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OfflineBladeLSD
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 801
Last seen: 2 months, 10 days
Spore Bacterial Infection?
    #1557782 - 05/18/03 02:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Afriend of mine made up a batch of syringes, 7 to be exact, and shared 3 of them with a girl, My friend innoculated 12 jars with one syringe and so far 5 have survived she on the other had used 3 syringes for 6 jars, and all of hers have contamned or stalled, anyways she says the spores have a bacterial infection which ive never heard of, and that even though the surviving jars look healthy they are contamned. IVe never heard of a bacterial infection, these spores where made from a spore print and my friend tried to spread out the print as much as possible (making 7 syringes) as to avoid contamns. Personally I think the fact that she used 3 syringes for 6 jars is why none of her jars survived, and my friend using only 1 syringe for 12 is why 5 of my friends survived. Anyways has anyone heard of a spore bacterial infection or is she just blowing it out her ass?


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We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (05/21/03 10:50 AM)


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Invisiblemicro
bunbun has a gungun
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Registered: 05/09/03
Posts: 7,532
Loc: Brick City
Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1557792 - 05/18/03 03:04 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

There may be bacteria in the print, which causes an infection after inoculation. How long did it take for the jars to go bad? Did they all go bad with the same thing?

Yes -- the more liquid you use the more chance of contamination unless you are sure it's 100% sterile.

--
Micro


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Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Registered: 08/25/00
Posts: 801
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: micro]
    #1557797 - 05/18/03 03:07 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (05/20/03 12:49 AM)


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OfflineMykeOfile
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Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1557811 - 05/18/03 03:16 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

yo, uve already expressed u respect for my opion and all, but theres this book u might of heard of called The Mushroom Cutivator, and i believe the authors a pretty excepted expert, and says that the spores themselves can be a source of contamination, btw, not everybodies has been on this board as long as theyve had this hobby, no need to be an ass and gett all high and mighty(but lets not blow up the thread, if that pisses u off, u can pm me)


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u know it aint funny when u aint got no money and the clock strikes 420 and u wanna get high
~Kottonmouth Kings


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: MykeOfile]
    #1557859 - 05/18/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (05/20/03 12:50 AM)


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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1557869 - 05/18/03 04:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Understandable, but I'm no newbie. Just haven't been on the Shroomery for that long.

I wouldn't make anything up, however. There is such thing as peer review.

Next time if you only want people to answer who have been here for a while you should put it in your post so I don't waste my time.

--
Micro


--------------------
Any research paper or book for free
(Avatar is Maxxy, a character by Mizzyam, RIP)


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OfflineRustik
Where am I?

Registered: 04/18/03
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: micro]
    #1557933 - 05/18/03 04:41 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Sounds like the syringes were contaminated.

Bacterial contamination results in a foul odor (do NOT take a whiff of your jars, if you must smell them then slightly open the lid a 'waft' some air from the lid in your direction.) If it smells like rotten apples/smelly feet, it's probably bacterial. Bacterial contaminations aren't always obvious, but you may notices slowed/stalled growth followed by a milky tan colored liquid forming in the bottoms of your jars.

Quote:

yo, uve already expressed u respect for my opion and all, but theres this book u might of heard of called The Mushroom Cutivator, and i believe the authors a pretty excepted expert, and says that the spores themselves can be a source of contamination, btw, not everybodies has been on this board as long as theyve had this hobby, no need to be an ass and gett all high and mighty(but lets not blow up the thread, if that pisses u off, u can pm me)




TMC is a very good book, and yes, the writer and contributors are very well respected individuals. However, I think you may have misconstrued the information. Spores themselves can NOT be a source of infection (so long as they are completely isolated). Spore syringes can contain contaminants (including molds/yeast/competitive fungi/bacteria), as can spore prints. P. cubensis spores cannot contaminate themselves.

The exact answer to your question is this: The spores, which are very tiny, cannot be infected by a bacterium themselves. There may have been bacteria in the solution they were in (inside the syringe), but you cannot infect a spore with bacteria.


--------------------

The blue... the blue!!!


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Registered: 08/25/00
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: micro]
    #1557945 - 05/18/03 04:45 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (05/20/03 12:50 AM)


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1557989 - 05/18/03 05:04 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

There are several variables where a clean syringe can GO WRONG.

First, the syringe may carry a contam.

A contam can be introduced during innoc procedures.

Content of jar may not be sterile, leading to contam's germinating in it.

To much spore solution in any jar can overload the moisture content of the jar, leading to a bacteria like contam.

The list goes on & on.......what may be wrong.

6T  :wink:


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineMykeOfile
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Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1557995 - 05/18/03 05:07 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

to quote from pg 23 of TMC, "A spore print carelessly taken or stored can easily become contaminated" and if u look on pg 28 there is a pic of P.Cubensis spores that are infected with rod shaped bacteria, how can one misconstrue that?!?....(and TMC is the bible, i was being sarcastic)


--------------------
u know it aint funny when u aint got no money and the clock strikes 420 and u wanna get high
~Kottonmouth Kings


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Registered: 08/25/00
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: MykeOfile]
    #1558019 - 05/18/03 05:18 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

You said, and I qoute "spores THEMSELVES can be a source of contamination", Your statement seems to suggest that cubenis spores themselves can be a source for contamination, plainly put that is a miscontrued statement. There is a difference between a spore print which has become contaminated, and spores themselves being a source for contamination. You proved it yourself with your qoute.


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (05/18/03 05:23 PM)


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OfflineMykeOfile
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Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1558041 - 05/18/03 05:27 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

ok, now we're gettin picky, i did not say that the spores were the contamination, but the source, as in where it came from, obviously a mushroom spore is not going to itself grow into bacteria or mold or ne thing other than mushroom fungus, but if the spores are infected with bacteria(as in figure 29 on pg28 of TMC), then that is the source of ur contamination,


--------------------
u know it aint funny when u aint got no money and the clock strikes 420 and u wanna get high
~Kottonmouth Kings


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Registered: 08/25/00
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: MykeOfile]
    #1558048 - 05/18/03 05:31 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

but that was not the question my question was Can spores (meaning spores themselves, not spore prints, this doesnt need to be clarified because if I meant spore prints i would have said spore prints) get a bacterial infection?, How is this picky, that was the question just because you chose to answer a different question doesnt mean im getting picky...Spores cannot be the source for contamination once again spores & spore prints are two different terms, you seem to think they are one in the same. As Rustik said spores themselves cannot become infected by bacterium,THAT was the question, and he answered it.And you did say spores themselves can be a source for contamination, just scroll up.


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (05/18/03 05:36 PM)


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OfflineMykeOfile
stranger thanmost
Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1558064 - 05/18/03 05:40 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

OMG, dog a spore print is nothing but the spore that have fallen out of a mushroom, if it gets infected then guess what , u have infected spore, and yes i did say the spores can be ur source of contamination, if 6T give u some info, 6T is not ur info he is ur source for that in for, if u touch ur substrate with a dirty fork then the dirty fork is not ur contamination, it is ur source of contams, if u inject infected spores into ur jars then the spores themselves are the source(WHERE IT CAME FROM) of ur contams, u just like tellin folks theyre wrong dont u


--------------------
u know it aint funny when u aint got no money and the clock strikes 420 and u wanna get high
~Kottonmouth Kings


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Registered: 08/25/00
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: MykeOfile]
    #1558085 - 05/18/03 05:50 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

and im not talking about spore prints im talking about spores, not the collective spores which make up a print, but the spores themselves on an individual level, you are just missing the point completly my question was can spores themselves become infected with bacteria, how simple is that, I know unwanted spores can find their way onto spore prints, but that was not the question, My question was can spores get a bacterial infection meaning the spores on an individual level become contaminated, that was my question. Its not hard to comprehend a questioin for its wording. If spores could become infected with a bacteria, then the spores themselves could be the source of a contamination, but since they cant the only source for the contamination is unwanted spores. If I inject spores into a jar, the spores are not my source for contamination, the invader spores are the source of the contamination the mushroom spores dont affect it. Because the contamination doesnt come from the spores it comes from the invader spores.

if spore prints give u some spores, then spore prints are not ur spores they are ur source for those spores if spore prints become infected then the print has invader spores on it, that does not mean the spores are infected.



--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (05/18/03 05:57 PM)


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OfflineWahoo
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1558098 - 05/18/03 05:56 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

For probably the 5th time in this thread: YES, spores can become infected by bacteria. Allow me to quote from the book of Stamets, chapter 2
Quote:

The greatest danger of doing concentrated multispore germinations is the increased possibility of contamination, especially from bacteria. Some bacteria parasitize the cell walls of the mycelium, while others stimulate spore germination only to be carried upon and to slowly digest the resulting mycelia. Hence, some strains are inherently unhealthy and tend to be associated with high percentage of contamination. These infected spores, increase the likelihood of disease spreading to neighboring spores when germination is attempted in such high numbers. (TMC, page 28)


He goes on to say that some fungi actually require another bacteria to be introduced into a culture before it will germinate.

Seriously, its a great resource book, no matter what your skill level.
ISBN: 0-9610798-0-0


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OfflineMykeOfile
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Registered: 04/30/03
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1558105 - 05/18/03 06:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

my answer to ur question is yes, the spores can get a bacterial infection on an individual level, according to THe Mushroom Cultivator,i think u do not seem to understand my answer, the pic i keep refering to shows a microscopic veiw of individual spores with rod shaped bacteria growing on the spores themselves,.........u can argue symantics with me all day but i phrased it that way b/c thats what the book says: "There are five primary SOURCES of contamination in mushroom culture work:
1)the external environment
2)the culture medium
3)THe culturing equipment
4)THe cultivator and his or her clothes
5)THe mushroom spores or the mycelium"


--------------------
u know it aint funny when u aint got no money and the clock strikes 420 and u wanna get high
~Kottonmouth Kings


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Registered: 08/25/00
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: MykeOfile]
    #1558127 - 05/18/03 06:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

If thats what you meant then thats what you should have said "A spore print carelessly taken or stored can easily become contaminated" That was your answer, but it was too the wrong question, you could argue semantics, or we could argue about your spelling, but its unnecessary since you dont seem to be able to make a very clear point. Also the picture doesnt seem to show spores being consumed by bacterium more like spores with bacterium.


--------------------
We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


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InvisibleArmFromTheAbyss
Old Hand

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 1,364
Loc: Down here in Babylon
Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: BladeLSD]
    #1558128 - 05/18/03 06:16 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Aight dude first off, there's no need for unnecessary bickering. Positive vibrations.

Second, I think the girl you mention in the original post was wrong to narrow it down to the spore print as the contam source. As 6t said, it could be a number of vectors of contamination. She couldn't know too much if she used 3 syringes for 6 jars. Thats excessive. Most likely, she was the source of contamination since your jars were fine. She meaning her doing all the procedures carelessly.


My question was can spores get a bacterial infection meaning the spores on an individual level become contaminated, that was my question.

It is not that likely for the actual spores to get infected by bacteria. Sure, there could be bacteria mixed in with the spores. But bacteria need h20 to germinate. I doubt the spores on the spore print would have any sort of bacterial germination. Inside the spore solution yes, maybe.

How long were these syringes sitting around?

Btw, it doesn't really matter how long you've been around here, it matters how much experience you have in cultivation.


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OfflineBladeLSD
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Registered: 08/25/00
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Re: Spore Bacterial infection? [Re: ArmFromTheAbyss]
    #1558134 - 05/18/03 06:22 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

My friend used his spores almost immedietly after making them from a print and allowing the jars too cool around the same times. she picked up her syringes a few days later.  Some of his jars survived.  As I said earlier I dont have a problem with new members especially the experienced ones who offer up their invaluable knowledge, but it seem most of the bs, invalid info comes from newer members who just read the FAQ, and are raring to give advice. anyways ive gotten off-topic.  Thanks for all the answers  :wink: 


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We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity :crazy:


Edited by BladeLSD (05/19/03 09:38 AM)


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