in school. Culture has told him school is a given reality she MUST accept. This has been internalized in the child so much so they cannot imagine a realituy without the presence of school---it is unthnikable. ALL kids HAVE to go to school and do well, dont they? That is what this culture pushes very violently. But wait---the kid is desperately unhappy and doesn't fit in...AND feels suicidal.

...Now what happens?

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Re: Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #17523047 -

That's really not true for me as far as I can tell.  I don't seem to have a lot of that kind of talk going on in my brain anymore.  I did when I was young however.  Now I tell myself I'm plenty good enough and everyone else needs work. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Depression [Re: zzripz]
    #17523117 -

zzripz said:
White Beard said:
All the people in this thread who said depression is a choice, and that people should just 'snap out of it' don't really make a lot of sense. Depression is a illness that occurs in the brain, not some choice. The choice aspect tries to pass off an image that depressed people like being depressed for some masochistic reason. Of course there could be some, but to say all depressed people like this is a huge generalization. This is silly. If you talk to seriously depressed people, and I know when I'm depressed, all depressed people really want is to feel happy, just like someone who is seriously sick cares only about getting better, and the periphery cares (sex, entertainment, money) sort of drop away, and the only care of the organism is to get back to proper functioning. Mental diseases are just as effected by the chemistry of the body as are physical diseases. Telling someone to snap out of depression is just like telling someone to snap out of terminal lung cancer.



oftentimes on these things i feel like I am even trying to talk with people that cannot see what i type, or a brick wall, because nothing said is either challenged or absorbed.

or COURSE people wanna be happy. But for lots of people they get into life situations where for either known or unknown reasons they AREN'T happy. And to imagine you calways be ever-so-happy is stupid anyway. throughout the day our moods change. You aren't all happy-wappy through they day ...right? So what does that evwen mean 'i ant to be happy all the time'. It is silly idea. We also dont want to be sad all the time, yet true some so-called clinically depressed people are, and some ma7y ever refuse to get out of bed, eat, wash, etc etc.

Of COURSE they haven't chosen that. But A L S O there is no actual medical science which saysd that condition is a a biological disease, or a 'chamical imbalance. All of that is a M Y T H. And what this myth does is absolve the reality of civilization that can put people into various oppressive trapsk, externally and internally to such an extent they feel extremely sad. A lot of times people aren't aware WHY they feel so sad. They may have success, possession, etc etc, and culture claims this must makes us feel happy, or at least content....yes?

A good analogy is like the child in school. Culture has told him school is a given reality she MUST accept. This has been internalized in the child so much so they cannot imagine a realituy without the presence of school---it is unthnikable. ALL kids HAVE to go to school and do well, dont they? That is what this culture pushes very violently. But wait---the kid is desperately unhappy and doesn't fit in...AND feels suicidal.

...Now what happens?


I meant that post for the thread in general and not specifically your post, sorry, I should have responded to the OP.

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Re: Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #17524936 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
My depression comes from negative self talk.  My unconscious dialog i tell myself.  You're not good enough, you can't, you're weak ect ect.  Through therapy i have come to terms that my negative self talk may not be true, but is actually the words what other people have told me.  When i heard those words over and over again they became apart of my self talk.  The truth is i can thrive, i can live happily as long as i don't believe the lies which i perceive as truth.  I am only perceiving my negative self talk as truth when i'm depressed... but when i'm depressed i believe thinking i can achieve happiness is a delusion, a delusion people create to give them a reason to feel good about their lives.


Wow. I feel EXACTLY the same way :thumbup:

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Re: Depression [Re: birdland]
    #17525044 -

Yeah negative self talk is annoying sometimes.  Ever since i was a child i have been told i'm not good enough, i'm a fuck up, i'll never amount to anything A-'s aren't good enough I expect A's and A+'s...  I played soccer at high level and when i didn't get any scholarships from a D1 school oh boy did i hear the criticism about how "i'm not good enough" and after years and years of coming home and hearing these comments about me i started to and now have believed them.  It's crazy how your past life experiences especially in childhood shape who you are and your attitudes as an adult.  For example adults who were abused (verbal, physical sexual) as a child are at a higher risk of developing substance abuse problems or mental health problems.  People cope with life in different ways.  For some reason i feel as though something is missing in my life, and if i could just find a this or a that it could fit that piece into my life and i could be truly happy and balanced and in harmony with our lives and my existence in the world.  I may not be conscious but it's how i feel.  I thought i found it with heroin.  After that first IV injection i thought "omg omg this is it, i've found what i've been looking for).  For a while it did make me truly happy, i found that piece of me that's missing, i am not whole with out. it was not a sustainable form of happiness and ultimately i have been in and out of rehab 3 times only staying clean for 2-3 months at a time before relapsing.  It ruined my life... and set me back 4 years on my education and career path.  I'm on suboxone now and currently weening, but in the past 8 months i've been on it i've been able to put my life together as best as possible and mend relationship and trust issues with friends and family and mend issues i have about loving myself.  When i'm depressed i don't love myself, i just wish i could get this show on the road and die already im sick of it.  I think loving and believing in yourself is what defines happiness at least in my life it does.

I could have never imagined that my life turned out the way it has.  NEVER imagined it.  I grew up in a suburban keeping up with the jonses well johnny is a good ball player so i have to be better then johnny at playing ball so my parents can go to social events and talk about how good their son is so on and so forth.  It was like my life was a big charade, and the opinions of ourselves from other people was more important that our OWN opinion of ourselves.  I went from being a high school senior 18 years old with so much potential and so many opportunities and i threw them all away.  I wasn't a full on heroin addict junkie till i was 19.  I'm 23 years old now.  I'm not a kid anymore.  All of that time i was supposed to use to transition into a life path of happiness and success, was spent hanging around with other junkies, selling dope, middle manning dope, running a mid scale heroin distribution ring with a mexican supplier and high profit margin.  I had a lot of money and a lot of drugs and it was a disaster.  It ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL went into a needle and up my arm.  I NEVER imaged my life has turned out the way it has.  I accepted that, i'm actually ready to move on i'm not just saying that so i can get people off of my back.  I was just a kid.  18-19 year old kid driving around with 10's of years in prison sitting in the car in firearms and heroin.  I thought "Fuck the world man, the world is keeping me down, there is something wrong with the world."  When in reality there maybe something wrong with the world, but the problem IS me.  It's my decision making, it's the choices I'VE made that have been the problem.  My life has been a result of either my respomsibilty or neglagence of responsibility.  The world didn't make me who i am, i choose to become who i am.  SO i can stop blaming our society and our governments and our this and our that.  Because ultimatly you are responsible for your own life... and if it's shitty you need to see someone and work out issues YOU have with YOURSELF and stop blaming other people or external sources.  When i realized I was the problem, i could start my path towards recovery.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

Edited by Cognitive_Shift (01/09/13 10:00 PM)

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Re: Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #17526110 -

Quote:
I played soccer at high level and when i didn't get any scholarships from a D1 school oh boy did i hear the criticism about how "i'm not good enough" and after years and years of coming home and hearing these comments about me i started to and now have believed them.  It's crazy how your past life experiences especially in childhood shape who you are and your attitudes as an adult.



Yes their worldview becomes internalized in the child/adult and you thus becomes your worldview. Meaning you can never be satisfied or at ease with how you really are because it is never right.

But I don't agree with you that it is all your fault. As just said, you as an innocent kid are indoctrinated with all that toxic worldview. That is THEIR responsibility NOT to do that to a child. A child is open and needing love and proper support and guidance.

And also of course the wider culture is also responsible. It is that culture which imposes the worldview your parents took on and pushed on you because it was pushed on them as kids--and so on down the line. This culture, even though it fucks up countless children and adults, will blame the children and adults if they becomes distressed (which they MUST do in an insane world), and claim you are 'maladjusted' and/or 'mentally ill'. Doing that they absolve any blame for their own actions which creates this toxic world in the first place. Of course it is BOTH the individual and the culture to blame. When we become adults we can then begin to understand what is going on, and choose to speak out against this toxic world. But if we JUST blame ourselves then that is only half of the problem, isn't it?

Edited by zzripz (01/10/13 02:31 AM)

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Re: Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #17526481 -

I never actually considered that self-dialogue might actually be the cause or at least part of it until I started counseling a couple of years ago. My mother, who I grew up with, was not overly critical but overly absent. My peers were critical though and I was a loner through all of high school until maybe the last 2 years. I was bullied a lot at school and for whatever reason I just wouldn't stand up for myself. I was constantly told I'm a loser with no friends I'd accept it since it was true. I would get told I was ugly and laughed at and believe it since I had a negative self-image anyway. I would get told I should kill myself and despite being a horrible thing to say I would just take it as I was telling myself the same thing anyway. :shrug:

These are just a few examples, I can't really remember much of it in great detail but I think the fact I wouldn't stand up for myself meant that it really effected me and I think a lot of my negative self-dialogue would come from this period.

My life away from school was equally lonely since my mother has been chronically depressed my entire life. It was particularly bad in my child/teen years when she had some pinched nerves or something like that in her back and was essentially bedridden from the pain. She would go on about how bad her health was and how she was going to be dead in a few years time (complete bullshit but I believed it). She was never supportive or loving and never put in the hard work to actually bond with me. I remember how she would cry herself to sleep and sob about how she missed/needed her parents every single night and I would be wide awake, listening, telling myself "this is fucked up" :lol: ... I would tell myself "this is not healthy to be around, this is fucking me up", and looking back I think it did; it might be at least partly to blame for why I never stood up for myself.

I could go on forever about this stuff but my point is that I can correlate all these past experiences to the way my head is today. All those mental associations and habits I formed in my growing and development phase may not actually be helping me but holding me back.

Self dialogue is something I've started working on and it certainly helps to weed out all those irrational, painful thoughts. The problem is when I fall deep in depression, all that negative shit doesn't seem irrational at all but on the contrary any positive thoughts that could potentially improve my quality of living are what seem irrational and plain dumb. I look at people who seem okay and tell myself that they're just living a lie; life is meaningless and they haven't come to terms with this yet. I'll never be happy, I'll never feel good. No one cares about me and why would they? etc.

What I'm learning is that I have some control over where my awareness resides and I don't have to slip back in to old habits of thinking if I'm mindful enough to catch myself in the act. In fact it seems to be better to have less awareness/attention on thoughts in the first place if they're always going to be self-defeating.

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Re: Depression [Re: birdland]
    #17526495 -

How would you have stood up for yourself against those bullies at school? Give us some examples?

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Re: Depression [Re: zzripz]
    #17526521 -

Quote:
How would you have stood up for yourself against those bullies at school?


If I knew how to, I would have.

I'm more mature now and would not be effected in the same way if a group of assholes decided not to accept me.

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Re: Depression [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #17526535 -

I'm 23 years old now.  I'm not a kid anymore.  All of that time i was supposed to use to transition into a life path of happiness and success, was spent hanging around with other junkies, selling dope, middle manning dope, running a mid scale heroin distribution ring with a mexican supplier and high profit margin.  I had a lot of money and a lot of drugs and it was a disaster.  It ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL went into a needle and up my arm.  I NEVER imaged my life has turned out the way it has.  I accepted that, i'm actually ready to move on i'm not just saying that so i can get people off of my back.  I was just a kid.  18-19 year old kid driving around with 10's of years in prison sitting in the car in firearms and heroin.  I thought "Fuck the world man, the world is keeping me down, there is something wrong with the world."  When in reality there maybe something wrong with the world, but the problem IS me.  It's my decision making, it's the choices I'VE made that have been the problem.  My life has been a result of either my respomsibilty or neglagence of responsibility.  The world didn't make me who i am, i choose to become who i am.  SO i can stop blaming our society and our governments and our this and our that.  Because ultimatly you are responsible for your own life... and if it's shitty you need to see someone and work out issues YOU have with YOURSELF and stop blaming other people or external sources.  When i realized I was the problem, i could start my path towards recovery.

I disagree with pretty much all of this.  But you're on some kind of high now and there's not much use talking about it.  But in time you'll get it, you're a smart lad.

I will say this however. All that "potential" wasted while you missed your "path to happiness and success" is an illusion.  Those other folk are all junkies just like you.  You haven't wasted anything. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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