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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Seeking genuine religious experience
    #19361230 - 01/02/14 11:02 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

I am a traveler and have explored occultism and psychedelics extensively, alongside many other practices and traditions. Bluntly I am skeptical that I have ever perceived anything supernatural or manifested anything, is there any way to find a genuine religious experience that isn't dependent on a level of faith that borders on schizophrenia.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms] * 1
    #19362245 - 01/03/14 06:58 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
I am a traveler and have explored occultism and psychedelics extensively, alongside many other practices and traditions. Bluntly I am skeptical that I have ever perceived anything supernatural or manifested anything, is there any way to find a genuine religious experience that isn't dependent on a level of faith that borders on schizophrenia.





IMO no.  True spirituality imo is engaging in your day to day life with gusto and eyes open.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Icelander]
    #19366063 - 01/03/14 10:03 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Thank you, that, aside from all the types of thinking that are encrypted in ritual, I also believe is the real purpose of religion, to give that feeling to those to weak to accept their own death.

That being said I am also absolutely unsure of any of the lines of thought I follow, not all of which converge.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Icelander]
    #19366251 - 01/03/14 11:00 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
I am a traveler and have explored occultism and psychedelics extensively, alongside many other practices and traditions. Bluntly I am skeptical that I have ever perceived anything supernatural or manifested anything, is there any way to find a genuine religious experience that isn't dependent on a level of faith that borders on schizophrenia.





IMO no.  True spirituality imo is engaging in your day to day life with gusto and eyes open.




:thumbup:
It's seeing life as it really is in the present moment IMO
The rest is delusion...Albeit kinda nice at times :shrug:


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OfflineSammysong
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: cez]
    #19368961 - 01/04/14 03:59 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

He believes that he can be enlightened. But he can’t – for he is nothing but a cluster of sensations. Visual, tactile and auditory phenomena are construed into a “body” by an act of conceptualizing, which is the functioning whereby objects are fabricated in the mind. Where there is nothing but fleeting sensations, “he” is conjured up by thought.


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OfflineLysergicX7
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Sammysong]
    #19369671 - 01/04/14 06:32 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Considering how common mystical experiences (having a spiritual meaning that is difficult to see or understand) are on psychedelics, I can only say perhaps there is something wrong with your approach, or maybe you haven't explored this deeply enough?

Be open to it, take enough, and you will most likely experience it. If you aren't open to the idea then you will probably forebode yourself from ever getting there.

Depends what you are looking for though. What do you mean by supernatural or religious? If you use this definition of supernatural: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially :  of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil.

You will never find that unless you are open to the concept of it, this is very different from wishful thinking or hoping because psychedelics definitely embody those experiences, without question. It's what they are about. That's why they have such profound effects on cognition. People experience those things all the time on psychedelics. It's certainly there if you look hard enough.


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“Everybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self – the deep down basic whatever there is. And you’re all that… only you’re pretending you’re not.” -Alan Watts

I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.”
― Albert Hofmann


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19370778 - 01/04/14 11:30 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:

is there any way to find a genuine religious experience that isn't dependent on a level of faith that borders on schizophrenia.




Do you mean out of body experiences? You don't really need faith or beliefs in anything mystical to have an OBE, they just take practice. As far as what they mean, or if they're real :shrug:


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19370792 - 01/04/14 11:35 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

As far as psychedelics go, they're somewhat different from sober OBEs. The whole experience is just drastically different and I've personally had OBEs before doing any drugs

Straight meditation can lead to an experience, the easiest way to start is with Lucid Dreaming though. Attempting to project during meditation frequently, eventually brings on LD as well, it helps to write down dreams over the course of a few months and become accustomed to remembering them - maintaining awareness during sleep.

Personally I don't know what to think of the experiences, but looking further down the rabbit hole seems to be the only reasonable option to me.


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OfflineCupCup
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19371309 - 01/05/14 03:42 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

It is silly to seek experience. you have been doing that for thousands of years. Instead seek the experiencer. Who are you really? Who wants to know what and why? What will the experiences 'give' you.

Why are you not satisfied and happy? and what do you think there is out in the world that will bring you peace?

For your nature is peace itself. And your mind is the ornament of God. So what do you need? Decide what you need and ask me what you really need from all this. Then I can help you in more detail.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19371636 - 01/05/14 07:28 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

is there any way to find a genuine religious experience that isn't dependent on a level of faith that borders on schizophrenia.




There will always be some level of involvement and confusion with schizo because authentic experience is born of contact and extended relationships with intelligences not human.  The breakdown of your perceived control is experienced as what we only call schizophrenia.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #19371727 - 01/05/14 08:04 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Vape some  :deemsters: and report back to us.  I'm sure something mystical will happen.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #19372264 - 01/05/14 10:44 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

I think to explain the comment on schizophrenia Julian Jayne put the theory forward that in the bicameral mind state 6 thousand years ago people hallucinated the voices of the gods cross-hemispherically.


That being said, I have had a number of experiences, that cause me to continue to pursue the supernatural, there is that which I know which is irrelevant to this conversation, what I am asking, is has anyone found a system of thought or ritual that they believe creates these sort of phenomenon consistently, with skepticism that allows us to discern the truth in the first god damn place.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19373106 - 01/05/14 01:48 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:

That being said, I have had a number of experiences, that cause me to continue to pursue the supernatural, there is that which I know which is irrelevant to this conversation, what I am asking, is has anyone found a system of thought or ritual that they believe creates these sort of phenomenon consistently, with skepticism that allows us to discern the truth in the first god damn place.




Astral projection, I can make a list of exercises if you want. Theirs no need to believe the experience is real to have it, from there its up to you what to make of it. Some think its a creation of the physical brain, a chemical reaction.

It takes a lot of time and effort, but its a series of exercises which produce the effect which is very vivid. Not something you tell yourself is there, something you experience. Whether or not that experience is real :shrug:


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19373564 - 01/05/14 03:48 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Astral projection is one attainment I have not met with yet, I would love a list


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19373576 - 01/05/14 03:50 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

If you go to an internet message board to find out what "genuine spiritual experience" is all about, and then some how manage to take a jab at religious belief that "borders on schizophrenia" (most likely a reference to adherents of Abrahamic theism)... I would say that just about sums up the extent of any religious experience you will ever have.

The extent, if not obvious, is that it will end up being a dry and absolutely devoid of anything uniquely spiritual. For that matter absolutely superficial and at best synthetic. Man made. Just like the internet. You probably wont ever have a real spiritual experience that goes beyond your own ego... No offence.


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #19373860 - 01/05/14 04:59 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I am so very glad that my destiny is not and never has been decided by small minded people who can only grasp the periphery elements of a conversation.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19374317 - 01/05/14 06:53 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I am very impressed with the quality of the responses in this thread. Anyway, as your first post indicates there is no way to automatically generate a genuine mystical experience, at least none that is easily accessible. There is good reason for this.

" isn't dependent on a level of faith that borders on schizophrenia. "

This is a curious statement, schizophrenia is a mental disorder that is highly associated with extreme fear and faith is almost the opposite of fear. It seems quite obvious to me that your problem is lack of faith. Generally what is unappealing to the ego is exactly what the soul needs to take the next step. This is how the ego keeps control over people, it convinces them that they don't need whatever it is that they really need. Develop true faith and you will have your experience.

But as others pointed out, it is a waste of energy to seek experiences. Seek the experiencer.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19374479 - 01/05/14 07:36 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
Astral projection is one attainment I have not met with yet, I would love a list




There's two distinct approaches which generally produce different experiences, its best I think to use both as they seem symbiotic.

The first: Projection      Second: Lucid Dreaming


Exercise for Lucid Dreaming
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Writing down whatever you can remember of various dreams, I don't recommend "interpreting" them like a lot of people do. Over time it becomes easier to remember, and personally I find myself realizing more often that I'm in a dream. At that moment one can begin a Lucid Dream, and that's done by maintaining awareness and interacting with the experience (walking around, doing shit). Never last very long myself, but one thing that helps is not to think of your body as generally that will cause one to quickly wake up.


Exercise for Projection
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not sure if this is necessary for projection, but its how I started and feels symbiotic with the whole experience. Basically sitting down and focusing on the '3rd eye', watching for lights which may appear and focusing on that point loosely. Eventually one sees various colors which over time grow stronger, at some point one begins to feel those lights and hear them. Further concentration on those sensations brings an experience (and can often be an experience of its own).


Exercise for LD & Projection
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sitting down and imagining one's self standing up from where one is sitting. Seeing everything as it would be seen, feeling the sensation of the floor as one walks, the air against the skin, and sound. All in one's head, moving over to various items to inspect carefully, small details like the dusty corner of a window sill or a doorknob. The idea is to work on concentration and creating the details in one's mind.



Experiences
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My own self-induced experiences started out pretty vague, to the point where it was imagination more than anything else. Overtime sensations became more and more vivid, probably a good 2 years in they got to the point where I could clearly say they weren't placebo. Whatever it is, its very potent like a psychedelic trip only with a different character altogether than a trip.




:manofapproval:


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19375088 - 01/05/14 10:17 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I'm not sure what happened, when I was 13-14 I experimented heavily with lucid dreaming and had great results, it just doesn't come as easily now to be honest.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19375900 - 01/06/14 05:38 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I've stopped practicing the past few years, been meaning to start up again but put it off for certain undisclosed reasons


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19376893 - 01/06/14 11:24 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
I'm not sure what happened, when I was 13-14 I experimented heavily with lucid dreaming and had great results, it just doesn't come as easily now to be honest.




Same is true for me I used to be able to lucid dream when I was a kid and now I dont seem to anymore or when I do its not very special and I wake up.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Deviate]
    #19377054 - 01/06/14 12:06 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I read somewhere that the brain naturally filters these things out as you get older, as they are in reality only manifestations of the subconscious mind.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19377174 - 01/06/14 12:57 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
I am so very glad that my destiny is not and never has been decided by small minded people who can only grasp the periphery elements of a conversation.





Tell that to the president if he ever decides to draft you. You talk about your "destiny" like you know what it is or what guides it. You don't. If you did, you probably wouldn't have started this post on a religious subform of a psychedellic message board. What you are claiming to be "small minded", is most likely a sort of failed and innacurate attempted to express your reaction which is predicated on your feeling small when confronted with adversity. Again, no offense.


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #19377198 - 01/06/14 01:06 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Actually I was using destiny in its loosest and least religious of meanings, simply to say, you do not know me, you clearly misjudge me and came here specifically to do so, which points in fact to your feeling small in the face of adversity as you put it. And my sound reason being the adversity you fear.


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The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: SeaShrooms]
    #19377311 - 01/06/14 01:44 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

SeaShrooms said:
I read somewhere that the brain naturally filters these things out as you get older, as they are in reality only manifestations of the subconscious mind.




That's one idea, there's little enough proof to point in either direction though. For myself I can still induce an experience but haven't kept up a regular thing

We start degrading pretty young biologically speaking, its interesting to think how our dreams might decay as well, and that they might die with the rest of us.

:hamletmonkey:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19378860 - 01/06/14 07:18 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

I still dream just as much as ever, just not lucidly anymore and like I said if I do become lucid in a dream then Im just like "Oh I'm dreaming" whereas when I was a kid it was like "this is so awesome, let me try to control everything".


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OfflineGoldenEye
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: Deviate]
    #19378929 - 01/06/14 07:31 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

genuine religious experience... like that square circle I saw the other day.

:lol:


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OfflineSeaShrooms
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Re: Seeking genuine religious experience [Re: GoldenEye]
    #19382037 - 01/07/14 11:47 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Wow man, periodically I start the whole fluid retention/no booze/caffiene thing to balance myself out a little, I cut pot for a couple days and here come the dreams a rollin.


--------------------
The life of a condemned soul is hatred.


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