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InvisibleJared
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Big company fucking people over.. what can I do?
    #2331366 - 02/13/04 04:33 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Logitech Inc.

I bought a set of their z560 speakers not too long ago, only to have them burn out on me not a month after purchasing them.

I RMAed them, (I flipped the shipping!) hoping that would be the end of the problem... but it wasn't. Insted of sending me the z560 400 watt 4.1ch speakers I had bought they sent me a set of z5300 280 watt 5.1ch speakers. They are not nearly as good, the center speaker totally washes the stereo imaging of music away. In fewer words -> They suck.

I've written several emails, in which I never get a real answer.. they're always clouded with obscurity.. They even directed me to labtec.com's tech support, another company that logitech owns.. they of course had no clue what I was talking about, since they don't provide support for the products I was talking about.

When I started arguing with their phone support and I might add, as calmly as possible, that they didn't send me a product of equal value as the z5300s do not sound as good, period. I compared them directly with a set of 560's and this is FACT. They hung up on me.

Upon calling again, they told me that they do not manufacture the 560's anymore, that the z5300's are their replacement line. I've searched online, and I am not the only person to point out that the 5300's are garbage in comparison to the 560s. They've done this swap to many people already. They refuse to replace my z560's with a set of equal power and clairity, and they will not give me a refund in light of their refusal. They basically said theres nothing they'll do, and theres nothing I can do.

.. but I'm sure there is something I can do, I just don't know what it is yet. Is there a place I can contact with this information that beats the shit out of huge corporations for pulling stunts like this, or at least a place that will make them replace my speakers with proper ones? I'm really pissed off about this, and find it hard to believe that such a large company is behaving in this manner. =(

Do not buy logitech.


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Offlineamyloid
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Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 980
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: Jared]
    #2331389 - 02/13/04 04:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

tell them you want the price difference between the 2 models, if they even hint that they wont do it, ask the customer service person if u can talk to their supervisor. usually the next guy up wont be such a moron and will just do whatever u want. its not like they are losing money.

and i think your warranty probably says they will replace the speakers with something of equal or greater value.. if not say it does anyway! =)


--------------------
"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein


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InvisibleJared
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Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: amyloid]
    #2331425 - 02/13/04 04:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Thats the problem! These new speakers have the same MSRP (Gotta love how THEY decide whats equivalent value, eh?), even though they're of lesser quality. All the metal parts have been replaced with plastic, the sub is 100w insted of 188w, the satelites are 33w insted of 53w, and they do not handle the mids as well. They made their name in speakers with the 560's and then swaped them out for speakers that they can make more money on =(


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OfflineStubaby
crosseyed andpainless

Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 156
Loc: Dudley's Kitchen
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: Jared]
    #2331446 - 02/13/04 05:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry that this post doesn't help your situation any.. you took the sequence of actions that I, myself, would have followed. But I'm looking to purchase some speakers in the future and had heard some good things about logitech products and was just curious if you know what caused your speakers to burn out so quickly? Good luck with getting things straightened out.


--------------------
Well everybody's dancin in a ring around the sun
Nobody's finished, we ain't even begun
So take off your shoes child, and take off your hat
Try on your wings and find out where it's at.


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InvisibleJared
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Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: Stubaby]
    #2331457 - 02/13/04 05:08 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Its a well known problem, and has plauged many people, they were apparently using 15w speakers in the satelites and powering them with 53watts.. same story with the sub, rated for under 100 watts, with 188 flowing through it. While this gave the imense sound and power we all know and love about the 560s it also gave them a knack for blowing out when used at high volumes. Thats the "Solution" of the 5300s.. they only go to about 30% the volume that the 560's were capable of. Max volume is loud, but not conversation breaking.


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InvisibleTheDude
is waiting forthe peak

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 2,876
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: Jared]
    #2331479 - 02/13/04 05:14 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Tell them you want a complete refund, send back the speakers that are shitty and say you are taking your business elsewhere. If they give you any problems, tell the supervisor that you have a friend that writes for a newspaper and that he'll submit a story on the unfair treatment and robbery of customers.

....i love my logitech MX700 mouse though, its freaking sweet!


--------------------
"this lebowski he called himself 'the dude'. now, 'dude', that's a name no one would self-apply where i come from but there was a lot about the dude that didn't make sense to me...."--the Stranger


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InvisibleOsker246
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Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 1,479
Loc: Washington
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: TheDude]
    #2331542 - 02/13/04 05:43 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yea I would do what THEDUDE said, that sounds like it would work.


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Invisibleutopianglory
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Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 965
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: Jared]
    #2331944 - 02/13/04 08:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

A few things,

100w and 188w are less than 3dB apart, they would not be significantly different to a human ear, which can only differiate a doubling of volume at approximately 10dB. The bottom line here is not that you can't tell the difference, just that the wattage ratings for these speaker sets are b/s, so many are.

The centre channel will ruin stereo imaging if you are not using 5.1 formatted sound and you have a stereo stream.. I don't know what facilities you have with your soundcard but you might try fading the sound it. Some stereo formatted audio has dolby encoding in it, specifically there for conversion to 5.1 so you might get away with it, but not with mp3s.

The contention that they are using 15w speakers powered to 53w is pure rumour, if that were true there would only be one things happening and that would be gargled sound and the voice coil burning. Its more likely they will overpower a sub because they are much more sturdy to handle overpowering but continuous bass on a 100w sub with 150+w is going to quickly heat up the voice coil and you will smell it - I know because I smell mine when I put it through over volumed bass. In my case the wattage ratings on my subs are faithful, because I smell them burning right at the end capacity of one of my amp channels which is slightly more powerful than the subs are rated to handle.

I have heard 8's that would have put my subs to shame (a lot larger) but they were nigh on 1000$ at only 60w.

They might sound worse but have you tried to manipulate the eq atall?

Oh here is a quick trick to figure out a bit more faithful wattage value of your amp. Generally (Please, nobody start an argument here) these amps are only going to be about 50% efficient on power in. So look at the back of the amp for the wattage power it claims it uses, half that and you have an extremely rough total for likely power it really puts out. Of course there is contention whether it is RMS values etc.


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Offlineamyloid
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Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 980
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: utopianglory]
    #2331962 - 02/13/04 08:37 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

although it didnt happen to me, i feel the bigger issue is that they arnt making him a happy customer, their product pooped out, and they replaced it with speakers that arnt acceptable. anything else is just flabba jabba IMO


--------------------
"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
-Al Einstein


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OfflineScolecite
enthusiast

Registered: 12/27/03
Posts: 348
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: amyloid]
    #2332337 - 02/13/04 10:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I returned my z-560s, I cut my sub power plug and wrapped it up witht he control thing with the blue light. Cost me $3 to send to them. After 2 monthes they sent me an entire nother set of z-560 so now I have 4 extra speakers if my originals ever go.

As I recal they had a big problem with the sub blowing out like mine where it actually burns up. Perhaps there is other avenues you can go down, since MANY others have done the same thing.

And yea the z-560s are leathal weapons, that replacment sounds like crap compared.


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Offlinelove2zen
Ever walkedoutside w/ oyour pants???

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 110
Loc: west coast
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: Jared]
    #2332472 - 02/13/04 11:15 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I would go to  Better Business Bureau and lodge a consumer complaint. You need to let others know not to do business with this company. Plus they will investigate unlawful practices.

Also if you go to this website [url=www.knowX.com[/url]find out if there are lawsuits pending on businesses.

Also if you seek "consumer advocasy" Go to this site  NOLO- the free legal info site, look under "consumer", there are laws that protect the consumer!  :mad2:

I hope this helps, seriuosly you should follow through with this!
goodluck, and sorry :thumbdown:


--------------------
"I don't know karate- but I KNOW CRAZY!!!"-James Brown


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Invisibledjfrog
omgws!!!1!

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 3,710
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: Jared]
    #2332682 - 02/14/04 12:05 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Also, don't buy Minolta brand cameras. Pieces of shit, mine broke once after 1.5 months and again after 3.5 months with a 3 month warranty.


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: djfrog]
    #2334032 - 02/14/04 01:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)



Minolta?  I personaly think you had a special case.  But thats just from personal experience. Was your camera of high quality to begin with? Or a low end model?

Anyway,  Jared man, why are you buying speakers from a mouse company in the first place?    :biggrin:


--------------------
~Happy sailing~


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Invisibledjfrog
omgws!!!1!

Registered: 10/23/00
Posts: 3,710
Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: RuNE]
    #2334458 - 02/14/04 03:35 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

It was a Dimage F300.


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InvisibleJared
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Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: utopianglory]
    #2335186 - 02/14/04 07:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

TheDude
They refuse absolutly to refund anything. =\

utopianglory
Wattage aside, the original sub from the z560s was open air, and the 5300 is internal. It may very well get as loud, but I know for a fact that it does not carry as well, or hit as sharply as the 560 sub. Its more like a droning bass than one with punch. I hate how it sounds, and like I said it just doesn't carry. I used to be able to listen to my music a room over with no trouble.. not anymore. =(

I've played with my card's eq like mad.. and theres no way around it, the 5300's are crap.

I use these speakers 95% of the time for playing 2ch CD and mp3 audio. The center channel totally ruins everything :frown:

That they are using 15w speakers powered with 53w must be a pretty wide spread rumor, as in the logitech support forums its fairly common for people to write asking why it says 15w on the backs of the satelite's speakers, and if they should replace them with 15w or 53w speakers. Mine are totally void of any markings... however, shortly before mine burned out, they were leaking acrid smoke that made the entire room they were in unbreathable. They were playing loud, at roughly 75% volume.

The 560's were supposed to acheive 400watts sustained, the 5300s claim 280, less the 40 watts for the center channel (its more powerful than the rest).. and you're getting very close to half the claimed wattage from my original speakers. =\

Scolecite
They had me do the same, except it cost me 12$. I hate to sound cheap, but thats 12$ I had to spend because their product crapped out on me. You're lucky to have gotten another set of 560's.. I'm going to call again on monday, and demand to speak with a manager right away. The RMA support people are useless.

love2zen
If after calling on monday it still isn't resolved, I am going to lodge a complaint with the BBB, and I Will most definatly go to nolo. I tried a different free legal advice site, but they refused to even speak to me because I'm in canada. I fully intend on following through with this, if only to keep someone else from getting sucked into their bullshit. Thank you very much that link to nolo.com!

djfrog
Hewlett Packard will never see another red cent from me, or anyone I give computer advice to. Every single product I or friends have ever purchased from them has failed a few months after the warrenty ending.., including several printers, a digital camera, a scanner, and a desktop computer. I don't hesitate in saying that their products must be engineered to last only as long as they need to. The only upside to HP is that they don't try trickery to get you to shove off, they are honest and forward.

RuNE
I read countless reviews about the z560s.. and they time and again received nothing but praise. I never saw a review out of the over dozen I read that gave them less than 90%.. I thought it was a no-brainer.. too bad reviews don't evaluate burn-out rate.. something I'll keep in mind for the future. :P


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OfflineRuNE
bomberman

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Re: Big company fucking people over.. what can I do? [Re: Jared]
    #2335874 - 02/15/04 01:38 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)



Hehe.  Actualy, it was a joke, but there is some truth behind it.

Its usualy a good idea to stick with a company that specializes in their perticular field. ie: Logitech = mice, HP = printers, etc.

HP started with printers, and still to this day, they are of the upmost quality. Ive tried to go with other printers, and nothing compares in quality/durability.
Yet, HP computers suck. 

There are a few exeptions with this whole branding thing, but its usualy still a good idea to play it safe.  :sun:


--------------------
~Happy sailing~


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