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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinetrkgsy
e-mail bomber
Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 75
Loc: Mid-atlantic US
Last seen: 19 years, 1 month
Re: String Theory and Quantum Physics. [Re: ]
    #2210021 - 12/30/03 01:34 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Mushmaster has a good question there. In the Uncertainty Principle paper written by Werner Heisenberg in 1927, he seems to answer this question quite explicitly at two distinct points within the text. At one point he says " The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant and vice versa." He is of course refering to the simultaneous determination of position and momentum of a dynamic subject, this principle also works when applied to energy and time.
It seems that when Heisenberg says the values are 'determined' or'known', he means to say that there are exact values, but one or the other will be uncertain to us.
The most famous scientist to stand in opposition of uncertainty was Einstein. Heisenberg seemed to back up the theory that the nature of the act of observing a particle was indeed the cause for the uncertainty when he went up against Einstein at a dinner in 1930. Einstein had devised a thought experiment he believed disproved the uncertainty principle. The experiment involved the emission of a particle, either a photon or an electron but I can't remember which.
Anyways, the particle is to be emitted from a box with some sort of shutter device which limits the particle emission to just one single particle. When the emission occurs, the time is measured, then the box is weighed to see how much it had changed from before the emission. Remember how time/energy is equal to position/momentum in the uncertainty equation ? dx*dp>h = dt*de>h
By weighing the box, the energy is measured since e=mc^2. This would mean that the energy and time had both been determined!
Heisenberg found his answer before the next days' end. He found that when the particle is emitted, a force is likewise applied to the box itself which makes the energy measurment less accurate, it is uncertain. This answer hints toward the nature of observation as being the reason for the uncertainty.

However, in another part of the aforementioned uncertainty paper of 1927, Heisenberg relates a different understanding of the principle. He says," I believe the existence of the classical 'path' can be pregnantly formulated as follows: The 'path' comes into existence only when we observe it."
This is a shocking statement which touches the heart of quantum physics controversy. First allow me to clarify why this statement by Heisenberg implies the position/momentum of a particle may not exist as a definitive value.
The path he talks about here is the path which Schrodinger's cat or a particle through a filter would take. What Heisienberg says is that the cat or the particle are in a state of superposition, that is the cat is dead and alive and the particle is in more places than one.
We now know that one particle causes interference with itself, or in other words it is in a superposition. A single particle as we think of one would not cause interfernce with itself, only waves have the property of interference.
So when you measure the position of a particle, the superposition becomes one defined position. The final position is determined by probabilities along the 'wave function'. (To this, Einstein said the famous words, " God does not play dice with the universe" )
It is apparent from Schrodinger's wave equation that a defined position exists only when it is measured or observed. This of course brings many more questions that answers, as any good scientific theory should.

I do hope this thread sparks more interest on the subject

Trkgsy


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OfflineTHATS iT!
mellow
Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 225
Loc: In the misty mountains o...
Last seen: 19 years, 10 months
Re: String Theory and Quantum Physics. [Re: ]
    #2212502 - 12/31/03 07:24 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

A sub-atomic particle is made of a # of strings that curl or slide around a central string. An electromagnetic string is one dimensional, just as a string of matter. The central string and the surrounding strings pass through a questionable number of dimensions that are slightly larger than Plank's length. As they pass through, the strings curl and some reconnect with there self. Within the center of a curled string is a central point of gravity. This center of gravity causes the particle to remain as a particle. There is multiple points of gravity because some strings curl and slide. However the central point of gravity does not exist in a specific dimension, but in all dimensions. Since the number of dimensions is questionable and exist in any given point; there is no specific point for a particle. I think vibration of string determines velocity. Vibration changes in each dimension, so there is no specific velocity of a particle. However velocity can be measured in waves, as vibration is the distance in height and length between peak and trough of a wave.

Also all around us electrons are appearing, but being cancelled out at the same instant they appear by the positron; and that is definitely uncertain.


Edited by THATS iT! (12/31/03 07:32 PM)


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InvisibleMarioNett
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 354
Re: String Theory and Quantum Physics. [Re: Joshua]
    #2215043 - 01/02/04 12:43 PM (20 years, 30 days ago)

I'll second that recommendation of The Elegant Universe. The PBS special based on it is really dumbed down, however. I don't recommend that.

Joshua, I'm not sure your avatar idea is 100% original :smile:


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InvisibleJoshua
Holoman
Male

Registered: 10/27/98
Posts: 5,398
Loc: The Matrix
Re: String Theory and Quantum Physics. [Re: MarioNett]
    #2215827 - 01/02/04 09:15 PM (20 years, 30 days ago)

I was suprised to see yours just now. I don't ever recall seeing your avatar. How long have you had it?

It appears you have the same lamp as I, and a similar understanding of photography. I promise you, as far as I am aware, I created the image independantly of ever seeing or hearing of your avatar.

Joshua


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InvisibleMarioNett
Stranger
Registered: 07/21/03
Posts: 354
Re: String Theory and Quantum Physics. [Re: Joshua]
    #2216107 - 01/03/04 01:02 AM (20 years, 29 days ago)

I've had this same one for a couple years now, with this and an older account (named HateCamel--someone else is using that now, go fig). I'm only an occasional poster though, so it's no surprise if you haven't seen it.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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