G-Cotty said:

Hey guys, I know that a lot of people on these forums do not believe in an organized religion or a 'god' in the way that most religions teach. I totally understand the whole concept behind all being a part of the same sort of entity and that there is no actual god.

I am wondering, however, are there any Christians (or Muslims?) out there who have found that their experiences with psychedelics have actually led them to a believe in such a god as that of the bible? A friend of mine recently tried to argue with me that the god of the bible is completely compatible with a worldview which adopts the idea that everyone is really just a part of one big crazy interconnectedness.

Any insights?

---

I think that you'd better reference mysticism - Christian or otherwise. Christian mysticism departs from biblical myth into experiences of formless Presence, Light, and Sound (not 'words,' but Sound). Biblical stories are written as Hebrew midrash, (like the notion of Resurrection) which is the Hebrew correlate to Greek myth (like the notion of Incarnation). The Tenach is all about the former, the New Testament is all about the latter, and the Nag Hammadi library has Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek, and probably Iranian influences, and no evaluation of the NT should be considered without familiarity with the Nag Hammadi writings, beginning with the Gospel of Thomas. "The truth is out there."

While you're at it, you might as well compare and contrast the following categories of religious experience: Deism -Theism - Pantheism - Panentheism. I'll expect a paper on my desk, double-spaced, 8-10 pages, by Friday.

FishOilTheKid said:

^BS

---

Quote:

Daedalus warned his son not to fly too close to the sun, nor too close to the sea.

---

Quote:

Meteloides said:I think Christianity was based on a common Truth shared by many other world religions, and that the Truth has been obfuscated deliberately by those seeking control.
I have seen some miraculous events

---

Cactusdan said:

On your first point, I absolutely agree that the Catholic Church has definitely adopted many Pagan customs. The fact of the matter is, the God of the Old Testament is despicable. Literally killing or telling people to kill millions of people. Telling people to kill all of a culture except their young virgin women, of which are to be kept as slaves. Telling Abraham to kill his Son, and telling Jephthah to do the same. The God of the Old Testament is disgusting IMO.

As far as the miracle story, Im extremely skeptical of it. What was your mom's side of the story? There are a lot of things that could have been perceived one way or another, and there a lot of interesting studies that show how spotty human's memory recollection really is.

The day I believe a miracle is the day an amputee is healed, personally.

---

Absolutely. In fact, defining the Catholic Church in Christian terms, they are pretty much steeped in "evil." The sheer scale and wealth of their organization is very disheartening to me.
I think if God and Satan are indeed real beings, the God of the old testament is definitely the evil one. He's despicable!

I totally understand the skepticism. I'm honestly a little skeptical of it myself. We both could've been very focused on the light coming through the open door and not noticed the truck in the driveway or something similar. My doubt goes in both directions though, when I remember the wonder and confusion from the heat of the moment.
If it was a miracle, it was definitely some heavy reality-bending shit.

There was another instance a couple years ago, when I was at my deepest in my first real existential crisis. I was in a deep depression and was seriously considering suicide.
I was out at work in a neighboring state, and on my break I decided to walk to a local minimart. I had to walk across a long stretch of empty parking lot (state offices- closed on Saturday).
Walking back, I had a brief "lucid" moment in which I realized just how fucking beautiful this little grove of trees in the center of the parking lot was. I was so caught up in watching the branches gently sway in the breeze that I totally missed the little red Geo Metro cruising up to me.
The car pulled up right in front of me and the driver called out. Coming from a bad neighborhood, I was very wary of them. When a car pulls up that close in my neighborhood, they're either going to jump you and try to pay you for sex.
There were three people in the car: All three were caucasian. The driver was wearing one of those Mexican baja poncho things made out of hemp. The passenger a woman wearing some kind of sundress. And the guy in the back had long dreadlocks and was heavily tattooed. The two guys were somewhere in their mid-20's, and I guess the woman's age at mid-30's.
The driver told me that the Holy Spirit had told him to bring his friends and cruise the parking lot, because there would be a young man there who desperately needed a sign of His Presence.
They were exceedingly friendly and articulate, but I was still a little scared of them. I also thought they might try to sell me something or some such. Ha.
I told em they had the wrong guy and they disagreed, saying there wasn't anyone else in sight. They told me some stuff that sounded like it was from a Scripture, and offered to baptize me "By the Fire of the Spirit" right there in the parking lot.
Being socially awkward, depressed, and skittish, I refused. Told them some lie about how I already had a church and would rather be baptized by the preacher there.
The driver pulled out a painting he'd made and told me that he had painted it for me. That I was supposed to have it to have tangible proof of this encounter, and something with which to keep my faith strong. Inwardly, I thought it was kind of a ridiculous-looking thing. Very simple in style, bordering on childish.
I protested again, but eventually accepted the painting. Refused the baptism though. They then drove off without trying to rob me, shouting "God bless you man!" as they puttered away.

Later, I realized something. I didn't go to church and mostly despised Christians because I couldn't relate to them. I figured they were too different from me, and fuck them and their sheep-like complacence.
(This was when I was very cynical and smoking a lot of weed. I identified myself as a "Stoner")
Then I came into contact with spiritual people who were "like me," and what did I do? I distrusted them! Felt threatened! It was a pretty interesting lesson to learn about myself.

Still have the painting. Haven't faced a depression of that magnitude since.

I mean, it totally could've been a coincidence. These guys could just cruise around and tell a bunch of random people the same story and give them a painting, just to try and convert them.
But to me, the timing was perfect. Sometimes I'm convinced it was a miracle, and sometimes I rationalize it away as mere chance.
But I still look at that uncomplicated painting of Blood and Fire every day. It makes me wonder.

Quote:

Miracle? I'm inclined to think so.

---

Sooo.... your inability to spot your mothers car in the first place is a miracle? Sounds like you suffer from religious confirmation bias