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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #15935415 -

If you only use benzos every once in a while, you should be fine. It's regular, long term use of them that will really mess with you.

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #15935466 -

This is slightly off topic, but, does anyone know what happens when a person with psychosis takes psychedelics?  Is it no different than the effects on someone without psychosis, less of an effect, more of an effect, etc?  Would using psychedelics enhance any of their psychosis permanently, or are the effects only short term?


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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: psychotropicwhale]
    #15935633 -

there could be a wide variety of effects. and it also depends on the severity of there "psychosis". psychedelics could be for the better but could also not be so good i presume


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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: psychotropicwhale]
    #15935641 -

It made my delusions and paranoia worse. YMMV though, although I don't recommend their use to those who suffer from a psychosis.

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: hidenseek] * 1
    #15936293 -

the so called "theory" behind schizophrenia is based on a perverted Meth addict psychosis model that is close to 50 years old, fucking retards they are... at the very least schizophrenia is actually a physical condition that mimics pellegra.  i say mimic because the individual develops an inability to use specific cofactors based on an inherited predisposition that occurs at specific points in an individuals life most times but it can occur earlier or later in life.  but there is a great chance there are other underlying issues that allopathic MD's are COMPLETELY unable to treat because they don't even accept the possibility that they are even a fucking possibility due to the fact they can't put two and two together most times and are stuck in a give them a pill mode due tro poor training out of the gate...  when you have the pharmaceutical industry paying for/underwriting medical research, you have to suspect the results may be slanted to a pill cure.... CURE????  fuck cure!!!!  let's just mask symptoms and allow the underlying issues to remain firmly in place and in the process create new symptoms due to drug reactions or the natural progression of the underlying pathology!!!!  yeah!!! give them pills!!!! and some people here just dig their fucking pills!!!! it's easy to remain a fat fuck or psychotic or diabetic then follow a strict protocol that forbids eating twinkies!!!! fuck man, i need my twinkies!!! i'd rather pop a fucking pill then work hard and endure some bullshit, as if the bullshit they are dealing with isn't serious enough to truly motivate them... this is the pub right???? i can get awya with saying this shit right???? fuck, i've proved that heart disease and cancer can be reversed/cured already to members of this forum so i'm not going to try and waste my time trying to convince fucking imbeciles who know it all...  i can get away with saying fucking imbeciles without the fear of getting banned or shit right? i mean this is the fucking Pub like i asked or are there rules here toooooo for certain people? do these mods have pet posters too?  there's clearly double standards for people here based on who likes who, but i'm grateful because by normal standards I'd be banned for like ever and ever based on points others have been given the complete boot for... i tried to be a good member to this board and offer honest advice based on not only what i've read but many times based on my own two eyes and others stories when it didn't directly involve me. 

this shit is real medicine and the father of this branch of medicine proved himself in the eyes of science before he ever developed these protocols...  Linus Pauling not only won the Nobel prize in chemistry, he also won it for world PeaCe!!! go fucking figure that a guy who developed protocols that actually HEALED serious medical conditions would be awarded the Nobel prize for PeaCe!!!! hashahaha!!@!!!@!!@!!  but they'll suck down pills and completely ignore the body's innate ability to heal itself if given the right tools to do so... let's completely ignore BILLIONS of years of evolution and rely on a perverted science model that the APA is... I mean really is... Fucking Neuro monsters!!! you know what i want to see? some fucking rule that requires a psychiatrist or researcher to use the meds they are going to prescribe for 6 months so they have a good feel for how badly they are tripping people over and i fucking guarantee you they'd NEVER prescribe that shit to anyone...  I'm being fucking serious here.... i mean what's the big deal???  i'm only talking 6 months here so they get a good feel for the brain dead... it's the brain dead that "subdues" psychosis not balancing a chemical imbalance that never really existed probably... how about insulin signalling problems of the brain cells themselves? OHH SHIT!!!! the fucking drugs exacerbate insulin signaling in their body so it can only be assumed the same thing can occur in the brain!!!  ohh but wait a minute!!!! i can't assume that!!! i need proof before i can condemn their meth addict model of psychosis!!! let's completely ignore imaging results of 20-30 years ago when the technology demonstrated that areas of the brain weren't using glucose properly and give them a pill instead!!! fuck you fuck you fuck you!!! i love the PUB!!! i'm gonna start hanging here if i come back to the double standards

modern psychiatry is one single step ahead of blood letting and i say this with authority to such a high degree, QUACK SCIENCE AT BEST!!! and wait until you see the upcoming DSM-V!!!  awesome shit it's gonna be too... yeah, serious mental health issues like "shyness" are finally going to be addressed!!! YEAH!!!!!!!!! we've got a pill for shyness now!!!!  it's probably going to be paxil or a perverted analog... some new pill, some new happy pill!!! i say fuck you to anyone who supports psychiatry, you can suck my nut sack and i can only hope that one day you need to rely on a prescription or two so you feel fulfilled because on top of your own physical illnesses you'll have the pleasure of being chemically lobotomized which may be a good thing for the rest of us because then we won't have to listen to the they know what they're doing bullshit or they know whats best for you...  i put a fucking 3 hour documentary up with facts regarding the pharmaceutical industry naming names and showing pictures of individuals who were so morally bankrupt they got caught hiding millions by the IRS... now if these cock suckers got caught just imagine who got away with it!?!?!


THE PUB...  i can get away with this shit right? or was this some other forum? and i'm finally going to get the fucking boot!!! fuck this and fuck psychiatry and the pharmaceuticals right up the ass!!! :flowstone:


Kensho :psychsplit: :aliendance:
Is Modern Psychiatry actually a valid science or is it the QUACK SCIENCE MOST INTEGRATIVE/ALTERNATIVE MD's SEE IT AS?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 03/12/12 03:10 AM until the end of time
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll


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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: psychotropicwhale]
    #15936391 -

psychotropicwhale said:
This is slightly off topic, but, does anyone know what happens when a person with psychosis takes psychedelics?  Is it no different than the effects on someone without psychosis, less of an effect, more of an effect, etc?  Would using psychedelics enhance any of their psychosis permanently, or are the effects only short term?


i guess the results can vary but my personal experience was extremely positive although many psychiatric drugs block the effects due to receptor competition... my first experience returning is in trip reports under "mental illness and my return to the mushroom' or something along those lines, it's been awhile... i did an eighth and i know plenty of schizo's who smoke marijuana every single day and are generally unmedicated and doing quite well for themselves...  you'd be shocked how well a schizophrenic can do when they are merely eating well and not abusing alcohol or abstaining from it altogether.  i had quite a bit of experience in the past as far as experimenting with hallucinogens but I'd probably recommend an extremely low dose at first in retrospect and i would definitely have an experienced sitter present but men like stanislav grof used lsd and psilocybin with people who experienced psychosis quite successfully because there is a psychological component to psychosis also meaning the subconscious program you're running regarding self image and societal pressures can play a real role in the experience, which is why i tell even the so called "normal" to never go into a trip in a negative headspace unless you are experienced because there is a very good chance that this will be your experience which is not cool for anyone let alone those with a psychotic predisposition... the irony lies in the fact that someone can really gain some serious insight into it all, like i did... my experience on an eighth was powerfully positive and i realize what i'm putting out there is extremely controversial to say the least which is why i qualify it by saying a low dose and sitter are imperative the first go around and the setting is critical as it should always be in my opinion or the inexperienced... i spent about an hour and a half in a busy mall my first time out of the gate in years and i have to be honest i was a little worried once i dosed that my wife would have to call an ambulance but as soon as i felt the come one it became something quite beautiful almost immediately, i'm not sure if you can relate, but i honestly believe there is real therapeutic possibilities in that compound...

why did nature allow an obscure mushroom to interact with a particular receptor in our brains? why do people who have never used before but became willing participants walk away from these modern day studies profoundly changed? there is something very deep regarding this compound in particular... it is completely unlike LSD in so many ways... it is a natural molecule that has evolved right along side of us over billions of years and it is healing brains of anxiety, OCD and depression... who knows what the real possibilities are...

K~~~ :psychsplit:

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: cateyes]
    #15936516 -

Thanks brother.  I have no doubt that a good diet and healthy lifestyle can do wonders.


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Edited by psychotropicwhale (03/12/12 10:53 AM)

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: cateyes]
    #15936664 -

Kensho, you seem to have a very strong outspoken opinion about this. As long as you abstain from attacking posters with the same vigilance you should be good to voice them.


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: Asante]
    #15936809 -

I was once diagnosed paranoid schizo after a week long acid binge.  I was put on Abilify, Lithium, and some other medication...absolutely awful side-effects and I couldn't think straight once the "brain dead" kicked in.  The worst part about it is that the meds did not really calm the paranoid thoughts, just made me too brain dead to do anything about it.  I quit all those meds first chance I got cold turkey because I'm not a fan of the pharmaceutical industry.  I self-medicated with weed quite a bit afterwords for a few months but ultimately Cateyes is absolutely right, a healthier lifestyle helped me overcome my "disorder" that I should have "medicated indefinitely."


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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: Asante]
    #15936896 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Kensho, you seem to have a very strong outspoken opinion about this. As long as you abstain from attacking posters with the same vigilance you should be good to voice them.


whats youe opinion on this? it seemed before you were just quoting a medical opinion without putting your $0.02 in.

are you for or against these substances? unopinionated? or just havnt done enough research to refrain from putting in your own thought in incase of leading someone astray?

my think my problem is im stateing my opinion without enough reasearch for what works. but i do know from literature , and experience medicated schizophrenics do relapse with greater intensity over time

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: hidenseek]
    #15936951 -

I think one of the major factors to consider is disease severity.  Unfortunately, there isn't a good way to "quantitate" schizophrenia severity, as the diagnosis is (currently) based on behavioral symptoms.

However, for severe schizophrenia, antipsychotics probably offer a good teatment response, and this response persists for long duration.  There are several metaanalyses that indicate the efficacy of antipsychotics are greater than placebo, even when given over an extended period of time.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: Le_Canard]
    #15937000 -

Led Zeppelin said:
hidenseek said:
im quitting ssri's because of this book, these drugs cause more problems then they solve

it talks about ssri's ,anti-phychotics and benzos, and how they actually wire the brain for the worse


ellaborate more on the benzos part...

I dont want my brain to be fucked lol I only use benzos every once in a while though


ToiletDuk said:
If you only use benzos every once in a while, you should be fine. It's regular, long term use of them that will really mess with you.


this pretty much, i dont really remember alot about the benzo part of the book, but the studies were for people taking everyday long term medically,not once a while recreationaly  the worse part seemed to be withdrawls, which are so persistent(year lately still full effect withdrawl) for some people that they have to take them for life, and that if your prescribed them for anxiety and relaxation(which vallium was "invented for")  the effects only last a few weeks, then the anxiety returns with a vengeance. is when doctors may up your dosegae or prescribe more a day, rather then ween people off them

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: trANce]
    #15937070 -

trANce said:
i would not say im a schitzophrenic. but i probably do have some type of schitzo disorder. i do not hallucinate or hear things and shit like that. but i am trully MAD.


you should investigate the possibility of bipolar disorder.  until manic depression was well understood, a lot of people that were diagnosed with schizoprenia were actually people having psychotic manic or depressive episodes of behavior. 

I would swear on holy tomes that I was acting perfectly normal and my ex wife would tell me that I looked and acted
`
like I was insane.  And the police and my friends agreed with her.


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #15937072 -

then what they put you on lithium?

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: RealRollForever]
    #15937085 -

RealRollForever said:
I was once diagnosed paranoid schizo after a week long acid binge.


That's bad ass.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: s240779]
    #15937201 -

Haha it was quite a break from reality, I almost preferred it.  Managed to not get arrested too :sploosh: haha wassup BITCHES
Unfortunately I had to learn the hard way it is hard to stay functional when you're eating psychedelics like they're candy.


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Edited by RealRollForever (03/12/12 11:24 AM)

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: hidenseek]
    #15937268 -

which time?


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: hidenseek]
    #15937919 -

What I remember reading about when I was on Thorazine is that long term use of a serotonin antagonist can result in more serotonin production requiring the use of more antipsychotics (Risperdal, Seroquel, Abilify, Trilafon) and other medications to slow down the excess serotonin production.

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: SheerTerror]
    #15938076 -

Last I heard, Wired Magazine (I think it was them) ran an article that brought up the cutting-edge new theories about schizophrenia, and how it was an actual retrovirus embedded in our DNA.

Which would indicate that either psychotic breaks from psychedelic use and schizophrenia are markedly different disorders, or that heavy psychedelic use can actually alter gene expression enough to cause the activation of the virus.

:strokebeard:


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:smoking:

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Re: are anti-psychotics detrimental to schizophrenia recovery? [Re: Meteloides]
    #15938120 -

whats really strange about some of these, like trazodone, if i take a high dose, and wake up in the middle of the night, ill be getting visuals like im tripping balls, shit breathing, colors, all kinds of shit.

I also get really good CEV's when i use riseridal, bolts of green, blue, purple lightning...

Seems that if you ever took LSD before, risperidal will give you these CEV's when you take it......:awesomenod:

"The atypical antipsychotic Risperidone is reported to worsen symptoms of HPPD during the drug's duration in some people.[14][15]"

agreed...( quote from wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_perception_disorder )


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:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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