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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate
    #17108109 -

Finally got a hold of some of this stuff.  I've been moderately interested for a while, and I found out just how easy it is to order, so I ordered 250mg last week and just got it today.  264mg :thumbup:.

So I've read that the fumarate form is less potent than the freebase form.  What's a good starter dose with fumarate?  I was thinking about starting with 10-15mg and ramping up to about 25mg.

:awecid:

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #17108133 -

Go for fifteen. Then go for 20-25. That is when it starts to get pretty intense.

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: phaded]
    #17108207 -

Fumarate is less potent by weight.  For every molecule of 4-aco-dmt (weighing 246.31 g/mol), theres 1 molecule of fumaric acid (which weighs 116.07 g/mol).  It's a good idea to account for this when dosing.

Easiest way is to convert a desired freebase dose to moles.  Then convert moles to grams of the 4-aco-dmt fumarate salt.

Edited by breeg89 (10/26/12 07:57 PM)

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: breeg89]
    #17108225 -

breeg89 said:
Fumarate is less potent by weight.  For every molecule of 4-aco-dmt (weighing 246.31 g/mol), theres 1 molecule of fumaric acid (which weighs 116.07 g/mol).  It's a good idea to account for this when dosing.


This seems to imply that you need to take double the dose of fumarate that you would of freebase.  I've heard that it's not that drastic, though.  I certainly wouldn't want to take 30mg expecting it to be as intense as 15mg of freebase...

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #17108243 -

^ I see your point.  Erowid lists a strong dose of the FUMARATE at 18-23 mg.

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: breeg89]
    #17108257 -

That sounds a bit closer.

I was also wondering if anybody had any experience mixing Syrian Rue with 4-AcO-DMT.  I read one thread about it that said it worked just like any other psychedelic, but I'm obviously wary of mixing new chemicals, especially when we're dealing with a research chemical.  Any experience with this, anybody?

I figure I could take maybe 10mg of the fumarate and then smoke some Syrian Rue if it doesn't end up being that intense.  That way I can make sure I don't overshoot it.

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: breeg89]
    #17108262 -

Just calculated - 15 mg of freebase is equal to 22 mg of fumarate salt.  Erowid seems about right.

4-aco-dmt will be metabolized by MAO, so syrian rue will intensify it.  I've never tried rue or caapi, but be careful with the 4-aco-dmt dose.  Its easy to overshoot, I read.  But since you're smoking it, not really an issue.

Edited by breeg89 (10/26/12 08:05 PM)

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: breeg89]
    #17108322 -

Right on.  I think for my first time I'll take 10mg and smoke Syrian Rue as needed.  Then I'll determine the next dose based on how the first went.

Where did you find fumarate dosage information on Erowid?  The dose page on the vault just says oral dose, which I assume to be freebase.

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #17108369 -

It's listed on the wikipedia page.  It says fumarate, and I might be wary to trust it, but my calculation seems to match it.  I'd wager most people get fumarate when they get it from a vendor because it's very unstable otherwise, so most reports and such are probably based on doses of fumarate.  Though, some vendors might have it as the HCl salt (more potent by weight than the fumarate salt).  But I doubt many vendors sell it as the freebase. 

Oh and good vibes man.

Edited by breeg89 (10/26/12 08:26 PM)

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: breeg89]
    #17108382 -

Ah, okay, I see it.  Thanks!  Maybe I should just start with 15mg, which is about the middle of the common dose range :shrug:.  I would probably leave the Syrian Rue out of that one unless it was much weaker than I had anticipated.  We'll see; I'll think on it for a little bit.  I won't be doing my "research" until Sunday.

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #17108433 -

I have never heard of these drugs.  Did I understand correctly that both can be obtained legally?


--------------------
There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: mpd]
    #17108451 -

Yessir.  But don't consume them.  They're for research purposes only  :smoking:

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: Psilosomniac]
    #17108539 -

OIC.  Where might an accredited "researcher" find these materials for the purposes of conducting further research?


--------------------
There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: mpd]
    #17108646 -

i would really like to see the melting point of this chemical :crazy2: is it available in canada?

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: CHRONICxPAYNE]
    #17108968 -

www.researchchemicals.net

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: mpd]
    #17109030 -

mpd said:
OIC.  Where might an accredited "researcher" find these materials for the purposes of conducting further research?


shit is hard to find....don't waste your time...

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: BTL99]
    #17109192 -

Do a 35mg dose and hang on to your ass.  You will be fucking knocked dick silly in about 20 minutes and its well worth it, and something you will be glad you tried once. :awesomenod:


--------------------
:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: breeg89]
    #17109899 -

freebase sucks because it degrades quick  be glad u got the fumerate :sunny:


--------------------
"Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods
"I hope JSB kicks your ass one day." - Vandago
"you are the biggest 'internet guy' I have ever come across"- Jokeshopbeard
"The more I see you post the more I realize you're just this fuckin tie dye loser who trolls the Shroomery 24/7." - Herbologist
"Sheekle you cannot vile the dice of bullshit you have posted on this forum over the years, I like databases" - thelastoneleft
"or maybe i just come from a blood line of superior intelligence" - trees

R.I.P Kelsy, ?/?/?? - 6/11/16

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: Sheekle]
    #17109941 -

i've wanted to try this chem for a while, 4 ho met is one of my all time favorite psychedelics


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority

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Re: Just got some 4-AcO-DMT fumarate [Re: psyconaught]
    #17110015 -

^ I had been wanting to try it too.  4-oh-met is amazing, but it did not agree with me physically.  I got really bad vasoconstriction.  Honestly, the trip I just had on the real deal from nature makes me never want to use an RC again.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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