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OfflineDogomush
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why do we build tolerance to shrooms?
    #1687158 - 07/05/03 01:06 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Anybody know how tolerance to shrooms works? What change does dosing on shrooms make in your brain that makes you not accept the psilocin for a few days after you trip? Is there more MAO or another enzyme in the blood?


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OfflineFaaip_De_Oiad
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1687255 - 07/05/03 01:57 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

great question! unfortunately I have no idea what the answer is. haha


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InvisibleCracka_X
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1687300 - 07/05/03 02:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Think of it as adaptation. New poisons are produced to kill mosquitos b/c they've become "tolerant" to the old poison.

If you take too much of anything, you'll become tolerant of it. The more you tan the more tolerant you are of getting burned.
Same with Pharms, that's why we came from Penicillin to Amoxicillin to Tetracycline to what's now the strongest out there, Levaquin.

Do you really need to be tripping so often???


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineSev
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Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1687494 - 07/05/03 06:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Cracka_X said:
Think of it as adaptation.  New poisons are produced to kill mosquitos b/c they've become "tolerant" to the old poison.

If you take too much of anything, you'll become tolerant of it.  The more you tan the more tolerant you are of getting burned. 
Same with Pharms, that's why we came from Penicillin to Amoxicillin to Tetracycline to what's now the strongest out there, Levaquin.





...Well, not really.  What's going on with the mosquitos and the antibiotics is actually darwinian selection, progressing over hundreds or thousands of generations. 

What happens with shrooms happens within an organism, and can be thought of as someone's batteries needing recharging. 

...I don't know why I'm posting this, it's not really imprtant, but that's what you get when I stay up until 6 am. :wink: 


--------------------
"Do we want the stars? We can have them. Can we borrow cups of fire from the sun? We can and must and light the world." --"On the Shoulders of Giants", Ray Bradbury

All of my posts are full of fiction and blatant lies.


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Sev]
    #1687594 - 07/05/03 09:13 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineDailyPot
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Cracka_X]
    #1687875 - 07/05/03 01:27 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum1&Number=1596911&Forum=Forum1&Words=tolerence&Match=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=1596911&Search=true#Post1596911

Quote:

Cracka_X said:
Think of it as adaptation.  New poisons are produced to kill mosquitos b/c they've become "tolerant" to the old poison. 



Actully if I remeber correctly what happens is every creature reacts differently to drugs. You know how you have those friends that get fucked up real easily and then you have the ones that take out tons of shit and say they only have a buzz? Well its the same way for mosquitos, the ones that are affected stronger die, the ones that physically aren't as affected survive, and go on to have children which also dont die from that poision either. The 'tolerence' built up is only cuz the survivors are the only ones that can reproduce. I wonder if this means little by little we are going to create a bread of super mosquitos :confused:


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OfflineDogomush
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: DailyPot]
    #1688102 - 07/05/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Boppity's link was interesting but it didn't tackle the tolerance against drugs.

The tolerance the article spoke of said that the tolerance is compensatory measures against the drug, and when you take the drug away that's why you get withdrawal from it. But this isn't the case with mushrooms.. mushroom tolerance is very different.

Cracka_X :

Your response wasn't at all what I'm looking for. Obviously I understand why tolerance comes about, I'm wondering what the actions in the body that make a tolerance to mushrooms and other tryptamines are. Do you have anything useful to say about it?


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OfflineCockyMandrill
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1689103 - 07/06/03 12:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

No one really knows why, but think about this, we do not build a tolerance to DMT, you can smoke pure DMT over and over without any tolerance. DMT is the pschedelic naturally produced in our body.


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OfflineDailyPot
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: CockyMandrill]
    #1689110 - 07/06/03 12:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You build tolerence to DMT. Thats why they say w/e you're gonna smoke you better do in a min cuz after that your body will kill it. Its just that its tolerence fades quicker than other longer acting drugs.


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Invisiblethedudenj
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Registered: 08/18/04
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: DailyPot]
    #4819195 - 10/18/05 02:42 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

no you have to smoke it quick cause the temp gets to low and the dmt wont reach your lungs that why you need torch lighter and glass pipe it has to be vapor you could drink ayahausca for a month straight and get same effect i have done ayahausca 2 days in a row and the 2nd day is always stronger read DMT book by rick strausmen


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours


Edited by thedudenj (10/18/05 02:43 AM)


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Dogomush]
    #4819665 - 10/18/05 08:06 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

from what I know, the body essentially agrees with the DEA and the Audobon Society in the notion that Psilocybe mushrooms are toxic. Following a "poisoning", the body mounts defenses against another one occuring soon after the initial one. It's not too dissimilar from how snake handlers eventually get to a point where rattlesnake bites do no more than cause a headache or flu-like symptoms, with the exception being that mushroom tolerance is very short and does not get to a point where it's permanent. I don't know if it's the immune system that causes it, or if it's a faster metabolic response, or something else.

But that's all just my impression on the matter. For all I know it could just be a lingering effect on the brain which causes temporarily decreased sensitivity to the chemicals.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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Invisiblebadchad
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4819679 - 10/18/05 08:26 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

It is probably due to receptor desensitization. That is, if we stimulate the 5-HT2A receptor subtype, the body responds by "downregulating" the receptor. While the following link deals with LSD, it is thought that psilocybin and LSD share 5-Ht2A receptor binding as a common characteristic:

LINK

In most cases, tolerance is defined as "a decreased response to a given dosage of drug, or the need of an increased dose to get the same effect". The mechanism of "tolerance" however can occur in many ways. FOr instance, one could gain a tolerance because the metabolic processes that break down the drug increase.

The case of receptor desensitization seems likely because of how quickly tolerance to shrooms is gained. FOr example, you get a tremendous decrease in effects if you take them two days in a row.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinewjames
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Registered: 02/16/05
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: badchad]
    #4821509 - 10/18/05 06:33 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Here's a link to a recent article on the mechanism of LSD tolerance:

http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6575

Since LSD and psilocybin have cross-tolerance, it might relate to the question asked.

The article is too technical for me.  Maybe someone else can explain it in simple terms :smile:

I would have guessed that tolerance is caused by production of some enzyme or molecule that degrades or removes psilocin after it binds to the post-synaptic 5-HT(2A) receptor--but I don't see the above article saying this.


--------------------
"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4821725 - 10/18/05 07:32 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
from what I know, the body essentially agrees with the DEA and the Audobon Society in the notion that Psilocybe mushrooms are toxic. Following a "poisoning", the body mounts defenses against another one occuring soon after the initial one. It's not too dissimilar from how snake handlers eventually get to a point where rattlesnake bites do no more than cause a headache or flu-like symptoms, with the exception being that mushroom tolerance is very short and does not get to a point where it's permanent. I don't know if it's the immune system that causes it, or if it's a faster metabolic response, or something else.

But that's all just my impression on the matter. For all I know it could just be a lingering effect on the brain which causes temporarily decreased sensitivity to the chemicals.




I think you got the right idea.
Your immune system creates a defense specifically designed to kill certain tryptamine indoles. After a few days, the defense wears down.
I don't know for sure, just a little speculation...


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Offlinethecazz723
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #4821942 - 10/18/05 08:22 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, the body has a hard time making antibodies to things as small as molecules. Usually the objects attacked by antibodies are much bigger..proteins, glycopeptides, bacteria, yeast, and the like. It's more likely a matter of running down neurotransmitter stores or down regulation of receptors.


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Offlinethecazz723
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: thecazz723]
    #4821958 - 10/18/05 08:26 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

And generally speaking immune responses last for a long time....thats why you only get chicken pox once, your body remembers it and can fight off additional exposures.


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InvisibleTrippingDuality
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Re: why do we build tolerance to shrooms? [Re: Konnrade]
    #4822052 - 10/18/05 08:42 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
from what I know, the body essentially agrees with the DEA and the Audobon Society in the notion that Psilocybe mushrooms are toxic. Following a "poisoning", the body mounts defenses against another one occuring soon after the initial one. It's not too dissimilar from how snake handlers eventually get to a point where rattlesnake bites do no more than cause a headache or flu-like symptoms, with the exception being that mushroom tolerance is very short and does not get to a point where it's permanent. I don't know if it's the immune system that causes it, or if it's a faster metabolic response, or something else.

But that's all just my impression on the matter. For all I know it could just be a lingering effect on the brain which causes temporarily decreased sensitivity to the chemicals.




i love this explanation :smile: :thumbup:


--------------------
turn off your mind relax and float downstream


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