| Home | Community | Message Board |
|
You are not signed in. Sign In New Account | Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery » |
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
NextShop:  North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies  Bulk Cannabis Seeds  APE Liquid Culture For Sale  Spores for European Microscopy  Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order |
| |||||||
 Cognitive_Shift CS actual     Registered: 12/11/07 Posts: 29,646 |
| ||||||
|
I see the world differently. I don't see humanity as this super intelligent wonderful work of nature. I see it as a cancer destroying what was once beautiful. In fact if 75% of the planet were wiped out by some illness then it could be possible to restoring the planet to a beautiful place. I'm different, so therefor there is something wrong with my right? I'm different because i don't think what we are doing is okay. I'm different because i think mankind is a pathetic arrogant evolved primate... who acts just as primates do. They call me depressed.
When i look at humanity i see one big collection of people taking advantage of one another so they can get money to survive. Then they take advantage of people to make money to get what they need to be comfortable, then they take advantage of people so they can get more money and buy a bunch of shit they don't need. Then they take advantage of people just because they can. People do things because it benefits them. They get into a relationship with another person not because they love that person but because they love the feeling of being wanted by that person. People don't like me because i'm funny, they like the feeling my humor makes them feel so on and so fourth. My friends don't actually give a fuck about me, they give a fuck about feeling accepted as part of the group. People don't actually give a fuck about anything except themselves, and what they can do for themselves. Whether they are conscious of it or not, that is how i see people and their motivations. Secondly non-depressed people live in this "everything is hunky dory" delusion. There is this cultural delusion that everything is hunky dory, and to constantly be sad about the state of humanity and your life there must be something wrong with you because what we're doing is good. We are making 3% of the population rich, successful and happy, and driving the other 97% into even harder times. People are raping and pillaging our natural resources not because they care about you, but because they care about making money. People don't give a fuck about you, they don't love you... unless you can do something for them. Everything is not hunky dory, in fact our leaders are making our lives worse, making us more unhappy. Why should they give a fuck about me anyways as long as their making money. I don't think i'm depressed, i simply think i'm not delusional about the grand scheme of things. A pack of wolves must work together in order to hunt prey. Now these wolves don't actually care about one another they simply need each other. If one gets sick or injured or dies they just leave him behind. When they work together and get a meal, they need each other to survive... that is the only reason they care about a member of their pack. I'm depressed because people don't like each other because of who they are, they like people for what that person can do for them. It's a very primitive culture... and it's going no where. The future is bleak.... Now what the fuck is there NOT to be depressed about? -------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
| |||||||
|
Rahz Alive Again   Registered: 11/11/05 Posts: 11,430 |
| ||||||
|
So what's the problem?
 Life is not worth being depressed about. It's self serving behaviour, same as how you describe the world. -------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace I am I feel I do I love I speak I see I know To shrink a person's vocabulary is to shrink their capacity to think.
| |||||||
|
Cognitive_Shift CS actual Registered: 12/11/07 Posts: 29,646 |
| ||||||
|
Because when i see those happy go lucky people that actually think they can make a difference in this world i want to punch them and tell them. "What you do doesn't fucking matter, we are all fucked, stop trying to pretend we can fix this place"
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
| |||||||
jbnz   Registered: 05/06/11 Posts: 112 Loc: NZ |
| ||||||
|
Sounds like you're quite rational actually. I hold a similar sentiment with regards to the fact we just pillage and rape the natural resources of the world. However, I guess I'm part of the problem too as I like my creature comforts as much as the next person. Nobody wants to take a step-down in terms of 'standards of living'.
Humans are simply doing what all organic life does - harness resources (energy) to grow our biomass. It's a shame that it's happening at the expense of all other creatures but I guess that's what we are programmed to do. Boom and bust is commonplace in nature. Ultimately I think human numbers will reduce as resource depletion, overpopulation, ecosystem collapse and climate change all hit us throughout the next century. The bulk of scientific evidence certainly support this as a likely outcome. In the end the best thing you can do for your own sanity is make peace with things and just try and accept things. Now that's not to say don't try and make a difference, do try! But don't get too hung up on things, in the end we are just a monkey (ape) after-all.  Party on! 
--------------------   
| |||||||
|
cez Registered: 08/04/09 Posts: 5,856 |
| ||||||
If everybody stuck to this logic, we would be fucked exponentially faster than the rate we are currently approaching to be fucked....  Regarding your OP, I agree with a lot of what you say, although it is framed to make everyone seem villainous which isn't the case. There are good people out there, it's just that most of the power resides with bad people.. Edited by cez (12/31/12 04:40 AM)
| |||||||
 circastes Big Questions Small Head  Registered: 01/14/10 Posts: 8,781 Loc: straya 
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months |
| ||||||
|
All of what you are experiencing is an intelligence test. When something is wrong and it comes from your intellect, there is a puzzle between the lines.
If you want a hint, you suffer from an inferiority complex ultimately derived from extreme sensitivity (an excellent trait). The world is fine. Only psyche exists. These monoliths of greed and exploitation called cities are made of the most prized elements that shine and shimmer. The only thing keeping things in an unfair political state is the psyche of man, which is rational and disconnected from the psyche of Nature. Underneath the rational, step-by-step, almost retarded modern mind is a system of true benevolence and support for mankind and its aims. Nature is a mind. If it appears violent or against you, seek your own motives and see it is reflecting your inner state. Weak animals in herds are actually attacking the herd. The herd is innocent. -------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
| |||||||
|
zzripz Stranger  Registered: 12/23/08 Posts: 8,292 Loc: Manchester, UK Last seen: 7 years, 4 months |
| ||||||
|
Listening to you I see a danger if you falling into a pit of bitterness and nihilism which will make you more and more ugly, humourless--your face will change into a mask of how you feel seeing no good in anything, hence I will offer some advice.
YES I know exactly what you mean about the fukers--the control freaks creating massive devastation of planet Earth, its species, and other humans, mainly of darker skin tone but also poor white people, and now the so-called middle classes are coming under attack also. But it is not ALL humans. Please remember that the main victims of the mindsets which are utterly cut off from nature and selfish were and still are indigenous peoples. Peoples who weren't perfect (there is no such thing) but knew that land and other species and community had to be respected, because it was all sacred. THAT has been lost. Many of us come into this world and are raised to not feel a part of nature. Have a serious think about this. Instead of berating ALL humans--even the natural act of falling in love and friendship. Think about what enforced schooling does to the kids mind, and what mass media does, and stuff that is imposed on us from authority. For example--a very big one--you use the term "depressed". This term is considered by this culture to be a disease--a biological disease, and they will push drugs on you to 'treat it'. This is the mental illness myth, and is the central social controlling myths of these times (prior to this it was traditional religious myth). So to see through that myth is VERY important. It is designed to let the oppression we are under to get off the hook! it is saying eg 'your depressed? This of course is your fault' its your genes, your nature, we can fix it--or maintain a dead state so you can continue to be a consumer and produce. There is no such think as total non-selfishness, nor total selfishness. Selfish and non-selfish or altruism are embedded in each other. A dynamic. Understand? Dont say yes if you dont. So say you fall for someone. of course you are attracted to their physical form, their smell, they make you feel goo. You to them too. When you get together there is a dynamic continuum of selfishness desire and also non-selfish giving. You cannot pretend that you can never be self-ish or they can. That is absurd. It is like these religions and cults that calim you can be totally pure. meanwhile they fukin fleece you and abuse you. There is a lot of hypocrisy in these ideals. SEEING through that does not mean you become some doom laden person who sees ALL humanity as a cancer. Rather you see to the roots. That is its those who HAVE the worldview they are better and superior than others, and nature, who are the very ones causing this oppression and destruction! You SEE that, you dont want that worldview and so seeing through it allows you to undermine it. Edited by zzripz (12/31/12 05:12 AM)
| |||||||
liquidlounge  Registered: 12/22/10 Posts: 9,256 |
| ||||||
Thats how we drive each other, whats the issue with that? If you cant give, you cant really expect to get, you're in the exact mindset as these 3% you're talking about (if you think deeply about it you will see this) - this is why our world looks like it look. Only these 3% are far more intelligent human beings than you, hence you're not "up there". 96% are sheeps. 1% see some sort of a picture.  Wild % but there is something in it. -------------------- As far as I assume to know... Edited by liquidlounge (12/31/12 08:55 AM)
| |||||||
|
LunarEclipse Enlil's Official Story  Registered: 10/31/04 Posts: 21,407 Loc: Building 7 |
| ||||||
Fucking A! No offense, I really do love all your posts but frankly you ramble on about a lot of cheese. But now, you have actually hit on something. Weak animals in herds are actually attacking the herd. The herd is innocent. Fuck me. It's beautiful. It's not our fault that nerd was weak and smarter than us so we had to be the bully jocks. We be innocent we be jocks we be popular that nerd deserved to get beat up he was making our school look bad anyway. Plus it's FUN! Well personally I think the OP is fully rational and aware and without your psychobabble diagnosis of inferiority complex and extreme sensitivity. You know how I feel about your profession so stop diagnosing people like that. All that boxing shit. ADD ADHD SAD just stop it! The crazy really cruel ones are the psycho doctors so put that one in your book. People with a big support "system" with the wife kids friends and lots of help and love if they need it always put down anyone who is bummed cause they see how cold cruel and really mean those people with a lot of love and the pretty or even not so pretty wife can be. Just mean. But always with a smile or a sneer just like the jock when he beats up the nerd. Then walk off like well that sad loser deserved it. Edited by LunarEclipse (12/31/12 10:11 AM)
| |||||||
|
Rahz Alive Again Registered: 11/11/05 Posts: 11,430 |
| ||||||
Why... because you want to make a difference in their world? Or maybe you're just being reactionary like most everyone else? The whole depressed, the world sucks bit is a classic "The world is your mirror" syndrome. So because the world's got problems you're going to be depressed, think about punching people in the face because they are being the humans that they are, bitch about it, and maybe feel sorry for yourself? Typical human behaviour is typical? Yours or theirs? I mean, I understand. I feel that way myself sometimes. You have my sympathy as a matter of principal, but what good does that do you? Life doesn't make sense so there's no logical reason to be depressed unless of course you just want to be depressed. Such an admission could be a starting point. The inner landscape takes some finesse, patience and understanding. Every moment is yours. How will you spend it? -------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace I am I feel I do I love I speak I see I know To shrink a person's vocabulary is to shrink their capacity to think.
| |||||||
|
Icelander The Minstrel in the Gallery  Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
| ||||||
Just a few years ago I would have been in total agreement with you. I figured there was the few us and the many them. I thought we were self made in this way. I'm not so sure now. Given slightly different circumstances I would easily be one of them. In fact I often act like them in little things day to day. I'm wondering now is if the sensitive ones (could be read as weak), knowing they could not compete on a physical level with the meat heads (thems) did not make being sensitive into a special condition of merit so as to make the thems feel inadequate in some major way so the us guys could compete and maybe win some status. Of course it doesn't really fully work. The trouble is there is no victories only ongoing battles and so it's easy to get depressed when we can't achieve our personal goals. And there's likely many more factors I'm not aware of going on. Now I try to make the best of things and I try not to make any judgements about them and us. We tend to get mad when someone threatens us. We feel it's wrong. But if a mountain lion or grizzly bear was about to get bad ass on you, you'd likely never think of getting mad or upset or depressed about their nature or what they do. You'd just struggle to get out of their grasp. That's what I try to do now. It actually works much better for me this way. There is no them or us. There is just a predator prey natural world were we are all trying to survive. And we all play both parts to some degree. But in the end we won't survive, any of us. So imo it's best to make the most of what is happening. -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
| |||||||
|
Ped Interested In Your Brain   Registered: 08/31/99 Posts: 5,494 Loc: Canada Last seen: 9 years, 10 months |
| ||||||
Auto-SummaryThis forum post critiques a statement that attributes depression to self-serving behavior, arguing that such a perspective is unqualified and dismissive of the lived experience of depression. The author emphasizes that depression is a genuine, natural aspect of human sensitivity, not a mental distortion or a result of denial. They highlight Cognitive_Shift's (CS) observations as objective and valid, given his empathetic and caring nature. The post encourages CS to recognize his own goodness and resilience, suggesting that his suffering is evidence of his virtuous nature. Ultimately, it posits that acknowledging the depth of despair can lead to profound spiritual insight and healing, portraying despair as a testament to human virtue amidst a flawed world. >> It's self serving behaviour, same as how you describe the world. This is the sort of statement that comes from people who have no experience with depression, or are in a bound state of powerful denial about their own depression. Such people are either extremely fortunate as to not suffer spiritually with depression in the way such people actually do, or they are extremely unfortunate in that they are very far away from coming to terms with it. I sincerely hope this statement comes from the former category. Depression is painful; it is not something people inflict on themselves absent of some tangible schism. To declare it as self-serving behaviour is like telling a lesbian she's just going through an experimental phase. It is an arbitrary assessment of the depth of someone else's felt experience. Our assessment may or may not be true, but either way it's not an assessment we're qualified to make, as we ourself cannot be the occupant of another person's subjective experience. In contrast, Cognitive_Shift is an occupant of the human experience, and as such he is qualified to come upon objective observations about that experience. The observations he has made are legitimate, his opinions valid. Our civilization is stratified, pyramidal, and exploitative, and our species' relationship with the planet is parasitic, bearing many of the same characteristics as a disease process. Such observations are supported by evidence, and therefore qualify as objective. Some people are especially sensitive to these realities. For such people, depression is not a property of some mental distortion, nor is an improper focus a prerequisite for their mood to be affected by what they see. The phenomenon of depression for them is in fact a function of their sensitivity, it is as natural to them as the phenomenon of climate change. It is not optional; there is no off switch; it simply happens as a consequence of coalescent conditions. It is an inescapable reality. Realizing this is not a cop-out, nor does it constitute giving up or caving in. In fact, it's just the opposite. It takes a great deal of courage to be still with such a pain-filled truth. This is just the tip of what is actually an iceberg of virtue, it's true berth hidden beneath the turbulence of deep spiritual waters. If we accept that CS comes by his feelings honestly (it makes sense to accept this until there is evidence to the contrary), he would not be feeling the way he does if he were not a good-hearted, empathetic, caring human being. If he did not bear these traits earnestly, he would not have cause to feel so alienated. If it were not for his capacity to bear witness to that tranquility which is so wondrous, and of such profound, shatteringly beautiful depth, he would not have the sensation that something is amiss, nor he would be able to recognize and be horrified by brutality and chaos. There would be no reason to cry out. And so it is in fact the very tragedy of this human world which informs him of his own good nature, and consequently awakens him, you, and all of us to the mere existence of such irrevocable benevolence. Cognitive_Shift, consider this carefully. Let these words penetrate your understandable anger and frustration. You are living proof of the human capacity for seraphic ardor. You yourself are the evidence. It doesn't get any more conclusive than that, my friend. Find your solace there. Take refuge in it. Give yourself permission to pause from attending to the world, and devote your entire perceptive faculty to the magnificent, blameless, truthful benevolence that is you. Its brilliance is like the sound of an exquisite bell. Let it permeate everywhere. And then brace yourself, because the anguish of the world will again overwhelm you with its howl. But this time, its duration and severity will be slightly less, and each time thereafter your resilience will become slightly more. And then suddenly you'll find yourself helping to heal the world that has shattered you so, having lived up to your own chosen pseudonym. Sometimes, people flounder in dismay about the human condition because it confers upon them an exaggerated sense of their own nobility. Seen insincerely like that, it appears as though they're merely compensating for low self-esteem. Even if this is the case, it is entirely irrelevant, because such low self-esteem is only the inverse of this same felt chasm between oneself and the identifiable hostilities found within the surrounding world. This forces us into the same conclusion: that the felt condition of despair is itself evidence of indestructible virtue. Whereupon a person wholly comes to terms with their poisoned state of despair, it is the recognition of this indestructible virtue that is antidotal and naturally arising. The eye that sees the light is blinded by it: there arises darkness. The heart that feels the bliss is crushed beneath it: there arises sorrow. By the same, within interminable darkness all things are actualized, and through sorrow all bliss thus eternally so. The world we inhabit is one rotating whole, dawning in perpetual glory as it is relentlessly plunged into never-ending darkness: this is as true spiritually as it is physically. Edited by Ped (12/31/12 12:40 PM)
| |||||||
|
Spacerific - - - >  Registered: 10/13/12 Posts: 4,923 Last seen: 11 years, 6 months |
| ||||||
|
Choice theory Axiom #9 (...) I am choosing to depress or I am depressing (myself) instead of I am suffering from a depression or I am depressed.
Beauty or lack thereof is solely in the eye of the beholder. From what I read, seems to me like you've let your brain chemistry slide on the lonely / sad side, or don't know that well how to keep it rolling and thriving in the first place. Which is OK, we're all learning here. Are you getting enough sex? Tactile skin-on-skin contact? Are you kissing enough, people you like and enjoy I mean? Are you working out, moving those muscles like they were designed to? Are you dancing in large groups, letting the bass hit you good? Do you get enough fresh air and sunlight? Enough clean water? Do you sleep enough at night? Do you eat fresh awesome food, and detox every now and then in some way? See sweating and working out, above. Have you seen this video? Happy people have very good reasons to be happy. Though all our flesh bodies will disintegrate in a few decades and we'll fly away to unknown realms, for now we're all here, happily kissing, licking, eating, drinking, making love, dancing, enjoying friendship, mushrooms and French cheese with all manner of pasta and greens and bread products with sesame. The fluffiness of our favorite dogs and cats and the weirdness of our lizards, tarantulas, talking parrots and so on, is quite a good reason to get up in the morning and do some things. The only real philosophical question is whether or not to commit suicide. If you truly think there's nothing to live for, show some balls and investigate that option. Though I suspect if you do at least half the things mentioned in this post, and do them right, you'll have a blast and look back on this thread as a few moments of confusion. Have you ever shroomed or dropped acid at the main stage of a psy festival? Do that a few times and then tell me life is not worth living You are not depressed. You are choosing to depress, and it's a fine choice with the choices you've been given at the time. Now you have more. Join us and thrive! 
| |||||||
|
Rahz Alive Again Registered: 11/11/05 Posts: 11,430 |
| ||||||
Right back at you bud. The simple fact is that all behaviour is self serving. It's nothing like telling a lesbian it's a phase, not is it arbitrary, and of course depression is painful. It has nothing to do with whether CS is choosing to be depressed, but what view or lense he chooses to see that depression if there is any difference to be made. Our messages aren't that different, so I would suggest you examine what I said in it's proper context. Feel free to handle people with kid gloves and not point out their inconsistencies in fear of being misunderstood or upsetting them, coddling their ego as if it were some kind of golden egg. I have no desire to be harsh (nor do I think my message has been, you see what you want to see) but I call it the way I see it. -------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace I am I feel I do I love I speak I see I know To shrink a person's vocabulary is to shrink their capacity to think.
| |||||||
|
Ped Interested In Your Brain Registered: 08/31/99 Posts: 5,494 Loc: Canada Last seen: 9 years, 10 months |
| ||||||
|
>> Happy people have very good reasons to be happy. Though all our flesh bodies will disintegrate in a few decades and we'll fly away to unknown realms, for now we're all here, happily kissing, licking, eating, drinking, making love, dancing, enjoying friendship, mushrooms and French cheese with all manner of pasta and greens and bread products with sesame. The fluffiness of our favorite dogs and cats and the weirdness of our lizards, tarantulas, talking parrots and so on, is quite a good reason to get up in the morning and do some things.
This is all well and good, and if this is functioning for you then that is perfectly valid. If this closes the loop for you and completes your happiness circuit, shine on. There are a good number of people who are significantly more complicated than this, however - irrespective of axiom #9. Now, please don't misunderstand: simplicity and complication are not matters of inferiority or superiority, they are only matters of modality. Particularly unhelpful to people who exist alongside the kind of depression C_S appears to be describing are people who recite a list of life's most basic needs and pleasures and insist that this is sufficient to carry on gleefully. >> You are not depressed. You are choosing to depress. This may be the case, but I think it is more likely that this is not the case. However, there is overlap between these two apparently contradictory stances. For example, I do not know your first name. There has been no choice to not-know your first name; that is a condition arising from circumstances which I did not participate in creating. However, it is within my power to end this not-knowing by asking you for your first name. Depression is like this more often than not, except that the transition out will be of proportional depth and complexity to the person undergoing the experience, and the solution therefore much more obscure.
| |||||||
|
Cognitive_Shift CS actual Registered: 12/11/07 Posts: 29,646 |
| ||||||
|
I don't want to commit suicide. I just wish I could believe in all the delusions happy people do. I wish I could believe everything is okay.
-------------------- L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
| |||||||
Kickle Wanderer  Registered: 12/16/06 Posts: 19,554 Last seen: 2 months, 3 days |
| ||||||
it seems difficult to stop expecting more of ourselves and others. driven to seek perfection and all that. -------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
| |||||||
|
The24HourMC Master Of Ceremonies  Registered: 10/16/09 Posts: 7,704 Loc: Gone Last seen: 11 years, 8 months |
| ||||||
|
I just wanted to say that I feel the exact same way as op. At times I am sad , because I just can't understand why its like that. I can't be the only person who cares.
| |||||||
|
Icelander The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
| ||||||
|
Have you ever shroomed or dropped acid at the main stage of a psy festival? Do that a few times and then tell me life is not worth living
I have many times. At Burning Man three times and many others since the late 60s. I'm still depressed much of the time. Now what? -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
| |||||||
|
Icelander The Minstrel in the Gallery Registered: 03/15/05 Posts: 95,368 Loc: underbelly |
| ||||||
You aren't. I'm there too. As the Holy Model Rounders said. " Don't seem right, It don't seem right to me Well it don't seem right but that's how it's got to be" http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/hol -------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
| |||||||
| |||||||
Edit 
Reply 
| Shop: North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies Bulk Cannabis Seeds APE Liquid Culture For Sale Spores for European Microscopy Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order |
|
| Similar Threads | Poster | Views | Replies | Last post | ||
 |
 |
Ayahuasca.. the ultimate placebo |  Mixomatosis |
2,288 | 14 | 01/05/04 04:25 AM by Shroomism |
|
|
"THE DRINKERS" - Ayahuasca Interview Series |  Natura |
1,893 | 9 | 07/26/03 06:47 PM by fireworks_god |
|
 |
Hogwash and the Ayahuasca Forum (  1 2 3 all ) |
 OrgoneConclusion |
3,258 | 45 | 03/20/09 11:10 AM by Icelander |
|
|
Santo Daime ayahuasca ritual |  paddo |
1,251 | 8 | 08/13/02 01:28 PM by RebelSteve33 |
|
 |
Uniao de Vegetal Wins Ayahuasca Case |  Swami |
776 | 4 | 08/26/02 06:47 AM by postalboy |
|
 |
Tiger Man: Ayahuasca Shape-Shifting ( 1 2 all ) |
Swami |
5,940 | 22 | 08/12/10 10:28 PM by Icelander |
|
|
Ayahuasca superior to mushrooms? Plant-spirits? ( 1 2 3 all ) |
 shivak |
4,955 | 49 | 07/31/08 11:27 PM by c0sm0nautt |
|
 |
Ayahuasca and Jungle Visions ( 1 2 3 all ) |
Swami |
3,328 | 41 | 04/26/04 04:20 AM by Strumpling |
| Extra information | ||
| You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum 14,686 topic views. 0 members, 32 guests and 55 web crawlers are browsing this forum. [ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ] | ||