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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: qman]
    #17488992 -

I was deployed several times and there was plenty defense spending wasted there. Also this obamacare is bull, I already pay my own health insurance why should we pay other peoples healthcare as well. I get and understand social services, but hell, insurance is already pricey. I still hated all the tax loop holes they need to be closed.

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: mpd]
    #17488999 -

mpd said:
Oh don't be fooled - everyone's taxes are going up this year.  Now you get to start paying for your "free" Obamacare.  That is going to cost the average joe about $350 more in taxes this year.  For a family of four that is $1,400 more smackers going to Uncle Sugar.



Uncle Sugar.

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: viveo]
    #17489001 -

Shins said:
meanwhile patlal my canadian comrade ignores everything i say and continues to be fixated on useless tax tinkering.

patlal, the money is a ponzi scheme, are you aware of this?


Most people think of our governments financial problem like a individuals personal financial predicament, just make (tax) more money and cut down on expenses, and the problem goes away. As we know, our problem is much more complicated than that, most don't seem to grasp the severity of the situation.

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: DeadHearts]
    #17489004 -

I love this guy...


Peter Schiff schools CNBC's Senior Economic Reporter Steve Liesman



--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: qman]
    #17489013 -

Govt contractors are getting slashed quite a bit as well, so many have reaped the benefits of milking the govt with these wars for so long, I've seen many work for the govt for 6 years and have enough to retire on.

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: Shins]
    #17489068 -

All we need is a strong growing economy. The deficit doesn't matter. You can scream about cutting spending or cutting taxes, but both amount to cutting the economy. The government spends money. It provides a positive input into the economy. Anything it sucks out of businesses it throws right back in to other businesses. So shut up about how the government is screwing you and go make a real difference.
I know none of you will listen and just want to continue to pointlessly argue, but seriously, the economy will keep growing if people stop freaking out about it. The main problem in this country is that things are fine, so we find the stupidest shit to find reasons to argue about.

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: Lynnch] * 2
    #17489116 -

Lynnch said:
All we need is a strong growing economy. The deficit doesn't matter. You can scream about cutting spending or cutting taxes, but both amount to cutting the economy. The government spends money. It provides a positive input into the economy. Anything it sucks out of businesses it throws right back in to other businesses. So shut up about how the government is screwing you and go make a real difference.
I know none of you will listen and just want to continue to pointlessly argue, but seriously, the economy will keep growing if people stop freaking out about it. The main problem in this country is that things are fine, so we find the stupidest shit to find reasons to argue about.


"The deficit doesn't matter"

Yes it does, why not just run it up to $50 trillion then?:facepalm:

"the economy will keep growing if people stop freaking out about it"

So this is nothing more than a psychological problem? If it were only so easy.

"The main problem in the country is that things are fine"  Depends on your definition of fine, most economic indicators would not agree with your assessment.

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: Lynnch] * 1
    #17489129 -

Lynnch said:
All we need is a strong growing economy. The deficit doesn't matter.


the deficit matters to achieving a strong growing economy.

you cannot have a strong growing economy without adressing the debt.

your premise is flawed.


Quote:
You can scream about cutting spending or cutting taxes, but both amount to cutting the economy. The government spends money. It provides a positive input into the economy.


this is true, and is is exaclty why liberals turn a blind eye to the corrupt bankers and their entrapment ponzi scheme,  it allows them to spend to their hearts desire.  liberals are in league with the criminal bankers whether they realize it or not.

Quote:
Anything it sucks out of businesses it throws right back in to other businesses.


1. wrong, it goes through the beaurocratic wash cycle first where all the vultures get their picks. 

2. it is not the role of the government to redistribute wealth from one business to another.

3. this scenario is totally void of market forces and price discovery which causes malinvestment, inefficiency and stagnation.


Quote:
So shut up about how the government is screwing you and go make a real difference.


not going to happen.

when you're getting assfucked by a rapist just shut up and take it... go make a difference.

Quote:
I know none of you will listen and just want to continue to pointlessly argue, but seriously, the economy will keep growing


the economy is not growing.


Quote:
if people stop freaking out about it. The main problem in this country is that things are fine, so we find the stupidest shit to find reasons to argue about.



no you see its not that there is no problem, its that you apparently dont have any idea what it is.

DID YOU READ ANY OF MY POSTS

DO YOU REALIZE THAT THE MONETARY SYSTEM IS A PONZI SHCEME?

CAN YOU HEAR ME? IS ANYONE AT HOME IN THERE?



--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: qman]
    #17489136 -

if the deficit doesnt matter, then lets lower taxes to 0%

how about that libs?

jesus fucking christ.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: Shins]
    #17489144 -

Anyone else notice that silver is back up over $31 and copper and all the other metals are on the rise too>? and also that they are doing away with the REAL american nickle THIS year... from 75% copper and 25% nickle to like a fraction of the value in steel...

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: qman]
    #17489169 -

Don't care. I'm tired of reading stupid opinions on global economics from people that hardly have a grasp of what goes on in their own wallets, so I decided to add my own bullshit post to the mix.
  It doesn't matter guys. Even if you could comprehend what a trillion dollars of debt means in a global sense, whatever halfassed idea you're parroting from a youtube video won't even come close to addressing whatever supposed problem is facing the entire world right now. It's not as simple as taxes or less spending.

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: Shins] * 1
    #17489183 -

Shins, should we have sex








































































































































or make love?>




One thing I want to add to this discussion is that this isn't a "Blue vs. Red" thing.  Both sides of the aisle are apart of the same scheme to deprive you of your right to exist peacefully without being harmed or stolen from.  Each have issues that they cater to but Republicans have NEVER been "small government".  That's a lie that they tell to their "base" to garner votes.  Is the defense budget "small government"?  What about the 2-3 fold growth in the criminal justice system and incarceration system since the early 80s, is that "small government"?


What about the BEVVY of laws that republicans constantly support in wanting to regulate what other people put in and take out of their bodies (drugs and abortion), or republican votes against gay marriage?

Let us not confuse the issue here, it's really simple.  The VAST majority of politicans are actively trying to make money by harming you and your family. Some of the rest are ignorant while the remainder are completely ineffective at stemming the tide of the rights deprivations that have hit America within the last 50-60 years or so.


--------------------

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: DeadHearts]
    #17489241 -

DeadHearts said:
mpd said:
Oh don't be fooled - everyone's taxes are going up this year.  Now you get to start paying for your "free" Obamacare.  That is going to cost the average joe about $350 more in taxes this year.  For a family of four that is $1,400 more smackers going to Uncle Sugar.



Uncle Sugar.


We pay for it anyway whether it's there or not.

I just don't like being told what to do.


--------------------
http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: Humility]
    #17489251 -

I think most politicians start out wanting to do the right thing, then get the awakening of how things are run, they can't make a difference as one person, and then just get sucked in to the money side of it.

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: viveo]
    #17489263 -

I think the government has it's place without it things would be a lot worse, but I also don't believe in the government being the all seeing eye , and micromanaging the states, that is for state govt, not the fed govt. States should have more power, and the fed government should have a much tighter focus, on what it does, and can do.

Sorry for the double post....

Edited by viveo (01/03/13 01:00 AM)

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: viveo]
    #17489421 -

viveo said:
Govt contractors are getting slashed quite a bit as well, so many have reaped the benefits of milking the govt with these wars for so long, I've seen many work for the govt for 6 years and have enough to retire on.


I agree, there needs to be a great deal of cuts to defense spending.  First overseas, then in the US.  So I have an idea.  All these Democrat Congressmen who want to cut defense spending should cut bases in their home districts.  It's 'shared sacrifice.'  I'll bet that idea floats like a cast-iron balloon. :smirk:


--------------------
:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: starfire_xes]
    #17489811 -

starfire_xes said:
Yessir, they even managed to get 1.7 Billion worth of pork in for Goldman Sachs and Bank of America, 165 million for Hollywood, 70 Million for NASCAR, and other huge loads of pork for special interests....GREAT JOB!!!


Yes, I sent a note to my REP.....who voted NO on this travesty.


Yeah. The black guy slipped in some payback for his buds in NASCAR.

BTW, you seemed to love this pork last week when it involved oil companies.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: Lynnch]
    #17489827 -

Lynnch said:
All we need is a strong growing economy. The deficit doesn't matter. You can scream about cutting spending or cutting taxes, but both amount to cutting the economy. The government spends money. It provides a positive input into the economy. Anything it sucks out of businesses it throws right back in to other businesses. So shut up about how the government is screwing you and go make a real difference.
I know none of you will listen and just want to continue to pointlessly argue, but seriously, the economy will keep growing if people stop freaking out about it. The main problem in this country is that things are fine, so we find the stupidest shit to find reasons to argue about.


Yep. Standard Keynesian economics that has reliably worked for decades, but the right wing has convinced a large group of incredibly uneducated, but angry people that the deficit is the most important issue and spending must be slashed. or else. They don't actually believe this, otherwise they wouldn't run against military spending cuts. They hate the cuts because they know how important military spending is to supporting the economy and providing a cascade of employment. Republicans are textbook Keynesians when it comes to defense spending,


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: koods] * 1
    #17489841 -

koods said:
Yep. Standard Keynesian economics that has reliably worked for decades, but the right wing has convinced a large group of incredibly uneducated, but angry people that the deficit is the most important issue and spending must be slashed. or else. They don't actually believe this, otherwise they wouldn't run against military spending cuts. They hate the cuts because they know how important military spending is to supporting the economy and providing a cascade of employment. Republicans are textbook Keynesians when it comes to defense spending,




"reliably worked" is highly debatable.

I totally agree with you about republicans being keynsians though.

instead of me talking about why keynsian economics doesnt work and is a banker entrapment scam for the millionth time how about we instead watch this:

"Fear the Boom and Bust" a Hayek vs. Keynes Rap Anthem


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Great Job By Congress and Obama on The Fiscal Cliff [Re: Shins]
    #17489845 -

We’ve been going back and forth for a century
[Keynes] I want to steer markets,
[Hayek] I want them set free
There’s a boom and bust cycle and good reason to fear it
[Hayek] Blame low interest rates.
[Keynes] No… it’s the animal spirits
[Keynes Sings:]

John Maynard Keynes, wrote the book on modern macro
The man you need when the economy’s off track, [whoa]
Depression, recession now your question’s in session
Have a seat and I’ll school you in one simple lesson

BOOM, 1929 the big crash
We didn’t bounce back—economy’s in the trash
Persistent unemployment, the result of sticky wages
Waiting for recovery? Seriously? That’s outrageous!

I had a real plan any fool can understand
The advice, real simple—boost aggregate demand!
C, I, G, all together gets to Y
Make sure the total’s growing, watch the economy fly

We’ve been going back and forth for a century
[Keynes] I want to steer markets,
[Hayek] I want them set free
There’s a boom and bust cycle and good reason to fear it
[Hayek] Blame low interest rates.
[Keynes] No… it’s the animal spirits

You see it’s all about spending, hear the register cha-ching
Circular flow, the dough is everything
So if that flow is getting low, doesn’t matter the reason
We need more government spending, now it’s stimulus season

So forget about saving, get it straight out of your head
Like I said, in the long run—we’re all dead
Savings is destruction, that’s the paradox of thrift
Don’t keep money in your pocket, or that growth will never lift…

because…

Business is driven by the animal spirits
The bull and the bear, and there’s reason to fear its
Effects on capital investment, income and growth
That’s why the state should fill the gap with stimulus both…

The monetary and the fiscal, they’re equally correct
Public works, digging ditches, war has the same effect
Even a broken window helps the glass man have some wealth
The multiplier driving higher the economy’s health

And if the Central Bank’s interest rate policy tanks
A liquidity trap, that new money’s stuck in the banks!
Deficits could be the cure, you been looking for
Let the spending soar, now that you know the score

My General Theory’s made quite an impression
[a revolution] I transformed the econ profession
You know me, modesty, still I’m taking a bow
Say it loud, say it proud, we’re all Keynesians now

We’ve been goin’ back n forth for a century
[Keynes] I want to steer markets,
[Hayek] I want them set free
There’s a boom and bust cycle and good reason to fear it
[Keynes] I made my case, Freddie H
Listen up , Can you hear it?

Hayek sings:

I’ll begin in broad strokes, just like my friend Keynes
His theory conceals the mechanics of change,
That simple equation, too much aggregation
Ignores human action and motivation

And yet it continues as a justification
For bailouts and payoffs by pols with machinations
You provide them with cover to sell us a free lunch
Then all that we’re left with is debt, and a bunch

If you’re living high on that cheap credit hog
Don’t look for cure from the hair of the dog
Real savings come first if you want to invest
The market coordinates time with interest

Your focus on spending is pushing on thread
In the long run, my friend, it’s your theory that’s dead
So sorry there, buddy, if that sounds like invective
Prepare to get schooled in my Austrian perspective

We’ve been going back and forth for a century
[Keynes] I want to steer markets,
[Hayek] I want them set free
There’s a boom and bust cycle and good reason to fear it
[Hayek] Blame low interest rates.
[Keynes] No… it’s the animal spirits

The place you should study isn’t the bust
It’s the boom that should make you feel leery, that’s the thrust
Of my theory, the capital structure is key.
Malinvestments wreck the economy

The boom gets started with an expansion of credit
The Fed sets rates low, are you starting to get it?
That new money is confused for real loanable funds
But it’s just inflation that’s driving the ones

Who invest in new projects like housing construction
The boom plants the seeds for its future destruction
The savings aren’t real, consumption’s up too
And the grasping for resources reveals there’s too few

So the boom turns to bust as the interest rates rise
With the costs of production, price signals were lies
The boom was a binge that’s a matter of fact
Now its devalued capital that makes up the slack.

Whether it’s the late twenties or two thousand and five
Booming bad investments, seems like they’d thrive
You must save to invest, don’t use the printing press
Or a bust will surely follow, an economy depressed

Your so-called “stimulus” will make things even worse
It’s just more of the same, more incentives perversed
And that credit crunch ain’t a liquidity trap
Just a broke banking system, I’m done, that’s a wrap.

We’ve been goin’ back n forth for a century
[Keynes] I want to steer markets,
[Hayek] I want them set free
There’s a boom and bust cycle and good reason to fear it
[Hayek] Blame low interest rates.
[Keynes] No it’s the animal spirits

“The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.”

John Maynard Keynes
The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money

“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.”

F A Hayek
The Fatal Conceit


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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