Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |  [ show all ]
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: Z O M G]
    #17313683 -

Z O M G said:
imachavel said:
I fucking love punk rock. Youd prefer mass media fronted music? I dont even know what song youd compare that to


uhh no. i was trying to say that libertarians have a concrete movement while the democrats are saturated with no substance; like cotton candy. It may look good and smell good, but in actuality there's just nothing there.
sorry if my analogy made it seem like i was pro democrat. i was trying to make the opposite.


I agree damn shame so many people my age will happily take the democratic dick up there ass.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #17313790 -

Gilgamesh18 said:
Z O M G said:
imachavel said:
I fucking love punk rock. Youd prefer mass media fronted music? I dont even know what song youd compare that to


uhh no. i was trying to say that libertarians have a concrete movement while the democrats are saturated with no substance; like cotton candy. It may look good and smell good, but in actuality there's just nothing there.
sorry if my analogy made it seem like i was pro democrat. i was trying to make the opposite.


I agree damn shame so many people my age will happily take the democratic dick up there ass.


yea, same here.
sadly its all media(and all the idiots who watch to feed their low self esteem and political ego). What can the government do for you...let us pay your rent, your bills, your schooling , your phone bill, everything. WE GOT THIS. just sit back and enjoy the ride. :nocomment:
people are so fucking brainwashed these days that the government is the golden brick road of life and yet sadly not realizing that the golden brick road leads straight to Auschwitz.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: Z O M G]
    #17313839 -

Damn straight Zomg


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: Z O M G]
    #17314724 -

Z O M G said:
Gilgamesh18 said:
Z O M G said:
imachavel said:
I fucking love punk rock. Youd prefer mass media fronted music? I dont even know what song youd compare that to


uhh no. i was trying to say that libertarians have a concrete movement while the democrats are saturated with no substance; like cotton candy. It may look good and smell good, but in actuality there's just nothing there.
sorry if my analogy made it seem like i was pro democrat. i was trying to make the opposite.


I agree damn shame so many people my age will happily take the democratic dick up there ass.


yea, same here.
sadly its all media(and all the idiots who watch to feed their low self esteem and political ego). What can the government do for you...let us pay your rent, your bills, your schooling , your phone bill, everything. WE GOT THIS. just sit back and enjoy the ride. :nocomment:
people are so fucking brainwashed these days that the government is the golden brick road of life and yet sadly not realizing that the golden brick road leads straight to Auschwitz.


Now if you are mentioning Auschwitz, and Nazis, the white population in the U.S. is about 75%. Dont be fooled the minority populous in large cities. Nationwide our whites greatly out weigh Nazis. Although we may not be as quick to hang jews and blacks as Hitler, Ill bet a large part of our population doesnt oppose military invasion in other countries simply because they think a white race is superior and that its the right thing for whites to clean up these crooked countries as a superior country


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: imachavel]
    #17316949 -

Libertarians are for less government.  Who will fill the power vacuum?  Corporations will.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: joemolloy] * 1
    #17317363 -

joemolloy said:
Libertarians are for less government.  Who will fill the power vacuum?  Corporations will.


I'm OK with that.  Corporations don't have the legal right to use violence against you to effect their will.  The government does.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #17317396 -

yeah... corporations are actually extremely accountable to their customers when they aren't getting government handouts.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: Shins] * 1
    #17317421 -

Corporate crime and corruption in the name of profit inspires less hope in me than democratically elected representatives.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: joemolloy]
    #17317471 -

joemolloy said:
Corporate crime and corruption in the name of profit inspires less hope in me than democratically elected representatives.



1. libertarians generally support laws concerning fraud and force.

2. what crime and corruption are you talking about exactly?

practially the only crime and corruption corporations do that i can think of involve the using government.

3. you do realize that the government is bought out by corporations anyways right?  the government allows them higher levels of corruption.

4. democratically elected?  you're kidding right?


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: joemolloy]
    #17317533 -

Libertarianism as a philosophy is fine. It makes perfect sense if we lived at the beginning of civilization, just like Communism. The problem arises when we try to implement objective philosophies in a subjective world.

It can't be done in a way that will ever make the majority happy, and as long as outdated, vacuum-packed philosophers or economic idealists think they've got the answer, the problems in society will continue.

We chronically look backwards to ideas that would've worked well, if only human existence hadn't gone the way it did, but it has, and nothing's going to change that.

The only thing that might work is a re-set, and that isn't likely without large-scale population reduction which encompasses all classes. It's not something that I want to happen, and the efforts of elitist pricks to manufacture a class-specific depopulation program will only perpetuate the problem.

The only scenario that will create meaningful change is one where we realize we've all been stupid for millennia, we watch the systems of hierarchy and control die, and we start fresh with compassion and value eachother for the miracles we are.

I don't see that happening easily.

Good luck, y'all.


--------------------
In their daily life, all are braver than they know...
-Henry David Thoreau

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: Shins] * 1
    #17317560 -

1.  Libertarians seek to do away with governmental regulatory agencies that police corporations.
2.  Corporate crimes: environmental, health and safety, economic, fraud, anti-trust, and on and on.  We're all victims even though the evening news prefers to focus on street crime.
3.  Yes, but libertarians would hand the every puppet string to them.

It's the ideology of the landed gentry and noblemen.  And pot-heads.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: blueIdevil]
    #17317575 -

I have no idea what you were trying to say.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: joemolloy]
    #17317615 -

joemolloy said:
1.  Libertarians seek to do away with governmental regulatory agencies that police corporations.



Groups of people have all the rights of the individuals which compose those groups.  Libertarians seek to reduce government interference in the harmless interactions and affairs of people.

Quote:
2.  Corporate crimes: environmental, health and safety, economic, fraud, anti-trust, and on and on.  We're all victims even though the evening news prefers to focus on street crime.


The wrongs associated with all of these things are either illegal in a way that libertarians support (fraud, health and safety), more appropriately fall under civil law (health and safety, environmental), or shouldn't even be crimes (anti-trust)...  I'm 100x more a victim of vast numbers of government policies than anything any corporation has ever done.

Quote:
3.  Yes, but libertarians would hand the every puppet string to them.


That's why libertarians favor reducing the power the puppets have in the first place.

Quote:
It's the ideology of the landed gentry and noblemen.  And pot-heads.


And people who aren't assholes thinking they have a right to force other people to comply with their grand plan for society.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: blueIdevil]
    #17317635 -

blueIdevil said:
Libertarianism as a philosophy is fine. It makes perfect sense if we lived at the beginning of civilization, just like Communism. The problem arises when we try to implement objective philosophies in a subjective world.


i dont think "the world" is subjective at all.

People can have subjective opinions which is why it is best not to infringe upon the freedom of others.

if you want a communal services you could sign up for a voluntarily one if communal services are your subjective desire.

people already do that - hudderites, mennonites, omish etc.

libertarianism is all about trying maximize subjective freedom of preference and opinion without infringing on other people's subjective freedom of preference and opinion.

that's what libertarian free markets and rights are all about.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: joemolloy]
    #17317639 -

what I'm trying to say is that we're all doomed to a life of bickering that escalates to warfare on every level unless we all realize that the structures of hierarchy, governance, and value we've embraced since the dawning of the concept of empire are completely the wrong way of doing things. What I'm trying to say is that the only way around generation upon generation of suffering is to redefine the human existence in a completely new and different way, and that I think that's very unlikely without a complete breakdown of the systems and standards we've come to accept as "the way the world works."


--------------------
In their daily life, all are braver than they know...
-Henry David Thoreau

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: Shins]
    #17317647 -

Shins said:
blueIdevil said:
Libertarianism as a philosophy is fine. It makes perfect sense if we lived at the beginning of civilization, just like Communism. The problem arises when we try to implement objective philosophies in a subjective world.


i dont think "the world" is subjective at all.

People can have subjective opinions which is why it is best not to infringe upon the freedom of others.

if you want a communal services you could sign up for a voluntarily one if communal services are your subjective desire.

people already do that - hudderites, mennonites, omish etc.

libertarianism is all about trying maximize subjective freedom of preference and opinion without infringing on other people's subjective freedom of preference and opinion.

that's what libertarian free markets and rights are all about.


this is my case in point.

edit to add:
I don't mean to offend, but I expect to.

framing the debate in historical concepts of reality will continue to cause problems. I'm not advocating for soicialism, libertarianism, or anything else you can define. We've fucked it all up. It's time to start fresh.


--------------------
In their daily life, all are braver than they know...
-Henry David Thoreau

Edited by blueIdevil (12/01/12 11:56 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: joemolloy]
    #17317675 -

joemolloy said:
1.  Libertarians seek to do away with governmental regulatory agencies that police corporations.


and so what?

1. free market feedback and review agencies can do that job.

2. right now the corporations are in charge of the very regulatory bodies that they are supposed to police and often make anti-competative laws to crowd out competition.

Quote:
2.  Corporate crimes: environmental, health and safety, economic, fraud, anti-trust, and on and on.


environmental - propety rights.  if your property is damaged you can sue.

health and safety - if you feel you job is unhealthy or unsafe - quit and work for a company more suited to you, no one is forcing you.

economic - the government is BY FAR the largest tool corporations use for economic corruption.

also how is someone voluntarily buying goods from a corporation corrupt?

fraud - most libertarians think that enforcing fraud laws is one of the few legitimate functions of government.

anti-trust - again, the government and regulatory bodies are the biggest source of anti-competition and monopoly.

in a free market there is almost always someone who will undercut you if you price gouge,  if there is no one who can it means you are providing the public with the best service possible.

Quote:
3.  Yes, but libertarians would hand the every puppet string to them.


huh? i cant understand you...

are you saying libertarians would give puppet strings to corporations?  libertarians want to cut the strings that already exist from the corporations that already own the government.

Quote:
It's the ideology of the landed gentry and noblemen.  And pot-heads.


actually it's a philosophy that arose out of the age of enlightenment.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: blueIdevil]
    #17317678 -

blueIdevil said:
what I'm trying to say is that we're all doomed to a life of bickering that escalates to warfare on every level unless we all realize that the structures of hierarchy, governance, and value we've embraced since the dawning of the concept of empire are completely the wrong way of doing things. What I'm trying to say is that the only way around generation upon generation of suffering is to redefine the human existence in a completely new and different way, and that I think that's very unlikely without a complete breakdown of the systems and standards we've come to accept as "the way the world works."


this is exactly how libertarianism arose.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #17317690 -

Quote:
Groups of people have all the rights of the individuals which compose those groups.  Libertarians seek to reduce government interference in the harmless interactions and affairs of people.


I guess our definitions of harm and harmlessness differ, especially since you think monopolies are good.  Well, they are good, just not for the consumer.

Quote:
The wrongs associated with all of these things are either illegal in a way that libertarians support (fraud, health and safety), more appropriately fall under civil law (health and safety, environmental), or shouldn't even be crimes (anti-trust)...  I'm 100x more a victim of vast numbers of government policies than anything any corporation has ever done.


How would libertarians investigate and enforce laws with a smaller government considering that our current government underfunds corporate and white collar crime investigations?  Without government intrusion would the gas station honestly make sure you get an exact gallon of high octane?  Or a bit less and a bit lower octane even though the pump reads otherwise?  How would this work in a libertarian utopia?  A strong handshake and a hard look in the eye? 

You have your water utility monopoly without government oversight, don't worry about the pollution levels that'll give you cancer in 20 years.  The corporate monopoly will ensure your safety as well as an economical price.  Who needs government when the market is so efficient?

Quote:
That's why libertarians favor reducing the power the puppets have in the first place.


No, they will reduce the power of one group and give it to another.  And this power grab will be official or unofficial, the end is the same.

Quote:
And people who aren't assholes thinking they have a right to force other people to comply with their grand plan for society.


Unfortunately in a society there are laws that compel.  We just disagree whose laws would suck more.


--------------------
Don't PM me with bullshit.  I don't sell or trade cactus and I don't know where you can get any, other than your mother's ass.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I cant stand Libertarians.... [Re: blueIdevil]
    #17317781 -

Shins said:
this is exactly how libertarianism arose.



I could go ahead and write an essay about how the lack of an even starting point basically would create a new form of serfdom in the US and around the world (which is pretty much already happening - read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" and other books by Perkins if you want to see how "Laissez-faire" economics has influenced the world, even before the institution of the WTO, IMF, and World Bank.) I honestly am not up to it right now and others have done it much better than I could.

As I said, I've got nothing against Libertarianism as a philosophy, but it's just not practical or even possible as a way to make the world a better place without destroying all current wealth, military, or resource holdings [edit: before-hand; or if you'd like, ahead of time,]. We've got to go back to the beginnings of civilization to make it viable. Capitalism (even "Anarcho-style") Is only in vogue because its methods are beyond the peon's ability to control, and the rich and influential will continue to be rich and influential under its auspices.


--------------------
In their daily life, all are braver than they know...
-Henry David Thoreau

Edited by blueIdevil (12/02/12 12:31 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* libertarianism
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )		 domite 12,905 131 09/23/03 05:26 PM
by Autonomous
* Positive & Negative Liberties in Three Dimensions lonestar2004 1,188 5 06/20/05 11:32 PM
by Phred
* Questions about libertarians DigitalDuality 1,834 13 09/18/04 07:44 AM
by luvdemshrooms
* Libertarians & Corporations Autonomous 787 6 05/11/05 12:38 PM
by Autonomous
* Minimum Wage Revisited
( 1 2 all )		 Evolving 4,505 33 04/15/04 02:49 PM
by Tao
* foundation of libertarianism followed to it's logical conclusion = anarchy
( 1 2 3 all )		 Anonymous 5,007 45 10/12/04 04:27 PM
by Anonymous
* For libertarians: A message of hope Silversoul 1,065 2 07/07/05 02:02 PM
by Redstorm
* A couple of questions on the minimum wage
( 1 2 all )		 Evolving 3,667 29 10/21/03 05:40 PM
by Evolving

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
9,466 topic views. 1 members, 18 guests and 53 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 18 queries.