Meteloides said:

Absolutely. In fact, defining the Catholic Church in Christian terms, they are pretty much steeped in "evil." The sheer scale and wealth of their organization is very disheartening to me.
I think if God and Satan are indeed real beings, the God of the old testament is definitely the evil one. He's despicable!

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The Catholic Church is definitely a hoarder of wealth, but I'd argue America's Mega-Churches are pretty disgusting as well.

One of my favorite passages has to be Matthew 19:24

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

Now, with that being said, this is my examination to the claim of Christianity.

I think this graphic sums up some of the craziness surrounding it

Aside from this, I have yet to find any valid contemporary accounts of Jesus' existence from secular sources, which makes me question whether or not he even lived, although I do believe it is probable that a man named Jesus (or in hebrew Yeshua) did live.

There were also people claiming similar miracles as Jesus documented at the same time, such as Apollonius of Tyana.

And lastly, the bible can't even seem to agree on what year Jesus was born and what day he died between the different gospels.

But I'm sorry about going off on a tangent here, just trying to add some topics of discussion not trying to bash anyone's beliefs.

Meteloides said:

I mean, it totally could've been a coincidence. These guys could just cruise around and tell a bunch of random people the same story and give them a painting, just to try and convert them.
But to me, the timing was perfect. Sometimes I'm convinced it was a miracle, and sometimes I rationalize it away as mere chance.
But I still look at that uncomplicated painting of Blood and Fire every day. It makes me wonder.

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And there you have the exact thing I was thinking, especially in what you describe as a kind of shady area (popular place for a strong church presence).

Im glad that you are no longer depressed though, as depression is truly a terrible thing

foliocb said:

Quote:

Miracle? I'm inclined to think so.

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Sooo.... your inability to spot your mothers car in the first place is a miracle? Sounds like you suffer from religious confirmation bias

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That was meant to be more of a light, humorous ending to a story that was probably altogether too detailed. I even questioned my own perception in that very post.
It seems to me that you suffer from religious ridicule bias.

Cactusdan said:

The Catholic Church is definitely a hoarder of wealth, but I'd argue America's Mega-Churches are pretty disgusting as well.

One of my favorite passages has to be Matthew 19:24

"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

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I completely agree with you there. The mega-churches, whether Catholic or not, are definitely sickening. Very contradictory.
The Catholic Church just happened to be the easiest example for me to pull up on short notice.

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Cactusdan said:

Now, with that being said, this is my examination to the claim of Christianity.

I think this graphic sums up some of the craziness surrounding it

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That graphic sums it all up pretty well. I think its really amusing that a belief that so many people unwaveringly share sounds so utterly bizarre when summarized. 

Cactusdan said:Aside from this, I have yet to find any valid contemporary accounts of Jesus' existence from secular sources, which makes me question whether or not he even lived, although I do believe it is probable that a man named Jesus (or in hebrew Yeshua) did live.

There were also people claiming similar miracles as Jesus documented at the same time, such as Apollonius of Tyana.

And lastly, the bible can't even seem to agree on what year Jesus was born and what day he died between the different gospels.

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You seem to be more well-read than I in this area. I was vaguely aware of the lack of secular documentation of Jesus' life, but hadn't looked too far into it.
It may be possible that the entire story is some sort of symbolic parable. I know that I have read a few articles that raised the possibility...

Quote:

Cactusdan said:
But I'm sorry about going off on a tangent here, just trying to add some topics of discussion not trying to bash anyone's beliefs.

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It's totally fine with me. You raise several very interesting topics. And as I said, I am still on the fence about all this. No offense taken at all.

Meteloides said:

I mean, it totally could've been a coincidence. These guys could just cruise around and tell a bunch of random people the same story and give them a painting, just to try and convert them.
But to me, the timing was perfect. Sometimes I'm convinced it was a miracle, and sometimes I rationalize it away as mere chance.
But I still look at that uncomplicated painting of Blood and Fire every day. It makes me wonder.

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And there you have the exact thing I was thinking, especially in what you describe as a kind of shady area (popular place for a strong church presence).

Im glad that you are no longer depressed though, as depression is truly a terrible thing

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That could very well be it. In which case, this is possibly the most devious and effective form of viral marketing I've encountered.
Although the timing of it is still juuust enough to make me wonder.

I'm glad I managed to beat it, too. It was pretty dark, but I made it through alright. Thanks for the kind words.

Quote:

...although I do believe it is probable that a man named Jesus (or in hebrew Yeshua) did live.

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Quote:

Psalm 139:23 >>

New International Version (©1984)
Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Search me, O God, and know my heart! Try me and know my thoughts!

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Search me, O God, and know my heart; Try me and know my anxious thoughts;

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Search me, oh God, and know my heart, and prove me and know my steps

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Examine me, O God, and know my mind. Test me, and know my thoughts.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

American King James Version
Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

American Standard Version
Search me, O God, and know my heart: Try me, and know my thoughts;

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Quote:

That was meant to be more of a light, humorous ending to a story that was probably altogether too detailed. I even questioned my own perception in that very post.
It seems to me that you suffer from religious ridicule bias.

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Is that a fancy term for good bullshit detector and lack of childish gullibility?

Meteloides said:

I partially see myself as Christian. But not by the modern definition.
I don't read the bible, because the Catholic Church (among other corrupt authoritarians) have rewrote and mistranslated and revised it so many times that it is simply a modern manual of subservience.
I do not go to church, because I do not trust an institution based on tithing and the Bible to give me Truth. The world is my temple.
I think Christianity was based on a common Truth shared by many other world religions, and that the Truth has been obfuscated deliberately by those seeking control.
I have seen some miraculous events, and do pray every once in a while. But not to Jesus, for I believe Jesus was simply an enlightened individual.
Although I like to think he and I would get along pretty well.

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Quote:

irishdixie said: if you can't even acknowledge HE is our Savior.

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irishdixie said:

Meteloides said:

I partially see myself as Christian. But not by the modern definition.
I don't read the bible, because the Catholic Church (among other corrupt authoritarians) have rewrote and mistranslated and revised it so many times that it is simply a modern manual of subservience.
I do not go to church, because I do not trust an institution based on tithing and the Bible to give me Truth. The world is my temple.
I think Christianity was based on a common Truth shared by many other world religions, and that the Truth has been obfuscated deliberately by those seeking control.
I have seen some miraculous events, and do pray every once in a while. But not to Jesus, for I believe Jesus was simply an enlightened individual.
Although I like to think he and I would get along pretty well.

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Yeah you are definitely not a Christian talking that kinda crap,
but to each his own. Good luck living in a dream if you think Christ
and you will be buddies if you can't even acknowledge HE is our Savior.

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John Hagee? Is that you!?

irishdixie said:

Meteloides said:

I partially see myself as Christian. But not by the modern definition.
I don't read the bible, because the Catholic Church (among other corrupt authoritarians) have rewrote and mistranslated and revised it so many times that it is simply a modern manual of subservience.
I do not go to church, because I do not trust an institution based on tithing and the Bible to give me Truth. The world is my temple.
I think Christianity was based on a common Truth shared by many other world religions, and that the Truth has been obfuscated deliberately by those seeking control.
I have seen some miraculous events, and do pray every once in a while. But not to Jesus, for I believe Jesus was simply an enlightened individual.
Although I like to think he and I would get along pretty well.

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Yeah you are definitely not a Christian talking that kinda crap,
but to each his own. Good luck living in a dream if you think Christ
and you will be buddies if you can't even acknowledge HE is our Savior.

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Cactusdan said:

Quote:

irishdixie said: if you can't even acknowledge HE is our Savior.

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And your proof is?

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MarkostheGnostic said:

irishdixie said:

Meteloides said:

I partially see myself as Christian. But not by the modern definition.
I don't read the bible, because the Catholic Church (among other corrupt authoritarians) have rewrote and mistranslated and revised it so many times that it is simply a modern manual of subservience.
I do not go to church, because I do not trust an institution based on tithing and the Bible to give me Truth. The world is my temple.
I think Christianity was based on a common Truth shared by many other world religions, and that the Truth has been obfuscated deliberately by those seeking control.
I have seen some miraculous events, and do pray every once in a while. But not to Jesus, for I believe Jesus was simply an enlightened individual.
Although I like to think he and I would get along pretty well.

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Yeah you are definitely not a Christian talking that kinda crap,
but to each his own. Good luck living in a dream if you think Christ
and you will be buddies if you can't even acknowledge HE is our Savior.

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Obviously, you are unaware of the value of Ante-Nicean Christianity, have been thoroughly indoctrinated by the ecclesiastic agenda, and are likewise unaware of the pre-doctrinal, pre-intellectual reduction of Gnostic Christianity to mere doctrinal belief with a marked political agenda. Gnostic Christians pursued spiritual freedom unfettered by political agendas, practiced discernment of spiritual verities without ecclesiastical authority - authorities which launched crusades, inquisitions, pogroms, witch hunt and the oppression of womankind.  If anyone lives in a dream, it is is the multitudes of literalists and dogmatists who uphold intellectual doctrines instead of spiritual Illumination as the meaning of 'Christ.' Christ means 'anointed,' deriving from the word 'chrism' - the anointing of which is a symbolic gesture indicating Initiation/Illumination. The Christian myths are salvific, but not through irrational emotion passing as as trans-rational faith. Neither is Death-Resurrection-Ascension more than a recapitulation of Egyptian myth in a Hellenistic idiom. Same story - names changed. "There are no new things under the sun" (Ecclesiastes 1:9), which is why rabid fundamentalism is the one true heresy and denial of TRUTH.

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Obviously,you know nothing about me,but from what you say you seem to
know a bunch of false teachings.good luck with that. I'll pray
for you.
Peace

irishdixie said:

Cactusdan said:

Quote:

irishdixie said: if you can't even acknowledge HE is our Savior.

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And your proof is?

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I have been in HIS presence,and happen to believe the teachings
in the Bible. Look around !!!

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