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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: Hemispheres]
    #16611822 -

Those questions have all been answered really, there are ass loads of weak minded sheeple out there who jump on all kinds of fad diet pseudo science trends.

Personal testimony does mean nothing to me as the senses are easily tricked and people will continue to be easily fooled.


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Edited by The Vapor (07/29/12 07:03 PM)

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: The Vapor] * 1
    #16611856 -

I just want to add this about fructose:

Consumption of fructose- but not glucose-sweetened beverages for 10 weeks increases circulating concentrations of uric acid, retinol binding protein- 4, and gamma-glutamyl transferase activity in overweight/obese humans.
Cox CL, Stanhope KL, Schwarz JM, Graham JL, Hatcher B, Griffen SC, Bremer AA, Berglund L, McGahan JP, Keim NL, Havel PJ.
Abstract
ABSTRACT:

BACKGROUND:
Prospective studies in humans examining the effects of fructose consumption on biological markers associated with the development of metabolic syndrome are lacking. Therefore we investigated the relative effects of 10 wks of fructose or glucose consumption on plasma uric acid and RBP-4 concentrations, as well as liver enzyme (AST, ALT, and GGT) activities in men and women.

METHODS:
As part of a parallel arm study, older (age 40-72), overweight and obese male and female subjects (BMI 25-35 kg/m2) consumed glucose- or fructose-sweetened beverages providing 25% of energy requirements for 10 wks. Fasting and 24-h blood collections were performed at baseline and following 10 wks of intervention and plasma concentrations of uric acid, RBP-4 and liver enzyme activities were measured.

RESULTS:
Consumption of fructose, but not glucose, led to significant increases of 24-h uric acid profiles (P < 0.0001) and RBP-4 concentrations (P = 0.012), as well as plasma GGT activity (P = 0.04). Fasting plasma uric acid concentrations increased in both groups; however, the response was significantly greater in subjects consuming fructose (P = 0.002 for effect of sugar). Within the fructose group male subjects exhibited larger increases of RBP-4 levels than women (P = 0.024).

CONCLUSIONS:
These findings suggest that consumption of fructose at 25% of energy requirements for 10 wks, compared with isocaloric consumption of glucose, may contribute to the development of components of the metabolic syndrome by increasing circulating uric acid, GGT activity, suggesting alteration of hepatic function, and the production of RBP-4.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22828276


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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: mellowparty]
    #16611876 -

Also evidence suggests that high fructose diets (and that includes monomeric fructose as that found in your beloved fruit) leads to non-alcoholic steatohepatitis and cirrhosis.


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Edited by mellowparty (07/29/12 07:21 PM)

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: mellowparty]
    #16611879 -

So it basically says that fructose fucks your liver and messes with protein production? That makes sense since all the sugars would wreck  you, as they are like grains of sand eroding your organs.


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Edited by The Vapor (07/29/12 07:15 PM)

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: The Vapor]
    #16611883 -

Well fructose as opposed to glucose is apparently more toxic.


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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: mellowparty]
    #16611890 -

It doesn't mean stop eating fruit it means one requires a balanced diet that includes meat and fruit and a whole lot of other shit for a healthy existence.

What the fruit guy is saying is unsubstantiated bollocks.


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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: mellowparty]
    #16611895 -

Studies like this really just make me believe even more so that balance is they key to every aspect of life. Too much fruit/veg and its bad for you, too much meat and its bad for you, but mix the two and have a balanced diet and you are good to go. Too little exercise is bad for you, too much exercise is bad for you, but a balance is fine. Etc.


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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: The Vapor]
    #16611901 -

you got it


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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: mellowparty]
    #16611920 -

:awesomenod:


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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: mellowparty]
    #16611939 -

mellowparty said:
I just want to add this about fructose:

Consumption of fructose- but not glucose-sweetened beverages for 10 weeks increases circulating concentrations of uric acid, retinol binding protein- 4, and gamma-glutamyl transferase activity in overweight/obese humans.
Cox CL, Stanhope KL, Schwarz JM, Graham JL, Hatcher B, Griffen SC, Bremer AA, Berglund L, McGahan JP, Keim NL, Havel PJ.
Abstract




stop polluting this thread with facts and sciency stuff

what's your favorite vegetable?

candy corn

what's your favorite fruit?

candy orange slices


sugar diets, lol


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: mellowparty] * 1
    #16612028 -

Your posting that fructose study is pathetic. As if giving a bunch of overweight middle-aged people fructose-sweetened cola for 10 wks. proves anything. I think the idea that fructose is the most dominant sugar in fruits is actually a misconception too; I think sucrose is the most dominant.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: s240779]
    #16612125 -

There is a whole body of evidence to suggest that fructose impairs liver function. That was the result of a 30 seconds search in pubmed so your lack of any posted studies is even more pathetic.


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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: s240779]
    #16612144 -

superhigh said:
Your posting that fructose study is pathetic. As if giving a bunch of overweight middle-aged people fructose-sweetened cola for 10 wks. proves anything. I think the idea that fructose is the most dominant sugar in fruits is actually a misconception too; I think sucrose is the most dominant.



depends on the source but fructose is more prevalent in most fruits which
really makes no difference since fruits are high in sugars, sucrose being
a saccharides contains glucose and fructose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose#Food_sources


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: s240779] * 1
    #16612209 -

There's a difference between isolated fructose and fruit, especially if what I mentioned is true and that fructose is not the dominant sugar in fruits (and this saccharides could be as distinct a difference as methamphetamine vs. methylenedioxy-methamphetamine -- distinctly different from glucose and fructose in their isolated forms).

The idea that a bunch of studies establish that fructose has a pronounced negative effect on the liver is ridiculous because of what I said above -- how much significance does isolated fructose have to this discussion -- and also because..studies are ridiculous. Nutrients for example are obviously responsible for a lot of functions in the body. Obviously conventional studies is paying no mind to a truly adequate diet and is using people in a pathetic undernourished state, so the effects that isolated fructose has on the subjects is completely uncontrolled. Whereas the health conscious raw vegan high fruit type of diet that you're criticizing -- for all you know the effect of fructose is dramatically different in them.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: s240779]
    #16612228 -

superhigh said:
There's a difference between isolated fructose and fruit, especially if what I mentioned is true and that fructose is not the dominant sugar in fruits (and this saccharides could be as distinct a difference as methamphetamine vs. methylenedioxy-methamphetamine -- distinctly different from glucose and fructose in their isolated forms).

The idea that a bunch of studies establish that fructose has a pronounced negative effect on the liver is ridiculous because of what I said above -- how much significance does isolated fructose have to this discussion -- and also because..studies are ridiculous. Nutrients for example are obviously responsible for a lot of functions in the body. Obviously conventional studies is paying no mind to a truly adequate diet and is using people in a pathetic undernourished state, so the effects that isolated fructose has on the subjects is completely uncontrolled. Whereas the health conscious raw vegan high fruit type of diet that you're criticizing -- for all you know the effect of fructose is dramatically different in them.


You lost me when you said studies are ridiculous.


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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: s240779]
    #16612247 -

superhigh said:
There's a difference between isolated fructose and fruit, especially if what I mentioned is true and that fructose is not the dominant sugar in fruits




if?

so it's guess work for you

I'd like to offer you some advice, buy an online degree, call yourself doctor and write a few books


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #16612289 -

Prisoner#1 said:
if?

so it's guess work for you

I'd like to offer you some advice, buy an online degree, call yourself doctor and write a few books


No, it's only guesswork in the context of an online discussion with immediate responses. This isn't a trial that is held over an extended period of time where we both provide well researched supporting evidence.

But you guys attempted to close a door. You built the fructose danger thing as a straw man and I decided to call you guys out on it. I have the right to say "if" because I'm just trying to open up a door that you guys closed wrongfully.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: s240779]
    #16612341 -

superhigh said:
Prisoner#1 said:
if?

so it's guess work for you

I'd like to offer you some advice, buy an online degree, call yourself doctor and write a few books


No, it's only guesswork in the context of an online discussion with immediate responses. This isn't a trial that is held over an extended period of time where we both provide well researched supporting evidence.


didnt you say yourself that studies were ridiculous?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16612209#16612209

Quote:
But you guys attempted to close a door. You built the fructose danger thing as a straw man and I decided to call you guys out on it. I have the right to say "if" because I'm just trying to open up a door that you guys closed wrongfully.


you sure showed us with all that guess work compared to ridiculous scientific studies


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #16612434 -

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
But you guys attempted to close a door. You built the fructose danger thing as a straw man and I decided to call you guys out on it. I have the right to say "if" because I'm just trying to open up a door that you guys closed wrongfully.


you sure showed us with all that guess work compared to ridiculous scientific studies


Let me clarify. What I mean by "calling you guys out" is I tried to point out that the fructose findings may not have much relevance to our discussion on high fruit diets. I pointed out that the connection between fruit and fructose may just be a common myth and I also pointed out that even if fructose is dominant in fruits, wouldn't it be simple minded to assume that the same negatives found in the studies apply to the high fruit diet because

A) Basing ones diet around fruit encompasses other important things such as using a particular variety of fruits; something not done in a study that isn't studying fruitarianism, obviously.

B) There could still be a significant difference between isolated fructose and fruit (assuming fructose is dominant) in that the way the fructose is absorbed could be significantly altered when the fiber and other contents of the fruit are taken into accounts like antioxidants.

What I'm saying is that both diet and the human body are very complex and when you put the two together, they're even more complex. It is in fact often repeated that there's a big difference between a fruit and its respective juice in that the fiber alone significantly slows the rate of absorption. That's just one example and given the complexities, the only types of studies that have relevance to this discussion are fruitarian studies. The introduction of fructose studies to this discussion is farfetched.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: Any Raw Vegans in here? [Re: s240779]
    #16612445 -

superhigh said:
Let me clarify. .



let me clarify, as of yet the frutarian end has yet to back a single one of it's claims


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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