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Offline121212
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URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Aus.
    #1655631 - 06/23/03 08:30 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Please do not reply simply saying how stupid these ppl are.. i'm already aware of that.

My friends who were up in lorne, Melbourne, have just injested mushrooms they found today without properly identifying them, they are very inexperienced on shrooms. I tried my best to get a description but it is very hard as they have none left. They injested the shrooms about 7 hours ago and they feel fine now, however i know this isn't an indicator that what they had wasn't poisunus.

I was hoping someone could give me an idea of what it might be based on the vauge details they could give me:

They said they had copper or dark brown tops and that this was one consistent colour except for a much darker bit in the middle (were the stem would come through...not blue bruising though), they saidthere were no lines on the top (like on coprinusus) and that it was instead one smooth surface (like subs or stopharia auranticia).

They said the gills were also copper, when i asked if they were the same color as the tops they said yes. When i asked if they were crowded she said yes.

From what i got out of them it seems the stem colour was a very light tan, cream etc. I asked if it was paper white and they said no... one friends said one was white, howeer the other friend disputed this so i assume none of them were white like subs stems are. It appears the stems were quite thin and wirey... i asked if when u hold them from the bottom they were stable and they said no, they would wave a bit to one side. Supposdly some were a bit thicker but they were all pretty thin, my friend said they were about 1-3mm diameter

The mushrooms were about 4cm high.

They ate about five each.

The deatials were very hard to get accuratly as this was all done over the phone. It is also very tricky as they have never been hunting before and didn't have anything to compare the shroomz to.

Any deatails on what anyone believes they injested and what action they should take would be greatly appriciated. And no they don't have any left to post a pic or get a better discription.

I know i might be being paranoid but i would rather be if there is any chance what they ate was dangeorous.
Peace


Edited by 121212 (06/23/03 08:32 AM)


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: 121212]
    #1655660 - 06/23/03 09:07 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

It's very hard to make an ID from that description. Where did the mushrooms grew: from the wood, pastures, lawn?

I don't want to scare you - It's not very likely but in worst case they ate Galerinas or Conocybe (Pholiotina) filaris which contain Amatoxins:

http://www.namyco.org/toxicology/poisoning.html#amanitin

Quote:

Extremely Serious. The fatality rate for Amanitin poisoning is about 50%. It is doubly dangerous due to the fact that the symptoms are delayed for 6 to 24 hours after ingestion, by which time the toxins have been completely absorbed by the body.

Amanitins are a group of complex cyclic polypeptides which damage tissues by inhibiting RNA synthesis within each individual cell. Onset of symptoms manifests itself in four stages:

* First stage is a latency period of 6 to 24 hours after ingestion, in which the toxins are actively destroying the victim's kidneys and liver, but the victim experiences no discomfort.
* Second stage is a period of about 24 hours characterized by violent vomiting, bloody diarrhea, and severe abdominal cramps.
* Third stage is a period of 24 hours during which the victim appears to recover (if hospitalized, the patient is sometimes released!)
* Fourth stage is a relapse, during which kidney and liver failure often occurs, leading to death. There may be more than one relapse.

If you have any reason to suspect that someone has ingested an amanitin-containing mushroom, Don't wait for Symptoms to appear! There is no antidote for amanitin poisoning, and the best hope is to rush the person to the hospital where the toxins can be removed before being fully absorbed into the body. Treatment is largely supportive and symptomatic. Penicillin, kutkin, and silibinin/silymarin show promise as treatments, along with oral activated charcoal and electrolytes.




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Offline121212
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: zeronio]
    #1655682 - 06/23/03 09:18 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I can't get hold of them now because the've gone to bed and there mobiles are switched off. They still have not felt sick at all. The environment was very foresty... it was very wet with lot's off moss around. They were just growing from the ground which was typical forest... ie woody, leafy etc. it sounds like they were woodlovers. I was under the impression the galerinas would have had a bigger stem and a annular ring.


Edited by 121212 (06/23/03 09:20 AM)


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Aus. [Re: 121212]
    #1655683 - 06/23/03 09:18 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

This is a tricky situation here;

Most mushroom poisonings occuring within a short period of time after ingestion, like within the first hour of eating.

Other poisonings occur within a long period of time after ingestion, like 1 week.
-Though this later type of poisoning is not as common as the first.

Keep us updated and if those kids start feeling sick they better get to a hospital for treatment,
-Treatment of which is difficult to treat when there are no mushrooms left-over for identification.

GG


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: zeronio]
    #1655686 - 06/23/03 09:19 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: 121212]
    #1655691 - 06/23/03 09:22 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

You didn't mention habitat (were they growing on wood, the ground, ...?), which is important.

Overall, thinking of dangerous mushrooms, your description potentially fits two kinds.

Galerina includes species such as Galerina autumnalis which contains amatoxins. They are normally found growing on wood or wood debris. There have been fatalities due to them. They cause liver failure. Symptoms normally appear 8-24 hours after ingestion, and include nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain.

Cortinarius includes species such as Cortinarius orellanus which contains orellanine. Most of these species grow on the ground in association with trees. They have caused numerous fatalities in Europe. The cause of death is kidney failure. Symptoms occur more at least 12 hours after ingestion (average is 8 days, up to 21 days). The main symptoms to watch for are excessive urination and thirst.

Of the two, your description is closer to the Galerinas.

If they get sick, they need to seek medical attention. Survival rates increase dramatically if doctors provide treatment.

Since it's more that 4 hours, there is no immediate treatment. They just get to wait and hope that none of those symptoms show up.


So is this going to be the "everybody stupid eats unknown mushrooms" week? Last week was Lepiota week.


--------------------
Happy mushrooming!


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: zeronio]
    #1655694 - 06/23/03 09:24 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

If they were growing in woods then they could have been any of these two species. I really hope that wasn't the case.
Try to get them!


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: ToxicMan]
    #1655703 - 06/23/03 09:29 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

So is this going to be the "everybody stupid eats unknown mushrooms" week? Last week was Lepiota week.




Jeez, they should go to ER for stomach pumping even if they're OK. Just to remember for the next time.


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Offline121212
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: zeronio]
    #1655740 - 06/23/03 09:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The reason i didn't think they were galerinas is firstly the thin stem and secondly no annular ring. I was thinking them of getting them to go to a local patch that has a wide variety of shrooms to see if they can find the same species they ate. Many seem to think that if they have had no sign of sickness yet they SHOULD be fine... can anyone verify this.

Thankyou again
Peace


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: 121212]
    #1655928 - 06/23/03 03:33 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

121212 said:
Many seem to think that if they have had no sign of sickness yet they SHOULD be fine... can anyone verify this.




That's not necessarily true. Like ToxicMan said they may not show signs of sickness for 8-24 hours after injestion. Your last reply was only an hour after the inital post. There is still a chance that they are not in the clear.


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OfflineGorian
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: Gumby]
    #1655964 - 06/23/03 03:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Honestly , i'd go have that checked out now , i wouldn't wait since there is no signs there's a chance it could be very poisonous so i'd go have that checked asap
Edit-You should try and go pick at the same spot and get some pictures up so we can identify it better


--------------------


Edited by Gorian (06/23/03 03:53 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: Gumby]
    #1656343 - 06/23/03 06:28 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

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Offline121212
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: ]
    #1656893 - 06/23/03 10:34 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well it's nearly been 24 hours and there is no sign of them being sick... i've been showing them photo's but nothing which they've said was them. It isn't possible to go back to the spot (no transport) however hopefully i can ake them to spot tommorow with a huge variety of shrooms. From what she tells me the caps were very dark/ copper brown... much darker than subs.


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Anonymous

Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: 121212]
    #1656900 - 06/23/03 10:36 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: ]
    #1657296 - 06/24/03 01:00 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Me thinks it was some random species of Conocybe due to the caps and gills being the same color. The weak stems just adds to it.


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Anonymous

Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: Gumby]
    #1658033 - 06/24/03 10:05 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

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Offline121212
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: ]
    #1660478 - 06/25/03 04:18 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well it's been 48 hours and none of the four friends are showing any sickness which is a good sign.  I actually took them for a quick hunt today to see if they could spot the species but they didn't.  I did however show one friend a Strophoria Auranticia (a more browner then red one) and she said it looked exactly like ones she ate except the stem was thinner.  Anyway thanks to everyone for the info and i'll write back if there are any signs of sickness :smile:



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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: 121212]
    #1660706 - 06/25/03 06:35 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Stropharia Aurantiaca (Hypholoma Aurantiaca) is regarded as mildly poisonous...
The Gallerina in Australia have a cap colour identical to subaeruginosa - even being hydrophanous, but if there was no annular ring, Id assume that they may not have been Gallerina.
I have Gallerina right now all through my garden.


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OfflineHardicus
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #1668110 - 06/27/03 10:46 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

bluemeanie - I showed them pix of galerinas and they gave me a negative, and considering they're still alive, looks like things are ok.

*phew*


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InvisibleBoppity604
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Re: URGENT: STUPID FRIENDS MUSHROOM INJESTION! Melbourne, Au [Re: Hardicus]
    #1668153 - 06/27/03 11:29 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

They should still go to their doctors and get blood work and a liver panel done just to be safe...ignorance brings with it a heavy price...but better to pay for some blood work and liver tests before it's too late. Just my thoughts.

Love & Light,

Boppity


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