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My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics * 3
    #14865581 -

So, I went to see a psychologist for the first time in my life a few days ago mainly to investigate possible adult-onset ADHD.  (And no, I'm not just trying to game the system.  It has really started to screw with my life.  I actually failed one of my grad school courses last semester, which would have been formerly unthinkable for me).

I had been very honest with my psychologist about having tried my friend's Focalin XR and Adderall XR and having felt that they did wonders.  I also made it clear that I don't like having to break the law, but that I was simply trying to figure out what was wrong with me.  She didn't seem to take any issue with this or give me any lecture about not doing blah blah blah.  So, in some ways my psychologist seemed like a pretty understanding and open-minded person.

But when I mentioned that "psychedelics" was one of my hobbies, my psychologist was like, "What's that?"  Like, she didn't know what the word meant.  And I explained, "You know, psychedelics.  Like, psilocybin mushrooms."  And she's like, "Oh boy...."  Later in the interview, she was like, "Now, are you still using these 'psychedelics'?"  And I was like, "Well, you see, it's not really like that.  Each time is a special consideration regarding whether I'm going to do them that time, or even ever again.  I am continually asking myself whether a continued engagement with psychedelics has any merit to it."  And then she's like, "So you're probably not going to do them anymore, I take it?"  And I was like, "No, it's actually quite likely that I will be using them again at some point."  And she seemed terribly confused for a moment. 

Later, towards the end of the interview, she asked me if I was opposed to taking any sort of medicine, and I said, "No, it would depend on the particular medicine.  There are some treatments that I wouldn't do, and some that I would."  And she was like, "So, let me get this straight:  psilocybin mushrooms are okay, but..."  And I said, "I wouldn't want to take anything that would produce dependence."  And she was like, "Oh, I understand."  But in many ways, I don't think she really did.  I think that she is, in fact, almost completely ignorant about psychedelics, for instance.  She probably thinks that they make you "see crazy shit" and "go insane" and can't fathom why I, an apparently intelligent and respectable middle-class grad student would be partaking in them. 

I'm supposed to have a follow-up meeting a week from now where she will go over my preliminary diagnosis, so I'm very curious what she will say.  Because, for example, on the survey forms that she probably didn't have enough time before the interview to read in detail, I put down in the "religious belief" section that I believed in a very specific and unique fusion of the ideas of psychonautics author Michael Hoffman and the music of heavy metal legend Ronnie James Dio as interpreted as a metaphor for the psychedelic mystic state.  That will probably raise some red flags.  (She'll also probably need to get a dictionary or go to google to look up the meaning of the word "psychonautics.")  But I would be thrilled to explain myself and my views during our next visit, and to hopefully make her a little less ignorant of the intellectual realm of the psychedelic experience. 

It just boggles my mind that trained professionals can pass judgment on such things without having the slightest idea of what they subjectively do.


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Comradez] * 7
    #14865602 -

Comradez said:
to investigate possible adult-onset ADHD.



You sat down and wrote out a post too long for most of the Pub to be bothered with reading.

I think you'll be all right with your ADHD.

P.S. Stop giving your money to/putting your faith in quacks and frauds.

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: SpiritualSnorkel]
    #14865604 -

hahaha...that religion belief part was so funny


--------------------
How do you know but ev’ry Bird that cuts the airy way,
Is an immense world of delight, clos’d by your senses five?

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Comradez]
    #14865606 -

Hey interesting read :thumbup:
Psychologists REALLY should know more about psychedelics don't you think?

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Comradez]
    #14865621 -

I wouldn't trust most psychologists with anything related to marijuana or psychedelics.  You can read all the clinical books in the world, if you haven't tried it you really can't pass judgement on it.  If you've ever taken psychology courses in America you would see how there are so many misunderstandings when it comes to drugs and people. 

There exceptions to this but your average psychologist knows about drugs what they've studied in literature and the psychological literature towards marijuana and psychedelics are very limited for the most part.    It also doesn't really take into count the beneficial effects that some people may get from marijuana and psychedelics.  I am not saying these drugs are always good but they certainly can be and I see psychology for the most part looks at the negative aspect towards these drugs and psychologists who have never tripped or smoked weed certainly have no right to pass judgement on people who use it.

I went to a psychologist about a year ago and all he could say was you have to stop for 30-90 days to be compeletely sober from it :facepalm:  I probably told him something of the like to try not to eat any tasty foods or do anything you enjoy for 90 days.  American psychology really has limited knowledge on psychedelics and weed.

Edited by skatealex2 (08/03/11 02:40 AM)

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: SpiritualSnorkel]
    #14865638 -

SpiritualSnorkel said:
Comradez said:
to investigate possible adult-onset ADHD.



You sat down and wrote out a post too long for most of the Pub to be bothered with reading.

I think you'll be all right with your ADHD.

P.S. Stop giving your money to/putting your faith in quacks and frauds.



Yes, that's true.  It's quite possible that my heart simply isn't into the prospect of finishing grad school.  But it's something that has to be done.  Trust me on this.  Failure is not an option, not after going this far.  So if ADHD medication can help me soldier through the rest of it, then what's wrong with that?


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: SpiritualSnorkel]
    #14865642 -

SpiritualSnorkel said:
Comradez said:
to investigate possible adult-onset ADHD.



You sat down and wrote out a post too long for most of the Pub to be bothered with reading.

I think you'll be all right with your ADHD.

P.S. Stop giving your money to/putting your faith in quacks and frauds.




Wow doctor! you sure are good at diagnosing ADHD over the interweb!


i found this very interesting actually and i hope you keep us updated on what you talk about in your next session.

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Comradez] * 2
    #14865654 -

Honestly, and I hate to be blunt...but what the hell did you expect?

That is the norm. She actually sounds more open-minded and less judgmental than most.
They are mostly pill pushers. They are taught that illegal drugs are bad, prescription drugs are good. They get kickbacks from the pharm companies. Most of them still believe half the shit D.A.R.E taught them.

I spent a good 7 years of my life as a kid being pushed around by those fucks. The field of psychiatry does SOME good things for some people, but on a whole I am of the opinion that they have no fucking clue what the fuck they are doing. We don't understand 1% of the human mind. Their solution to every one of life's problems is here take this pill that will severely alter your brain chemistry every day for the rest of your life.

Just because someone has a degree does not necessarily mean they are educated.

There are some good open-minded psychologists out there doing good things though. But they are the vast, vast minority.


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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Wooden Spoon]
    #14865664 -

ya dude I'd like to hear more about this too. I bet you won't be able to pierce into the psychologist's thick armor of education though, what you say to her about drugs will probably go in one ear and out the other...

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: skatealex2]
    #14865665 -

skatealex2 said:
I wouldn't trust most psychologists with anything related to marijuana or psychedelics.  You can read all the clinical books in the world, if you haven't tried it you really can't pass judgement on it.  If you've ever taken psychology courses in America you would see how there are so many misunderstandings when it comes to drugs and people. 

There exceptions to this but your average psychologist knows about drugs what they've studied in literature and the psychological literature towards marijuana and psychedelics are very limited for the most part.    It also doesn't really take into count the beneficial effects that some people may get from marijuana and psychedelics.  I am not saying these drugs are always good but they certainly can be and I see psychology for the most part looks at the negative aspect towards these drugs and psychologists who have never tripped or smoked weed certainly have no right to pass judgement on people who use it.

I went to a psychologist about a year ago and all he could say was you have to stop for 30-90 days to be compeletely sober from it :facepalm:  I probably told him something of the like to try not to eat any tasty foods or do anything you enjoy for 90 days.  American psychology really has limited knowledge on psychedelics and weed.



Yes, the thing I noticed about this psychologist was that she was very "scientific" in her approach, and by that I mean, most of the interview consisted of doing tests, like this one ADHD test where I had to click a button every time I saw a square flash on the top of the screen but not on the bottom, and filling out standardized psychology surveys and whatnot.  There was actually very little interview.  Most of the "interview" portion was her flipping through my forms I had filled out and going over some points with me, or filling out a questionnaire with me.  She doesn't seem to be the sort of psychologist who is into highly speculative psycho-analytical mumjo-jumbo, which is a good thing, I think, but I also suspect that she bases her throught very much off of what mainstream published clinical studies show, and she might not have a very wide-ranging eye for things more on the periphery in her field, such as the clinical trials involving psychedelics recently and currently ongoing.


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Comradez]
    #14865672 -

Comradez said:
It's quite possible that my heart simply isn't into the prospect of finishing grad school.



Sounds like that could be the trouble, yeah.


Quote:
Failure is not an option, not after going this far.  So if ADHD medication can help me soldier through the rest of it, then what's wrong with that?



Obviously it's a personal decision, but if your heart isn't in something, then why would you ultimately want to pursue it? It isn't failure, just a change of direction.

Ignoring those signals and getting on pharms is only going to set you back. Now you could easily change your direction, but if you take the drugs and plow through the bullshit, what happens when you come out the other side? Could be a ten-fold discontentment.

It's like taking opiates and not feeling the pain response to let you know your testicles are on fire.

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Shroomism]
    #14865680 -

Shroomism said:
Honestly, and I hate to be blunt...but what the hell did you expect?

That is the norm. She actually sounds more open-minded and less judgmental than most.
They are mostly pill pushers. They are taught that illegal drugs are bad, prescription drugs are good. They get kickbacks from the pharm companies. Most of them still believe half the shit D.A.R.E taught them.

I spent a good 7 years of my life as a kid being pushed around by those fucks. The field of psychiatry does SOME good things for some people, but on a whole I am of the opinion that they have no fucking clue what the fuck they are doing. We don't understand 1% of the human mind. Their solution to every one of life's problems is here take this pill that will severely alter your brain chemistry every day for the rest of your life.

Just because someone has a degree does not necessarily mean they are educated.

There are some good open-minded psychologists out there doing good things though. But they are the vast, vast minority.



This psychologist honestly seemed like she was well-meaning.  She was no Nurse Ratchet or anything.  But she just seemed a little ignorant on some things. 

For instance, she also didn't know what adrafinil or modafinil were when I mentioned that I had taken them on occasion.  I mentioned that modafinil also went by the tradename "Provigil," and she was like, "Oh, I think I might have heard of that..."  I explained that these were non-amphetamine stimulants used by the military for pilots on long missions and used in Europe for the treatment of narcolepsy.  And she was like, "So these are non-narcotic stimulants?"  And I responded, "They are non-amphetamine stimulants, correct." while thinking to myself, "Amphetamine stimulants are 'narcotics???  What the FUCK?"


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: SpiritualSnorkel]
    #14865686 -

now we're the psychologists haha j/k. what are you taking in school?

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Man in the Box] * 1
    #14865689 -

When I was 18 I went through all kinds of testing for ADD. Ultimately just a waste of money and worrying. Took a year break from school and once I got back it was all good. Sometimes you just need a break.

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Wooden Spoon]
    #14865692 -

Wooden Spoon said:
SpiritualSnorkel said:
Comradez said:
to investigate possible adult-onset ADHD.



You sat down and wrote out a post too long for most of the Pub to be bothered with reading.

I think you'll be all right with your ADHD.

P.S. Stop giving your money to/putting your faith in quacks and frauds.




Wow doctor! you sure are good at diagnosing ADHD over the interweb!


i found this very interesting actually and i hope you keep us updated on what you talk about in your next session.



The question to me isn't whether he has ADHD, by some psychiatrist's definition, or not. It's irrelevant to me. If they prescribe him the drugs then the Doc is one step closer to that GlaxoSmithKline fruit basket or all-expenses-paid vacation to some conference in Vegas, and the guy will be stunted in whatever area he's having trouble in for the duration of the time he takes them. If you can't concentrate then change your lifestyle, exercise some old fashioned self-discipline. Enough with these fucking inventions of modern psychiatry, seriously.

Sounds like you also willfully and lovingly give your money and time to hacks who don't know shit about anything and love every minute of it. Good for you.

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: SpiritualSnorkel]
    #14865704 -

SpiritualSnorkel said:
Comradez said:
It's quite possible that my heart simply isn't into the prospect of finishing grad school.



Sounds like that could be the trouble, yeah.


Quote:
Failure is not an option, not after going this far.  So if ADHD medication can help me soldier through the rest of it, then what's wrong with that?



Obviously it's a personal decision, but if your heart isn't in something, then why would you ultimately want to pursue it? It isn't failure, just a change of direction.

Ignoring those signals and getting on pharms is only going to set you back. Now you could easily change your direction, but if you take the drugs and plow through the bullshit, what happens when you come out the other side? Could be a ten-fold discontentment.

It's like taking opiates and not feeling the pain response to let you know your testicles are on fire.



Part of my ostensible ADHD is that my interests seem to change very frequently in the first place.  So this masters program is something that my heart WAS into just a short while ago.  It probably wouldn't even matter if I were doing something else that my current heart was into right now; I'd probably lose interest in that. 

For example, I have 75 pages written of a book on the lyrics of Ronnie James Dio as a metaphor for the psychedelic experience.  I'm already a good ways towards finishing it, and by all accounts I should be working on it this very moment.  But I can't seem to finish any project I start.  I'm always starting projects and never finishing them.  That's a big problem, and to me that sounds like it could be ADHD. 

Plus, even if I come out of the other side of this masters program absolutely hating it, what I anticipate is also higher earning potential, credibility, and the ability to pursue more of what I really want to do.  For example, it's going to be more difficult to get a book about the lyrics of Ronnie James Dio as metaphor for the psychedelic experience taken seriously with just a bachelor's degree vs. having a master's degree.  Finishing this program will be an ongoing asset to my life, just as finishing my undergraduate program at Harvard has been and will continue to be, even though I wasn't always the happiest doing that either, and even though it took a few occasional Adderall XR to get me through a really tough spot where I really didn't feel like doing my school work when I was there as well.


--------------------

They say that life's a carousel / Spinning fast, you've got to ride it well / The world is full of kings and queens / Who blind your eyes and steal your dreams / It's heaven and hell - Ronnie James Dio (RIP) :headbanger:

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Comradez]
    #14865707 -

Comradez said:
Shroomism said:
Honestly, and I hate to be blunt...but what the hell did you expect?

That is the norm. She actually sounds more open-minded and less judgmental than most.
They are mostly pill pushers. They are taught that illegal drugs are bad, prescription drugs are good. They get kickbacks from the pharm companies. Most of them still believe half the shit D.A.R.E taught them.

I spent a good 7 years of my life as a kid being pushed around by those fucks. The field of psychiatry does SOME good things for some people, but on a whole I am of the opinion that they have no fucking clue what the fuck they are doing. We don't understand 1% of the human mind. Their solution to every one of life's problems is here take this pill that will severely alter your brain chemistry every day for the rest of your life.

Just because someone has a degree does not necessarily mean they are educated.

There are some good open-minded psychologists out there doing good things though. But they are the vast, vast minority.



This psychologist honestly seemed like she was well-meaning.  She was no Nurse Ratchet or anything.  But she just seemed a little ignorant on some things. 

For instance, she also didn't know what adrafinil or modafinil were when I mentioned that I had taken them on occasion.  I mentioned that modafinil also went by the tradename "Provigil," and she was like, "Oh, I think I might have heard of that..."  I explained that these were non-amphetamine stimulants used by the military for pilots on long missions and used in Europe for the treatment of narcolepsy.  And she was like, "So these are non-narcotic stimulants?"  And I responded, "They are non-amphetamine stimulants, correct." while thinking to myself, "Amphetamine stimulants are 'narcotics???  What the FUCK?"



She sounds like she's fresh out of grad school, or possibly still there. Someone who passed enough tests to be there but has no insight of their own, therefore conducting their research based solely on numbers and cross-referencing.

As long as you get the pills you're after tho, it doesn't really matter.


--------------------
/ / / / / / / LISTEN TO MY MUSIC: E X E D / / / / / / /
The universe gives no fucks. And takes no fucks.
May His Circuits Ever Function

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Comradez] * 5
    #14865710 -

ADHD is pretty much total bullshit. Everyone has some aspects of it. It's another disorder they invented as an excuse to sell more pharms.
If you just want legal speed (which is essentially all adderral, etc is), go to another shrink, they will give it to you. They will be happy to. 9 out of 10 would be.
Always happy to diagnose someone with some bullshit disorder to sell more pills.

I suggest meditation, a healthy diet, exercise, water, fresh air, sunshine and lots of cannabis sativa.
Although the latter won't necessarily help your motivation to finish major projects. It's my defacto suggestion :smirk:


--------------------

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Shroomism]
    #14865713 -

Shroomism said:
Honestly, and I hate to be blunt...but what the hell did you expect?

That is the norm. She actually sounds more open-minded and less judgmental than most.
They are mostly pill pushers. They are taught that illegal drugs are bad, prescription drugs are good. They get kickbacks from the pharm companies. Most of them still believe half the shit D.A.R.E taught them.

I spent a good 7 years of my life as a kid being pushed around by those fucks. The field of psychiatry does SOME good things for some people, but on a whole I am of the opinion that they have no fucking clue what the fuck they are doing. We don't understand 1% of the human mind. Their solution to every one of life's problems is here take this pill that will severely alter your brain chemistry every day for the rest of your life.

Just because someone has a degree does not necessarily mean they are educated.

There are some good open-minded psychologists out there doing good things though. But they are the vast, vast minority.





i so agree with everything in your post. i had some major depression issues and saw a shrink. one hour he talked to me and gave me 2 prescriptions.

i said: "i really don't like talking pills, and i think your jumping to a diagnosis."
he said: "they will make you fell better, so your not depressed."
i said: "my girl friend lied to me, stole almost everything i owned, and won't let me see my kid. i think being depressed is natural considering what has happened."
he just looked at me with a face of discovery. and said: "ok, next week we'll explore treatment options." i didn't go back.


--------------------
:willynilly:

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Re: My psychologist doesn't have a fucking clue about psychedelics [Re: Comradez] * 3
    #14865714 -

Comradez said:
Later, towards the end of the interview, she asked me if I was opposed to taking any sort of medicine, and I said,




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