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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: psi]
    #17423210 -

>> Which differences are you referring to specifically? As far as I knew the differences were just in the ring structures.

The methylenedioxy group is the most noteworthy difference and is responsible for most (if not all) of the qualitative differences in subjective effects between the two molecules. 

Returning to chem-compare:



This is sort of like one of those "spot the differences" games.  If you flash your eyes back and forth, you will see subtle difference which are not at first readily apparent.  Describing these differences pushes the boundaries of my fluency in chemistry, but I think the descriptors below are correct.

With respect to the amine, the CH3 group and its neighbouring hydrogen are oriented differently on the secondary carbon bond, and bear asymmetrical relationship in the case of methamphetamine.  Also, the NH bond is inverted between the two molecules.  These may seem like inconsequential differences, and they may indeed actually be inconsequential, but it is a principle of organic chemistry that even the most subtle structural difference is worthy of consideration.

MSU has a marvellous organic chemistry textbook available freely on its website.  It contains this little gem:

"The ability to distinguish structural differences of this kind is an essential part of mastering organic chemistry. It will come with practice and experience."  This fires my dreams and makes me want to go back to school.  Then I think about the crushing mountain of student loans that would necessarily entail, and curse our capitalist system, which has converted institutions of higher education into debt-run porn factories where opportunity is monopolized by the ultra rich.

I'm not a college level grad of any chemistry program -  in fact, I left high school early in grade 10 and never went back.  This online textbook, however, is a pass-time of mine on wet afternoons.  If there are any chem students floating around who might be able to clarify my interpretation, or even better - describe what impacts these structural differences have on qualitative effects, I would be superbly tickled to hear of them.

Edited by Ped (12/20/12 05:03 PM)

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: Ped]
    #17423420 -

So you're saying the presence of the methylenedioxy ring affects the bond angles elsewhere in the molecule? That seems plausible. My background in chemistry is pretty similar, did some of it in school but I mostly just read up on it on my own.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: Ped]
    #17423429 -

Ped said:
MSU has a marvellous organic chemistry textbook available freely on its website.


Thanks for all your wonderful posts.

I reccomend ripping resources like this using ripping tools, such as HTTrack (websites) and Jaksta Streaming Media Recorder (videos), http://youtu.be/ZscWFgm3lUE (instructions for Scribd) and the Firefox extension, Adblock Plus (can be used for ripping things like pages from Google Books). And of course File, Save As.. for individual web pages. Jaksta is shareware, but I was able to get it free using http://www.sharaget.com/


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

Edited by s240779 (12/20/12 05:41 PM)

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: psi]
    #17423543 -

>> So you're saying the presence of the methylenedioxy ring affects the bond angles elsewhere in the molecule?

Not so much that the presence of the ring affects bond angles, moreso that these differences do exist.  However, I agree with your deduction.  Chemistry is necessarily a holistic exercise, as the stability of a given molecule is a function of the relationships between atomic forces.  This would explain why bond angles vary between substitutions.  A cursory glance at the phenethylamine class provides fascinating insight into this.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: Ped]
    #17515780 -

By the way, this looks like an excellent resource as well (includes instructional videos): http://pharmlabs.unc.edu


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

Edited by s240779 (02/05/13 02:38 PM)

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: s240779]
    #17515807 -

this is like comparing amphetamine to methylphenidate. :facepalm:

they're just different chemicals. a simple google search would show you this.


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No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind.
[url=
]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]
Are you lost?

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: s240779]
    #17749516 -

240779 said:
By the way, this looks like an excellent resource as well (includes instructional videos): http://pharmlabs.unc.edu/labs/emulsions


don't have access to this link, says I dont have permission any adivce how to vue it??


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:mushroom2: When I am TRIPPING I find it hard to type properlyyyyn;oiuhnsdav:mushroom2:

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: daz01]
    #17800725 -

>> methamphatmine = ice, crack.

Just thought I'd clear this one up, since it went largely unaddressed.

A slang term for methamphetamine is "ice", but "crack" is not.  "Crack" refers to freebase cocaine.  Both methamphetamine and freebase cocaine come in "rock" form, which is a way of describing large, solid crystals.  In the case of methamphetamine, larger rock-like crystals is typically an indicator of the quality of the synthesis.

Cocaine powder comes as a hydrochloride salt, called cocaine hydrochloride or cocaine HCl.  The hydrochloride group facilitates absorption of the drug through mucous membranes like the nose or gums, but renders it unstable in the presence of heat.  This is why you do not smoke cocaine hydrochloride powder.  A freebased product is one which is absent of this hydrochloride group.  Freebase cocaine, or "crack", comes as a crystallized substance which is more stable when exposed to heat, thus rendering it deliverable by way of vaporization.

Unsophisticated syntheses of methamphetamine often yield a cloudy, near-opaque crystalline product which can resemble freebase cocaine to the untrained eye.  In the case of methamphetamine, the clearer the product, the purer the synthesis.  Cloudy product ranges from 50-70% pure, while a transparent product is more likely to be nearer the 90% purity range or higher.

The "blue meth" seen on Breaking Bad is entirely a product of Vince Gilligan's imagination.  While it's true that the methylamine precursor Walt & Jesse use yields a higher quality product, chemically speaking there's no reason why any methamphetamine synthesis should yield a product with a blue tint.  With that said, there have been reports of "blue meth" appearing in the United States since the show first exhibited the fictional product (which is actually a dyed rock candy) toward the end of season 1.  It's been speculated that the blue colour is due to the presence of a pigmentation, which can confuse field tests for the product, since the law-enforcement reagent yields a blue tint as an indicator for the presence of meth.  It may also be that the chemist is attempting to emulate the popularity and branding value of Breaking Bad's fictional product.


>> this is like comparing amphetamine to methylphenidate

Well, not exactly.  The comparison between amphetamine and methylphenidate begins and ends with subjective effects, namely stimulation and some euphoria.  The comparison between methamphetamine and MDMA (Ecstasy), however, has to do with the structure of either molecule, where there are numerous parallels.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

Edited by Ped (02/14/13 12:22 PM)

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