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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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Trichocereus Identification please
    #16427442 -

These were sold in the same cactus nursery as T. peruvianus, but i just saw one in a thread that looks identical and karode said it was cuzcoensis... I really hope they aren't but i wont be too upset if they are i'll just let them grow. If they are cuzcoensis then i need to start some peruvianus from seed i dont have any others


Also i thought i'd throw this in here i will post pics of the flower in the flowers thread when they appear, these buds have been slowly growing for about 3 weeks it will probably be a while before they flower. It's a PC pachanoi like i assumed they are all over this city


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Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything.
—Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #16427513 -

From my growing interest in IDing cacti, you can tell that they are from cuzcoensis the color of the spines. And with a long time member like karode13 giving that ID I would agree blindly.



spines are thicker at the base and darker colored towards the base, usually yellow, accompanied by a few smaller but still large spines of the same type. Becoming whitish with age.

They are from Peru so the nursery people were not completely wrong. I may be wrong but I also think I read somewhere that cuzcoensis are a variation of T. peruvianus but don't take my word. T. peruvianus var. cuzcoensis ?

Edited by modern.shaman (06/23/12 09:15 PM)

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: modern.shaman]
    #16427587 -

damn i thought they were kk242 peruvianus but trouts notes has all black and white pics and many pages on cuzcoensis and peruvianus so there are many that look alike which i'm sure makse them easy to mislabel.:frown: o well they still look great but the only adult trichos i have now are Pc pachanoi, candicans and tercheckii besides these, lots of macrogonus and brigesii seedlings though. Btw karode didn't I.D these he said the one in this post was cuzco


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Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything.
—Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #16427601 -

I believe I'm correct in this ID but you should always wait for an older more experienced member to ID it first. I do like the look of new growth on the cuzcoensis, love the spines color.


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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: modern.shaman]
    #16427616 -

i certainly will wait there should be more posts tomorrow i imagine, i really like the cactus as a whole much more attractive than pachanoi IMO


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Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything.
—Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #16427793 -

Chemical Addiction said:
i certainly will wait there should be more posts tomorrow i imagine, i really like the cactus as a whole much more attractive than pachanoi IMO



Hi there...

This business of a T.cuzcoensis is a lot more complicated than that. There is a school of thought that says that all KK242 long spined cacti are cuzcoensis. KK242 designates a location (Matucana, Peru),and a particular elevation of that area. Many different species were collected from that area and there is not a single example of KK242 as you see some people use it around here.

If you truly want to educate yourself on these cacti that you have, I suggest that you go to this link for a thorough discussion on the taxonomic origins of cuzcoensis:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5941

Good luck to you and I will be waiting to see your photos of your pachs in flower!   :sunny:


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The government which governs least, governs best...

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Nativenglish]
    #16427911 -

thanks for the link native it certainly was an interesting read
Quote:
The idea that all long spined 242 are the same species seems dubious, it seems wrong to assume that any long spined form of KK242 is cuzcoensis.


After looking though other peoples posts on this subject most of the ID'ers determine its a cuzco mainly on how much the color of the spines change leading me too believe they are cuzco. I realize this isn't the best way as there are other characteristics to look for but it seems to be the general consensus. There is a lot of confusion between the species though according to that link i wonder if misidentification is the main reason for missing information, i like the questions trucha asks he gets pretty good answers from the info available


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Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything.
—Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #16427954 -

I would be very interested to know how your cacti taste...

Take a nick out of one with a sharp, sterile blade and taste it. If it has that characteristic bitter flavor, you probably have active cacti whatever they are...


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The government which governs least, governs best...

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Nativenglish]
    #16428034 -

nowhere near as nasty as pachanoi kind of tastes like nasty water i'm not sure how to describe it but not as revolting as pachanoi. I chewed on a piece of a rib btw. i've got to get up early for work tomorrow but i will check in before i leave thanks guys i'd rather hear disappointing news than spread misinformation by having the wrong name


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Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything.
—Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #16429583 -

I can't say for sure what that trichocereus is cause possibilty of hybrids..:wink:

If you say the nursey sold these as t. peruvianus -cactus. There is possibility that its hybrid too. I mean peruvianus x some trichocereus(like pachanoi, bridgesii, etc...)

I have noticed that many same species of cactis looks very different and if you get cactis from nurseries there is possibility that they have buyed or cultivated the cactus as a name as it have been said. Nowdays it's not impossible that many nurseries sells hybrid trichocereus as t. peruvianus, bridgesii and pachanoi... Or they just are different look genus.

Cause trichocereuses are so popular and nurseries sell them as labeled to some known trichocereus species. It's not rare that nurseries sells hybrids as labeled to some more popular known trichocereus cactus.:smirk:

I really belive that cause trichocereus cultivation is huge and there are many variants sold all over the world and every species grows in same greenhouse so there is possibility that when someone who grow cactis, germinate their own seeds what have collected exapmle from t. peruvianus, they sell the seedlings too as t. peruvianus but possibility fro that the cactus is hybrid is there too..

If nurseries buy lots of trichos to sell them, they label them as they have buyed it but it can be hybrid and nurseries who sell cactis doesn't even know it, or do anyone know it exacly is the trichocereus really hybrid or not.

There are lots of trichocereus hybrids sold as more common trichocereus names almost in every cactus nursery. Hybrids can grow even in nature too, if exaple t. pachanoi got pollen t. peruvianus/bridgesii to flowers. That's not impossible even in the wild that hybrids growns in nature too.

And my opinion is that the more likely cactus nurseries can easily sell hybrids as labeled to some familiar trichocereus and even cultivar doesn't really know is it random hybrid what have features to some well known trichocereus species.


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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: intelligentlife]
    #16429603 -

That is not theory, it is fact. Just like with anything else, it is best to know your source, and buy from trusted knowledgeable people. Also, educate yourself.


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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Chemical Addiction]
    #16430306 -

1-4,6: Pretty standard cuzcoensis.
5: Interesting. Not necessarily cuzcoensis. I'd need more pictures particularly of the tip.

7-8: Yup. PC pachanoi. Good call.

Yeah, cuzcoid plants are very handsome. I hope we get some more hybrids with them. I've been growing a few and I love how some of the seedlings I've selected look. They are some sexy ass spiky ginger motherfuckers.

Bitter or not bitter does not mean much in terms of activity. If you want to know for sure you'll have to prepare a brew and try it. I'd love to see more reports of material we call cuzcoid...


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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: naum]
    #16430727 -

Heres the top of #5

Here's another i bought at the same time as #5 all of these came from the same spot at the nursury however the others i've had much longer.

This stock i bought the same time as the rest of the cuzcoids but has completely different thorns.

Thanks all for the input i really hope the others turn out to be peruvianus or at least mostly peruvianus hybrids. As for the alkaloid content i can do an extraction from the cuzcoids and use the same amount of pc pachanoi and do another extraction to see roughly how much mescaline is in the cuzcos. I realize it varies from plant to plant but i've done 8 extracions from pc pachanoi and they dont have much in them from my experience, would be a good comparison i think. I will of course clean up the final product to remove as many other alkaloids as possible, but this experiement is on hold for a few months til the pups grow more i dont want to chop the main columns they're too damn good looking.


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Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything.
—Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: naum]
    #16430850 -

naum said:
Bitter or not bitter does not mean much in terms of activity.



While I certainly have great respect for your immense knowledge concerning cacti, Trout, I think, would differ with you on this point. This quote is from Trout's Notes on Cactus Chemistry by Species:

"One test I suggest is that the bitterness of the flesh should be tested. All active specimens I am aware of have some degree of bitterness, and in many cases the more active ones seem to have more bitterness as well as a certain taste to that bitterness. "

Not to be contentious, but as my own experience is admittedly scarce, I often have to rely on the printed word.


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The government which governs least, governs best...

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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: Nativenglish]
    #16430949 -

Trout's work is largely outdated at this point unfortunately. There are several clones which do no exhibit much biterness that are very active and some that are very bitter that have almost no activity. Almost all alkaloids are bitter and mescaline cannot be differentiated from other non-active alkaloids on taste alone.

PC pachanoi is an example of a fairly bitter cactus with only minimal activity.


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Let's upgrade our security practices and move toward client-side PGP for encrypted PMs.
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Re: Trichocereus Identification please [Re: naum]
    #16433693 -

If you talking about taste of cactus flesh and activity of beverage/flesh...

..IMO it's totally different factor with trichocereus cactis.

When I am curious about medicine content of cactus. I cut 12-14inch of cactus and test it my self. If it's active, its ok. If its not or less activity, it is not so active. Its only good way to know the potential medicine content of cactus.

Most powerfull san pedro I have taken, seems it doesn't even have that outer dark green layer at all, but littlebit dark green everywhere,exept core..:rolleyes: Some other san pedros I have taken have lots of that dark green outer flesh. but they have turned to be less active as a medicine, so even that doesn't tell is the cactus good for experience the medicine.

If the point of this thread is to know do cactus is active and contains medicines, only way to know is make the beverage from it to know is there any magic and medicine in the cactus. :tongue2:

If it's hybrid and have activity on it, the experience can be different.

OT:
I have got many different experiences from different san pedros too. I think the mixture of the chemicals with mesc makes the different magic experiences of the cactus.

Cause there are so less study material of different phenethylamines with mesc too it's hard to know is there more active chemicals in cactus than mesc. Cause something makes different variants of cactus to make different experiences and I think it's cause of mixture of phenethylamines and other chemicals in the plant what makes the total experience of cactus.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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