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Quantum Mechanics
    #15501168 -

I know the title's broad but I wanted it to be that way.

So I've heard a lot about quantum mechanics, and I find it infinitely fascinating; however, I'm afraid I don't know what is considered "good science" and what is "bad science" within quantum mechanics.

I've personally tried to understand the part of quantum mechanics that's not considered mumbo jumbo, but I'm not sure where that line really is. I know a lot of New Age things today use Quantum Mechanics to jump to unfounded conclusions so I get lost at what's really taken seriously by physicist and what's not. I guess I'm asking if anyone who has some background in physics could answer this. (Or just someone with a good understanding of it)

What are some of the philosophical implications that are taken seriously today in Quantum Mechanics? Rather than some things I've heard like Quantum Mechanics being a "new proof of God."


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Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: r72rock] * 1
    #15502104 -

.

Edited by DieCommie (11/14/16 06:48 PM)

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: DieCommie]
    #15504292 -

Wow, that's a lot of information! Thanks a lot! :cheers:

I pretty much spent like 3 hours lurking the PhysicsForum last night. :lol:

Speaking of What the Bleep, I found a website that broke down the movie by some of its fallacies. http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2005/06/30/2839498.htm

I thought that was pretty interesting.

With those Cophenhagen Interpretations that you linked, I think I have a much better idea of what's being presented, but not the full picture. I tried reading the HyperPhysics link that you gave but a lot of that was beyond me. Ultimately, I'm just a philosophy nerd trying to understand some of these weird quirks that Mathematics and Physics get into, and I'd love to get into these fields, but I'm not so hot at Math. I always feel since I have to have the math put into common language, I miss out on what's fully being said in these equations.

I'll keep lurkin' around and if I have anymore questions I'll report back here. I'll probably be doing that later tonight when I have more free time. I'm already having trouble understanding the EPR Paradox, but I feel I just have to read up on it more.

Thanks a bunch once again.


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Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: r72rock]
    #15504775 -

Quote:
I'm already having trouble understanding the EPR Paradox



Im not surprised, that is one of the most mind bending and fascinating aspects of quantum theory!

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: r72rock]
    #15507202 -

i don't know  what your background is in mathematics but if your looking to really understand it fundamental knowledge in order to fully grasp the foundations of quantum mechanics... you could understand some of the experiments though or the practical applications of examples in our lives... whoahhhhh. know i'm starting to sound new age...

about six months ago my sister asked me the same question you did and i honestly didn't have any answers for her... you see, she's a lit professor with very little math knowledge, and the some of the books i've read on some of it challenged the fuck out of me and i told her i really didn't have any solid suggestions but i told her to ask someone in the physics department... she thought that was a great idea and after checking out the physics staff decided to email an assistant professor, because they shared the same name... that's just the way my sister thinks to be honest, she's always been the that way, and so have i become in some ways, after experiencing some of the things i have... but i digress... two days later the women shows up at her office, with two gifts... a book called Mr. Tompkins in Paperback which turns out to be an updated version of "mr tomkins in wunderland"... it's written by george gamow... i looked into gamow... he was brilliant... he was played an important role in the success of the manhatten project... i found this in one reader review just awhile ago...

Quote:
Other Gamow titles: Biography of Physics, Atomic Energy [dedicated to the hope of lasting peace], Physics of the Strapless Evening Gown,...We are lucky that Dover has reprinted some of them. Gamow's list of scientific accomplishments includes a 1948 landmark paper on the origin of chemical elements, the Big Bang model, and later work with F. Crick on DNA and genetic coding.-- Do more Gamow editions, Dover!



i looked into him when the woman first suggested the book to my sister and found he's written tons of books and all received stellar amazon ratings... i do plan on reading some... the book is written from a literary perspective, it turns out the woman was a lit minor and when she discovered my sister was a lit professor, she wanted to give them to her personally... my sister returned the favor with a few of her favorite books and today their good friends... isn't it strange how the mechanics of the universe work?

the second was a book titled Quantum Mechanics in Simple Matrix Form written by thomas jordan... gamow's book made it easy for her to understand jordan's book which it even easier for her to understand others... i turned her onto michio kaku... you might not like kaku though, he's a theoretical physicist who isn't quiet spiritual but may come off as one to someone like yourself... to break it down he looks at it in these simple terms... the universe created the earth and the earth created us... this may come off too new age for some... kaku is the pioneer in string theory... many people believe string theory is fluffy nonsense, but they tend to be outside of physic's though they have some understanding of physics... people who think the tides effect the moon or instance, while others, including fishermen believe the moon and sun effect the tides... kaku spoke about an OBE, during an a radio interview... maybe that's what's swayed him... :shrug:


Michio Kaku on God


my sister has read several books by kaku already... he's a huge futurist though, that also tends to throw people off... kaku has a very popular program on the science channel...

Stephen Hawking on God


hawkings doesn't believe in a personal god or an afterlife... he's said this many times... but he seems to view the universe as something more though... maybe i've read more into that book...

i found this on leo kim's website...

“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.”~~~Carl Sagan don't confuse spirituality with a personal god, at least try not to...

i read leo kim's book Healing the Rift: Bridging the Gap Between Science and Spirituality and it was pretty interesting reading...

Quote:
About Leo Kim

Leo Kim is a scientist and biotechnology executive with over 50 scientific publications and patents. Leo’s journey includes research and management in chemistry, biochemistry, bioinformatics, biotechnology, information technology, molecular biology, microbiology, physics, and clinical trial studies. He has been active in new pharmaceutical and biotechnology disease treatment modalities as well as alternative medicine regimes. He studied with Deepak Chopra, Bernie Siegel, and many others who offer spiritual based supplements or alternatives to traditional healing. Leo has a Ph.D. in physical organic chemistry from the University of Kansas and continued his education as a research associate at MIT. Leo is a CEO and general partner in a biotechnology venture capital firm where he is tracking the progress of thousands of companies utilizing the latest developments in science.




Einstein on God


i love in the end when dawkins tries to include einstein among the athiest group when clearly he was a pantheist... at least to me he seems to be...

when i first joined Utube, i was actually looking for answers into cosmology and stumbled on this channel when i did my first search... i sub to about 140 channels, this channel was my first subscription...

Symphony of Science - 'Our Place in the Cosmos' (ft. Sagan, Dawkins, Kaku, Jastrow)~~~you might find it a bit corny though... i thought it was awesome because it made me think about the possibilities...



if you think you're above the two books i suggested, look into richard feynman, he used to teach at cal tech and won a noble prize... he was never hesitant to simply say i just don't know... it's interesting though that melodysheep included him in the above video, actually i take that back... i don't find it interesting at all...

the real sad part about the new age movement is the people who turn towards it are looking for something more then a personal god and get caught up in some guru's misapplication of cosmology... to me, all of the above men were cosmological evolutionists... at least they seem that way to me... buddhism or way back ancient hinduism may be able to be adaptive with science... even new age theories embrace science, but it's the belief that one can effect the properties of water or we are children of light that throw people a curve ball they're not willing to swing at... sitting on top of the airport vortex at 10 pm, opened my mind... and later when i discovered there may be as many as 200 billion other galaxies out there i had to ask myself what were the implications... is it possible that at least one other civilization exists? is it possible that they might have reached the stage of the evolution of early man a mere 10,000 tears ahead of us? think where we might be in 10,000 years if we hadn't gone and fucked our nest up... your ipod would be the size of a pea and we'd probably have new energy sources to toss only two possibilities out there... who the fuck knows, maybe we'd all be vegans! i'm far from a new age but i have to sadly admit this would be a much more peaceful place if new age replaced old age...

Kensho :psychsplit:

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: cateyes]
    #15507879 -

I'm certain I can master an understanding of gravity and unravel all the mysteries of the cosmos before I could comprehend what kind of thought process could produce a post like that.  I feel like there were so many variables I need an equation to decipher it.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #15508833 -

HagbardCeline said:
I'm certain I can master an understanding of gravity and unravel all the mysteries of the cosmos before I could comprehend what kind of thought process could produce a post like that.  I feel like there were so many variables I need an equation to decipher it.



there were only two two variables in my post and i tried to explain each one by giving examples... you had a hard time deciphering what i posted? that's the way i seem to think now and although i tend to be drawn out now when i present an idea, others seem to get me... i'm sorry i couldn't explain it any better for you in order for you to need  a whole separate equation in order to get it... but i'll try to summarize better...

i suggested two books that worked for my sister... they allowed her to understand things better then i seem to know now... one book built onto the next and so forth... sure, layman grasp physics concepts without a background in math, that's exactly where new age gets itself in trouble with and purists in physics take offense... they act as if their ideas are being twisted... maybe they're just being tweaked and physicists can't grasp newer concepts of physics... i'm not a physicist but i do have a background in math and i've read books that gave examples of the math used to support the theories/concepts and some flew right the fuck over my head... some people say they require a formula to understand physicists... that's pretty much one variable of mine covered, maybe i've let shit out, let me know...

the second variable point i was trying to make is there are some physicists who view area's of physics differently... maybe i should have aligned all the videos in order and not included the kim material... i included it because kim's site has sagans quote on home page... and after reading kim's book made it easier for me to understand these physicists and how science and religion can coexist let alone science and spiritually... is throwing that along with kim's bio, in order to demonstrate that an educated dude could see this a new variable? no, it's part of a sub... is this too tough a sub variable for an evil jesus to accept or does the idea repulse an evil jesus... like new age seems to repulse some physicists... and oh yeah, i forgot, i also suggested OP read feynman's books if they didn't buy into any of this... maybe i should have included that into my first variable but i thought it made more sense to present it in the second variable after presenting other views of cosmology...

maybe there is a third variable though, i mean i did include melodysheeps video, who is neither an new age proponent, fundamentalist or atheist... and my closing was part of this third variable... 200 billion other galaxies, that at least there has to be one advanced civilization out there(and even as an atheist, and i'm assuming you're an atheist, you should be able to accept the possibility  that there is other life out there, because if you don't, you're as ignorant as someone who believes in divine creation, a loving god... thinking that you're all there is in this universe... if you believe this your living squarely in the middle of a box with high sides and you can't see shit of what's going on outside...


was it the way i often include stories of life experiences, like my sister making a new friend? if you knew me, you'd know i tend to do that alot, that's just the way it is with me... i find my experiences pretty relevant at this stage of the game of my life... synchronicity plays a greater role at this stage of the game and i find that fucking fascinating... jung believed in synchronicity, i believed he coined the term... was he new age?

i read a handful of your posts, three to be exact... the name of the why i'm not tripping thread caught my eye... it's really the only posts i've read of yours to be honest... i see you have advanced mycology skills... you're able to cultivate mushrooms that have greater then normal hallucinogenic properties then others... did you share this tech with others? did you share it in the advanced mycology forum? that's a pretty significant discovery bro... this places you among the worlds most famous mycologists... and the tebow effect was classic.. i'm not really into sports any longer, i even gave up martial arts after becoming ill... maybe now i can return to it... but other then watching some hockey, lifting a bit and running every morning that's about it for me now... i read an article recently on tebow and this so called tebow effect... besides defying sports logic, which seems to throw people off, he's a hard core christian... always praising god, bible verses in eye black... hey man, good for him, if it works for him, so be it...

so Ok... maybe it wasn't only two variables, maybe it was three... three variable formulas exist in algebra's linear equation system and there are three possible solutions... one... none... and infinite... try to open your mind evil jesus...

does the thought process of this post require a new variable too? if it does, i'm not going to be able to expand on it any further... that's all i got...

Kensho :psychsplit:

Edited by cateyes (12/13/11 04:36 AM)

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: cateyes]
    #15511541 -

Do any of the books or videos you've recommended have a discourse on humor?

I ask because it would appear that you didn't grasp the concept in what I wrote, for this thread or the one about low-quality shrooms.

I called your post confusing because it was all over the place.  First there were so many tangents, then with the sentence fragments and ellipsis I quit trying to decipher it.  Why do you put ellipsis at the end of every thought?  You are essentially trying to explain scientific concepts through a compilation of text messages and unnecessary punctuation.  What do you have against capitalization and single periods?


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #15512558 -

HagbardCeline said:
What do you have against capitalization and single periods?



:shrug:

Kensho :psychsplit:

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: r72rock]
    #15512886 -

If you want to understand quantum mechanics, get a text on modern physics like that written by Eisberg & Resnick and study it cover to cover.  Next, get a copy of Townsends "a modern approach to quantum mechanics" and study it cover to cover.  Finally, get a copy of Sakuri's book, "modern quantum mechanics" and study and work all of the problems.  at this point, you will be able to understand the absolute fundamentals to learn about more advanced topics in quantum theory. An understanding in the language of physics (mathematics) up through PDE's will be required. This should keep you busy full time for at least a year and a half (unless you are already fluent in mathematics).

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: Fishermanj]
    #15518460 -

I could follow cateyes' post. :shrug:

Thanks a lot for the input everyone! I'm still reading, trying to understand some concepts so that I may be able to actually have a discussion. If there are anymore vague concepts, I'll still report back here.

I'm on my way to becoming the next Newton. :cool:


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Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: r72rock]
    #15519034 -

Newton wasnt into quantum mechanics just FYI, but good luck and be careful with this stuff, make sure to fact check everything, dont just trust these QM gurus on faith, there are many assumptions im QM which may or may not be valid.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: Shins]
    #15520024 -

Haha, yeah I knew that. I was just saying that as a figure of speech for a good physicist.

Thanks for the heads up. I feel like I'm checking those claims now.


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Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: r72rock]
    #15520091 -

r72rock said:
I could follow cateyes' post. :shrug:



:sunny:

r72rock said:
Thanks a lot for the input everyone! I'm still reading, trying to understand some concepts so that I may be able to actually have a discussion. If there are anymore vague concepts, I'll still report back here.

I'm on my way to becoming the next Newton. :cool:



your welcome r72rock... :smile:

Kensho :psychsplit:

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: cateyes]
    #15524056 -

Check this site out, theres a lot to check out and read.

http://www.physicsforums.com/


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:mushroomgrow: iSmkGrnBud's Wild Mushroom Finds :mushroomgrow:
:amanita2: The Noob Forum's List of Teks :amanita2:

“The probability of success is difficult to estimate; but if we never search the chance of success is zero.” -Giuseppe Cocconi

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Re: Quantum Mechanics [Re: r72rock]
    #15527227 -

this totally slipped my mind... nature.com has an index section and under that section under physical sciences there is a physics header. it costs $199.00 to join for one year but if you do a general search under the open index section, not under the physics section sometimes you can come up with up with over 100 free articles. for instance when i do an open index search i came up with 107 results under quantum mechanics, the last one was dated today. i primarily use it for new info regarding brain science and i've learned alot for free... obviously not paying for the subscription, you probably miss alot but 107 free articles is better then no articles. the stuff they allowed me to access for free is all current stuff...

Kensho :psychsplit:

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