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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4051127 -

Marmite is a byproduct of yeast fermentation right?

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: newuser1492]
    #4051130 -

right.


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"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: newuser1492]
    #4051145 -

Just think of those huge colonies of yeast murdered in cold blood. Bastards.

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: newuser1492]
    #4051154 -

like i said, i hate plants, what can i say? i'm a callous bastard.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4051175 -

Yeast is an FUNGI, not a plant.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: oDin]
    #4051177 -

Ya, I've been a bit too hard on vegetarians in the past, but at the same time I get sick of some of the arguments they make. On the one hand, they'll speak as if mankind is above nature, claiming that our reasoning capacities place on us a moral obligation not to cause suffering to other creatures. But death does not necessarily have to mean suffering. Death can be painless. There are also the dismal living conditions of factory farms to consider, but that is a problem with factory farms, not with meat itself. Factory farms are mainly able to prosper in this country due to farm subsidies, without which they would be much less cost-efficient, and would be less profitable than small farms, so I would consider it a moral obligation to lobby government to repeal farm subsidies. The "moral knowledge" argument also assumes other animals can't have morals. But what are morals other than behavioral standards of interaction? All social creatures have such standards.

On the other hand, some try to emphasize our oneness with nature. Of course, the implication of such justification would be that it is equally wrong to harm plants, so I won't waste my time with such ridiculousness.

The best argument for vegetarianism that I know of, besides certain health benefits, is environmentalism. The amount of meat we consume puts the sustainability of the ecosystem at risk. But then, this merely works as an argument for moderation in meat consumption, not complete vegetarianism. Again this problem is also largely due to factory farming, and would not exist to nearly the same degree if we had mostly small, family farms. And it says nothing about hunting, which in fact has helped to control populations of certain animals in areas where their natural predators have been wiped out.


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Phluck]
    #4051192 -

Phluck said:
Yeast is an FUNGI, not a plant.


i'm not a fan of fungi either.


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Silversoul]
    #4051275 -

nicely put, but i don't follow the logic why factory farms need subsidies but small farms don't. seems like wal-mart and supermarkets vs. mom and pop stores---the bigger store is going to be more efficient (especially if they don't 'waste' land by keeping chickens in small cages).


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: rogue_pixie]
    #4051277 -

youre at the wrong website then :wink:


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Magash's Grain Tek  + Tub-in-Tub Incubator + Magash's PMP + SBP Tek + Dunking = Practically all a newbie grower needs :thumbup:

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Tao]
    #4051308 -

i eat stuff i hate, it makes me feel great...nommmmmmm


--------------------
"Whatever you do, you need to keep moving.  Because when you stop moving you die (physically and emotionally).

Good luck and blessings of happiness and fortune." ~ RandalFlagg RIP


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Silversoul]
    #4051609 -

Paradigm said:
On the other hand, some try to emphasize our oneness with nature. Of course, the implication of such justification would be that it is equally wrong to harm plants, so I won't waste my time with such ridiculousness.



theres a debate in environmental ethics about where to draw the line. Sentient and non-sentient seperation in this regard is an important one. You dont generally see deep ecology literature say dont eat plants. Deep ecologists are generally well aware of the human necessities and how it can survive without necesary harm done to sentient beings.


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Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: BanJankri]
    #4051651 -

If someone want to live that lifestyle ... then fine, but seriously, their actions aren't making much of a difference, nor is their passive-aggressive action going to influence anything beyond them needing to find a new way to supplement the protein that is lost.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: BanJankri]
    #4051652 -

forums are fucking up, double post.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: BanJankri]
    #4051653 -

forums fucked up, triple post.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Tao]
    #4051675 -

Tao said:
nicely put, but i don't follow the logic why factory farms need subsidies but small farms don't. seems like wal-mart and supermarkets vs. mom and pop stores---the bigger store is going to be more efficient (especially if they don't 'waste' land by keeping chickens in small cages).


It's not that one needs subsidies and the other doesn't. Rather, subsidies have given the factory farms a competitive advantage over small farms which they would not have otherwise. BTW, Walmart is a pretty bad example for trying to prove that size=efficiency. Walmart is one of the biggest corporate welfare queens in the country.


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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Silversoul]
    #4051805 -

Vegan is extreme, but I don't eat meat. For one I feel unless I could stomach myself killing the animal in single combat and watching it die I have no business eating a dead animal. In the plains of Africa they chase a gazelle for up to 12 hours, until it is exhausted and then when the kill it they look it in eye, pet it's head and offer prayers thanking the animal for its body so that their families can live. They only eat the meat because they need to, and they know it comes from a living being, and not an inert substance that magically appears in the supermarket or at a fast food restuarant.

The other reason I don't eat it is because I don't believe in killing animals, even bugs unless they threaten others. Just because they are smaller, stupider or look different doesn't mean their own conscious existence is any less real than my own, and that they are any less entitled to be happy and free from pain.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #4051811 -

and then when the kill it they look it in eye, pet it's head and offer prayers thanking the animal for its body so that their families can live

I'm sure the gazelle really appreciates that.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: Phluck]
    #4051843 -

I think a peacefull death, kindness and reassurance that their death is serving a good purpose, even if they can't appreciate it on a very gross level, is the best way to go about it, and it's certainly better than locking them in crowded shit filled cages in factory farms and killing them with machines.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."

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Re: When a vegan lectures you on the evils of meat [Re: MOTH]
    #4052034 -

Yeah I've run in to that alot. And sadly , not I am eating less and less meat. I don't find any thing wrong with it, really.I used to eat a ton of it. I just...can't. Now I just pick it out and give it to Fireworks.I got a soy burger today to give that a try. YUEECH. :crazy:so I guess I'll ave to deal with it.

Blackie:flaming:


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BlackieRL:flaming:
BRL:flaming:

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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