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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Genuine Friendship
    #16840370 -

What do you think genuine friendship is? Do you think it's possible? Are we completely motivated by selfish desires, or does true compassion exist? :strokebeard:

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16840376 -

I think compassion is associated with good because of a pleasant release of neurotransmitters.

But you already knew that. :tongue:

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: Memories]
    #16840396 -

Do you believe then that compassion was a product of evolution? It's better for the individual if the tribe sticks together and they care for one another.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16840413 -

Yes. If we had evolved as solitary creatures, the sight of others would make us feel things like anger or fear.

Honestly though, I think we might have very little emotion if we had evolved solitarily.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: Memories]
    #16840419 -

Okay, Memories, I'll ask you another question. Lets assume you are correct that friendship only arises because of pleasure. Now certain friendships cause me more pleasure then others, and certain others cause me pain. So genuine friendship could be when interacting with that person, it brings joy or happiness, whereas an ungenuine friendship would being friends with someone even if being with them causes pain. I guess then the reasons to have those sorts of relationships would be to acquire resources, or for protection.

Edit: lol this isn't a question. :blush:
I'm high.

Edited by White Beard (09/13/12 10:33 AM)

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16840435 -

I think my point here was that there are experiences in our consciousness we would call friendship. Some are better then others. Way better. Now what makes one friendship better then another one. One where happiness is maximized on both ends for sure. How to create friendships like this though? :strokebeard:

Edited by White Beard (09/13/12 10:38 AM)

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16840436 -

White Beard said:
Do you believe then that compassion was a product of evolution? It's better for the individual if the tribe sticks together and they care for one another.


I do to some extent. I think it comes more from a standpoint of social relationships though. For instance,  me and the cooks at the restaurant I work at have been through some really shitty times working there, but we get through it by being friends. I felt genuinely bad leaving this summer to work in MN because I knew they would miss my being there washing dishes.

My fellow canoe guides in MN are also very close because we share the same experiences, good and bad.

I also have my small group of friends from college that I talk to on FB and on the phone pretty often because I genuinely miss their company.

Then there's my long time friends which have been in my life since childhood. Even though I don't see them as much as I once did, I still feel genuinely happy for them if something good happens and genuinely bad when something goes wrong in their lives.


--------------------
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16840443 -

Why/how do these social attachments develop?

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16840467 -

White Beard said:
Why/how do these social attachments develop?


Through lots of shared experiences and extensive amounts of time spent together. When you find yourself spending lots of time with the same people it benefits the group if everyone tries to get along rather than being at odds.


--------------------
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16840473 -

White Beard said:
I think my point here was that there are experiences in our consciousness we would call friendship. Some are better then others. Way better. Now what makes one friendship better then another one. One where happiness is maximized on both ends for sure. How to create friendships like this though? :strokebeard:


I will raise your stoned with an I'm dissociated as fuck on MXE. I wish i was stoned too though.

In my experience, I'm tight as fuck with anyone who won't judge me or think I'm fucked up for who i am. I fucking love socializing when the vibes are good. I honestly come out of my shell extremely quickly at the hint of a like mind. I pretty much put it all out there.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #16840498 -

Good points. Though I often see social groups that have been together for long periods of time, but they don't get along. Families often seem to have a lot of in fighting.

If what you say is true, then more time with people should equal greater friendship. But sometimes the opposite is true. More time with certain people just creates hatred and bitterness. I guess the simple answer to that is if you have a lot of shared negative experiences with that person, you're mind would connect that person to the past experiences, and try and stay away from them.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: Memories]
    #16840538 -

Memories said:
White Beard said:
I think my point here was that there are experiences in our consciousness we would call friendship. Some are better then others. Way better. Now what makes one friendship better then another one. One where happiness is maximized on both ends for sure. How to create friendships like this though? :strokebeard:


I will raise your stoned with an I'm dissociated as fuck on MXE. I wish i was stoned too though.

In my experience, I'm tight as fuck with anyone who won't judge me or think I'm fucked up for who i am. I fucking love socializing when the vibes are good. I honestly come out of my shell extremely quickly at the hint of a like mind. I pretty much put it all out there.


Yes, I agree. The sad thing is in the past I found it hard to find like mind. I know of what you speak though. That's what I mean when I say genuine friendship. That feeling of coming out of your shell for someone else and no one is judging, feels pretty fucking good. It only happens with certain people I find.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16840544 -

White Beard said:
What do you think genuine friendship is?


Not wanting anything off of each other, other than each others company

Im really blessed as i have a buddy right now who i get along really well with, we have quite a lot of telepathic stuff going on which is cool

Just today i was thinking about how much i Love him, we have loads of inside jokes, we're kind of like JD & Turk from Scrubs or like Harold & Kumar, he's short, large, and Indian & im tall, skinny & white. Quite funny to see us together for the onlooker i'd imagine.

I seem to have these special friends one at a time, the last 2 died on me totally out the blue but im so blessed to randomly meet another great friend. I have a couple other good mates but i usually do seem to bond with one particular person & hang with them a lot, maybe its compensation for never having had a gf

One thing i've noticed is that whenever i meet one of my friends group of friends there's always one that takes a disliking to me, so i never really try & have one group of friends like some people do, so i have several individual friends that rarely meet, and they all have their own 'groups' that i don't mix with much

Friends, how many of us have them, friends!


--------------------

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: Chronic7]
    #16840599 -

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was living among the Sakyans. Now there is a Sakyan town named Sakkara. There Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, Ven. Ananda said to the Blessed One, "This is half of the holy life, lord: admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie."

"Don't say that, Ananda. Don't say that. Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16840606 -

:smile::thumbup:


--------------------


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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16847382 -

Quote:
What do you think genuine friendship is? Do you think it's possible? Are we completely motivated by selfish desires, or does true compassion exist?


-A genuine friendships is a relationship of 2 life forms who never put their egoistic needs above the other.
-You only know if it's possible if you're capable of giving one.
-Yes to both, we are completely motivated by selfish desires and true compassion exists.


--------------------
It's fine.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: White Beard]
    #16849218 -

hmm, think of yourself as ending at your skin, or think of yourself as everything.
The motivation for actions are egoistical in both cases, but in 2nd you work with compassion.
But.. then the compassion is from yourself, toward yourself. Odd.
You have to see the person that goes by your name as just another one of them all and love him/her just as much as anyone.
You may exhibit some eccentric behavior, such as talking about yourself in 3d person.. depending on how much you care about presenting this person to others.
But who is really doing it? Who is having the perspective? God? Uhh, no and yes. Yes because there is nothing else but god and
it's in all things, but no; it's the ego doing it.
It's the ego who has this perspective and identifying with everything, it's only fooling itself by a belief it is that.
It should be non-existent to really become it. This includes identifying with anything. Something that does not exist cannot identify with anything. 
But there is no existence in this reality without ego. It is what makes this reality for us.
One would say, so what's the deal then? If death is the liberation, what are we waiting for? Death anxiety?
In most cases I guess, it's what it's there for; but this existence has a meaning. It's making the One have a richer experience of itself.
If it's so, then we are truly nothing but humble servants, no matter what we do, no matter how we live and what our beliefs are.
It's all the same.
Everything else such as bad, good, evil, sin, justice, cold, painful, any property whatsoever is nothing but what egos are doing in egoland. It's all nothing but out concepts, that matter to nobody but ourselves.
Do you think the consciousness can have an opinion? In other words: Do you think your god is capable of giving a damn about anything? Could it be that it created ego exactly for a reason to be able to give a damn?
..just some random disorganized thoughts, feel free to fill in.


--------------------
It's fine.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: cbub]
    #16849336 -

... and like always, a synchronicity in a song on the radio...
And I even knew it's coming, it always does. Every time I'm with such thoughts there's some instant answers posing as help.

  • So here you are, you brought some future with you
    For quite some time you've known that you're free
    When future becomes present, you know it will happen
    Waiting. Is this what you planned it to be
    Then time disappears and then you in it
    Clouds dance in cartwheels you're not you any more
    Time returns and then takes more time
    You become quicker in it you are moved by much more
    The moment is the action you take, but wait
    Your eye looks at what you're doing, is afraid
    Of the thing that you know, it was always there
    The music stops, but still plays in the air
    Is this what you wanted - you're afraid - at the start
    But now everything's different, we're right at the heart
    It's all about us nothing like before
    And it makes us brothers with a day at the shore

    You can feel the grass here and there something is moving
    You enjoy it but no it isn't just that
    After opening all the doors at the end there's the trick
    That the end of the search is in finding right now
    You breathe in
    You breathe out
    This body is your home and you know it well
    You live - you're alive - your are conscious of that
    Without thinking just from your own lust for life
    The feeling you're feeling tells you it's time
    And then space and time they change their condition
    Your reason returns but you don't employ it
    Every step one more country, will it always go on
    You feel the energy of life through you
    Life in harmony as never before, you enjoy
    There's nothing to be improved on, nothing could be more
    Than just you here and now and the day at the shore


--------------------
It's fine.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: cbub]
    #16849447 -

  • Another turning point a fork stuck in the road
    Time grabs you by the wrist directs you where to go
    So make the best of this test and don't ask why
    It's not a question but a lesson learned in time

    [Chorus]
    It's something unpredictable but in the end
    It's right I hope you've had the time of your life

    So take the photographs and still frames in your mind
    Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time
    Tattoos and memories and dead skin on trial
    For what it's worth it was worth all the while


--------------------
It's fine.

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Re: Genuine Friendship [Re: cbub]
    #16854501 -

cbub said:
hmm, think of yourself as ending at your skin, or think of yourself as everything.
The motivation for actions are egoistical in both cases, but in 2nd you work with compassion.
But.. then the compassion is from yourself, toward yourself. Odd.
You have to see the person that goes by your name as just another one of them all and love him/her just as much as anyone.
You may exhibit some eccentric behavior, such as talking about yourself in 3d person.. depending on how much you care about presenting this person to others.
But who is really doing it? Who is having the perspective? God? Uhh, no and yes. Yes because there is nothing else but god and
it's in all things, but no; it's the ego doing it.
It's the ego who has this perspective and identifying with everything, it's only fooling itself by a belief it is that.
It should be non-existent to really become it. This includes identifying with anything. Something that does not exist cannot identify with anything. 
But there is no existence in this reality without ego. It is what makes this reality for us.
One would say, so what's the deal then? If death is the liberation, what are we waiting for? Death anxiety?
In most cases I guess, it's what it's there for; but this existence has a meaning. It's making the One have a richer experience of itself.
If it's so, then we are truly nothing but humble servants, no matter what we do, no matter how we live and what our beliefs are.
It's all the same.
Everything else such as bad, good, evil, sin, justice, cold, painful, any property whatsoever is nothing but what egos are doing in egoland. It's all nothing but out concepts, that matter to nobody but ourselves.
Do you think the consciousness can have an opinion? In other words: Do you think your god is capable of giving a damn about anything? Could it be that it created ego exactly for a reason to be able to give a damn?
..just some random disorganized thoughts, feel free to fill in.


Okay, I've given this some thought and here's what I think. The totality always works in harmony with itself as there is only itself. Would this be compassion? I don't think so as there is no object of compassion. But on the egoic level there can be some working out of harmony between egos (though this out of harmony between egoic reference points is still total harmony with the all). I guess compassion is when egoic reference points are in harmony together so then the harmony with the totality of existence becomes more apparent; the pattern is easier to see. So it seems to me that genuine friendship isn't a line, it's more of a gradient of harmony between two or more egos. The more the ego's mesh or harmonize, the more 'friendship' would be there, to put it that way. The more out of sync the egos are, the more they would hate one another. Though this hate is still in harmony with the all. There's some random thoughts back at you. :smile:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Spirituality & Mysticism
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