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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857861 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
it's simple, comprehendable, and poetic, and easy story to tell


That is neither a moral or a lesson.  Dr. Seuss fits those criteria.  Try again.


it really doesnt matter, it's a book, a story, it's supposed to be used to teach basic morality and peace, it's not a mystical lifesaving object you should devote your life to dissecting and worrying about being judged and going to hell... heaven is on earth, live a peaceful happy existence while your here cuz this is the only time you get to be you :ganja:


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:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857867 -

Tchan909 said:
It only precludes the validity of the Christian God if you affirm the validity of the imperial co-optation of Christianity and its bastard fundamentalist descendants.


Looks like a classic true Scotsman fallacy to me.

Quote:
There is no moral lesson to learn from the seven-day account of creation; as I said many posts ago, it is a framing device used to tell the story that ensues.


Then its not a fable as you claimed, its simply wrong.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: misterogerz]
    #14857871 -

misterogerz said:
it really doesnt matter, it's a book, a story, it's supposed to be used to teach basic morality and peace, it's not a mystical lifesaving object you should devote your life to dissecting and worrying about being judged and going to hell... heaven is on earth, live a peaceful happy existence while your here cuz this is the only time you get to be you :ganja:


No its not.  It is billed as a mystical lifesaving object you should devote your life to dissecting and worrying about.  That is exactly what it is.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857886 -

No true fallacy here - I'm taking as a given that the imperial cult altered its terminology to conform to Christian doctrines, then leveraged its existing power to take control of the church as a whole (in the west, at least). Given the hugely popular rejection of the imperial cult embodied in Christian ideals, it had no choice.

I'm telling you man, critical thinking kicks ass. :zomgwtf:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857891 -

Tchan909 said:
I'm telling you man, critical thinking kicks ass.



I honestly dont think you would know, you tell yourself what you want to hear and call that critical thinking.  You think that calling a billion years a day is critical thinking, you think that there are 'true' chritians and 'bastardized' christians falling hook line and sinker into the true scottsman fallacy. 

I think you have a lot to learn about critical thinking.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857896 -

DieCommie said:
misterogerz said:
it really doesnt matter, it's a book, a story, it's supposed to be used to teach basic morality and peace, it's not a mystical lifesaving object you should devote your life to dissecting and worrying about being judged and going to hell... heaven is on earth, live a peaceful happy existence while your here cuz this is the only time you get to be you :ganja:


No its not.  It is billed as a mystical lifesaving object you should devote your life to dissecting and worrying about.  That is exactly what it is.


well the ignorant remain ignorant, and from experience they will never learn, and they live in a fantasy world, the bible is a book written by people, end of story :strokebeard2:
old-world science fiction


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:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857907 -

DieCommie said:
Tchan909 said:
I'm telling you man, critical thinking kicks ass.



I honestly dont think you would know, you tell yourself what you want to hear and call that critical thinking.  You think that calling a billion years a day is critical thinking, you think that there are 'true' chritians and 'bastardized' christians falling hook line and sinker into the true scottsman fallacy. 

I think you have a lot to learn about critical thinking.


You have failed to respond to my rebuttal against your evocation of the true scottsman fallacy.

Better luck next time.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857919 -

It wasnt a rebuttal, you just made the same assertion (and fallacy) again.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857927 -

The fallacy of reading the history books? Christianity was demonstrably co-opted by the Roman state, and this co-optation coincides with the adoption of chauvinist, jingoistic doctrines of "literalism" which even the surviving Roman Catholic Church can no longer support.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857937 -

Tchan909 said:
The fallacy of reading the history books? Christianity was demonstrably co-opted by the Roman state, and this co-optation coincides with the adoption of chauvinist, jingoistic doctrines of "literalism" which even the surviving Roman Catholic Church can no longer support.


No, you made the true scottsman fallacy.  All religions evolve and get co-opted, the earlier version is no more 'true' than the latter version.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance] * 1
    #14857941 -

:jesus2:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857948 -

DieCommie said:
Tchan909 said:
The fallacy of reading the history books? Christianity was demonstrably co-opted by the Roman state, and this co-optation coincides with the adoption of chauvinist, jingoistic doctrines of "literalism" which even the surviving Roman Catholic Church can no longer support.


No, you made the true scottsman fallacy.  All religions evolve and get co-opted, the earlier version is no more 'true' than the latter version.


All religions are systems of beliefs taken on faith. The latter version is a system of beliefs taken on the faith that everything your preacher tells you is true. Prior versions were far more subversive, as evidenced by the rediscovery of ancient manuscripts such as the Nag Hammadi library, as well as by a critical comparison with related religions (Judaism and Eastern Orthodoxy).

EDIT:

DieCommie said:
Quote:
There is no moral lesson to learn from the seven-day account of creation; as I said many posts ago, it is a framing device used to tell the story that ensues.


Then its not a fable as you claimed, its simply wrong.


No fucking shit the literal seven-day account of creation is wrong. I would never claim the world was invented in seven days. I am not the book of Genesis. Don't put words in my mouth.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (08/01/11 07:21 PM)

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14858546 -

Why was the bible rewritten so many times? Has the word of god changed? Why was the new testament put together by a roman ruler? Why did that roman ruler only pick prophets that gave jesus non-human qualities? Why are we more worried about what other people believe than making ourselves morally aware? If you believe in the bible than whats the point of arguing about your beliefs? Is your gods wishes that you convert non-believers? 

I would argue ones moral consciousness benefits more from reading thoreau, whitman, muir, emerson, keats, etc... and a handful of philosophers before reading a political document full of war and hypocritical ideologies.

If you believe in god and are morally aware, than, i assume you would treat a millionaire the same as you would a bum? A pregnant 16 year old the same as a old lady? A heroin addict and a school teacher?

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: vjp]
    #14858570 -

I don't "believe in" the Bible, but I think it's a very important cultural text that needs to be understood. Atheists, IME, are too quick to wave their hands at its role in the foundation of civilization as we know it. This gives power to people who would twist its meanings in order to steer us in undesirable directions.

I agree with you that a thousand times better systems of ethics have been conceived since the Bible, but a complete understanding of those systems must include an intimate familiarity with the Bible.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14858580 -

Quote:
Atheists, IME, are too quick to wave their hands at its role as one of the foundations of civilization as we know it.


A more appropriate interpretation is that atheists are quick to wash their hands of its role as the foundation of their civilization.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14858588 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
Atheists, IME, are too quick to wave their hands at its role as one of the foundations of civilization as we know it.


A more appropriate interpretation is that atheists are quick to wash their hands of its role as the foundation of their civilization.


Washing your hands will never relieve you of the shame of your legacy.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14858596 -

Tchan909 said:
Washing your hands will never relieve you of the shame of your legacy.


Im not the one with all the guilt.  Thats you buddy.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14858602 -

If you don't cover your shame, everyone else will see it. :smirk:


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14858604 -

Tchan909 said:
If you don't cover your shame, everyone else will see it. :smirk:


Do you know how to read?  I have no shame, I have no guilt.  :smirk:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14858611 -

You are only guiltless in your own eyes, and your shamelessness is a lie...

But in the eyes of your maker, you are an unrepentant sinner and you are damned for your shamelessness!

I honestly just get a kick out of the fire and brimstone. :rofldrunk:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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