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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: misterogerz]
    #14857502 -

"Tide goes in tide goes out. You can't explain that".


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Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go.
T. S. Eliot

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: love2shpongleIRL]
    #14857529 -

The Book of Genesis describes how God created a "vault" or empty space in what is presumably an eternal space of water; this is further reinforced when God "opens the windows of heaven" to flood the Earth.

People used to talk really differently, owing to their completely different ontology.  I stand by my original point, people who do not take this into consideration are fools. And those of you atheists who insist that the only "correct" interpretation of the Bible is the literal/fundamentalist one seriously need to stop and listen to what you're saying for a moment.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857561 -

A day is a day, if you think otherwise you are being fool.  Have you even read genesis?  It doesnt read as a metaphor at all - its a description of literal creation.  It doesnt matter what the bible said a thousand years ago, what matters is what it says now - and now its filled with literal descriptions that are decidedly false.

Its a back track and a retreat to turn what used to be literal descriptions into metaphorical stories.  And as metaphorical stories go, they are ultra lame.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857586 -

DieCommie said:
A day is a day, if you think otherwise you are being fool.  Have you even read genesis?


have you read the original texts, before they were ever translated into english, im talking like the rough draft?.......no? didnt think so :rolleyes: man absolutely has no ability to fictionalize these ideas? :strokebeard2:


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:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: misterogerz]
    #14857612 -

Quote:
have you read the original texts, before they were ever translated into english, im talking like the rough draft?.......no?



No, and it doesnt matter because modern christians do not follow ancient texts - they follow the modern bible.


If god messed up between the rough draft and the modern version then he isnt much of a god... Even a child knows that a day is not a billion years.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #14857630 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
have you read the original texts, before they were ever translated into english, im talking like the rough draft?.......no?



No, and it doesnt matter because modern christians do not follow ancient texts - they follow the modern bible.


If god messed up between the rough draft and the modern version then he isnt much of a god... Even a child knows that a day is not a billion years.



so basically you're saying only the persons who translated the modern bible knew what the people who wrote the original texts meant? because there are many differences, and plenty of 'gospels' that were left out and are acctually more accurate to jesus's live that the bullshit they put in the holy roman bible to herd the masses like sheep and brainwash people. the church tried to wipe out anything that was even close to what jesus was about, jesus was a shaman, and taught eastern religious traditions which is why he was crucified, and the church now opposes anything that really is 'christ-like', the church is a mockery of the man


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:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857638 -

DieCommie said:
A day is a day, if you think otherwise you are being fool.  Have you even read genesis?  It doesnt read as a metaphor at all - its a description of literal creation.  It doesnt matter what the bible said a thousand years ago, what matters is what it says now - and now its filled with literal descriptions that are decidedly false.

Its a back track and a retreat to turn what used to be literal descriptions into metaphorical stories.  And as metaphorical stories go, they are ultra lame.



Genesis uses language comprehensible to the people living in the time of its authorship to communicate higher ideas than the literal account of creation it describes. At the time of its authorship, there was no way to say the seven-day account of creation was wrong; it must have seemed quite sensible, and ultimately it's only a framing device for the story that ensues.

It's really obtuse to reject the entire Bible based on a rejection of the literal interpretation of a metaphor that made more sense to people who don't know the things you do.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857662 -



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(mik-kaw'-bur) n. one who is poor but lives in optimistic expectation of better fortune:nyan:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857683 -

Quote:
It's really obtuse to reject the entire Bible based on a rejection of the literal interpretation of a metaphor that made more sense to people who don't know the things you do.



Sounds like a perfect reason to reject the bible, or at least - reject christianity.


Quote:
At the time of its authorship, there was no way to say the seven-day account of creation was wrong;



Of course there was, god could have told the truth.  He could have said 'more days than you can count', or some bullshit like that.  But he didnt, so hes either a lair, a fool or is being misrepresented.  In any of those three cases there is more than enough reason to reject christianity as depicted by the bible.


If modern christians want to be taken seriously, they should fix their bible instead of just claiming everything that is ridiculous is a metaphor.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857702 -

DC, you honestly just sound disappointed that God isn't real.

If the Bible were "fixed" to conform to modern science, it would only look that much more ridiculous 100+ years in the future when modern science has been refuted by future science; and it would be yet another firestorm of liturgical controversy as various denominations of Judaism, Christianity, and perish the thought possibly even Islam compete to define whatever degree of scientific accuracy is appropriate for the Bible.

You might as well ask publishers of the works of Shakespeare to edit out all references to scientifically disproved ideas. Do you really think that would be appropriate?


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857736 -

Quote:
You might as well ask publishers of the works of Shakespeare to edit out all references to scientifically disproved ideas. Do you really think that would be appropriate?



No, because shakespeare is taken to be a work of fiction.  The bible is not, not by christians at least.  If shakespeare is taken to be a religious text inspired/written by god - then the scientific inaccuracies would be sufficient to rejecting that religion. 



Quote:
If the Bible were "fixed" to conform to modern science, it would only look that much more ridiculous 100+ years in the future when modern science has been refuted by future science; and it would be yet another firestorm of liturgical controversy as various denominations of Judaism, Christianity, and perish the thought possibly even Islam compete to define whatever degree of scientific accuracy is appropriate for the Bible.



So what?  Of course religions need to change to stay relevant.  The gaps that their god lives in are ever shrinking.


A day is a day.  Its not a metaphor, and it never has been.  Its an inaccuracy plain and simple.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857755 -

It becomes a metaphor when read with a critical or analytic eye; I suppose it may be foolish to expect that capacity from everybody.

I maintain that your problem is not with Christianity, it is with those branches of Christianity who have proven themselves incapable of comprehending metaphor and incapable of comprehending the metamorphosis of human ideas through time. You don't have a problem with religion, you have a problem with a far more generalized form of human ignorance. Don't play into the sectarians' hands by validating their mutated, sub-human point of view.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857780 -

Quote:
It becomes a metaphor when read with a critical or analytic eye; I suppose it may be foolish to expect that capacity from everybody.



Not as foolish as declaring those that dont agree with you are not critical or analytic. 


It only becomes a metaphor when you are intellectually dishonest with yourself and have a confirmation bias.  Otherwise, its a simple inaccurate myth written by an ignorant author.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857799 -

You can read it as a superstitious myth, or you can read it as a fable. I find the latter perspective to be far more useful.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857818 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
It becomes a metaphor when read with a critical or analytic eye; I suppose it may be foolish to expect that capacity from everybody.



Not as foolish as declaring those that dont agree with you are not critical or analytic. 


It only becomes a metaphor when you are intellectually dishonest with yourself and have a confirmation bias.  Otherwise, its a simple inaccurate myth written by an ignorant author.



metaphors are a part of history and life just as you cannot comprehend it

:zoidberg:


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:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14857820 -

Tchan909 said:
You can read it as a superstitious myth, or you can read it as a fable. I find the latter perspective to be far more useful.



But in either case it precludes the validity of the christian god.

What, please tell, is the moral or lesson you learn by calling billions of years a day?  Im starting to think you dont even know what a metaphor is...

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857828 -

DieCommie said:
Tchan909 said:
You can read it as a superstitious myth, or you can read it as a fable. I find the latter perspective to be far more useful.



But in either case it precludes the validity of the christian god.

What, please tell, is the moral or lesson you learn by calling billions of years a day?



it's simple, comprehendable, and poetic, and easy story to tell :shrug:


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:potleaf: :tendshroom: :potleaf:
:leaf::peyotespectrum::leaf:

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857833 -

DieCommie said:
Tchan909 said:
You can read it as a superstitious myth, or you can read it as a fable. I find the latter perspective to be far more useful.



But in either case it precludes the validity of the christian god.

What, please tell, is the moral or lesson you learn by calling billions of years a day?



It only precludes the validity of the Christian God if you affirm the validity of the imperial co-optation of Christianity and its bastard fundamentalist descendants.

There is no moral lesson to learn from the seven-day account of creation; as I said many posts ago, it is a framing device used to tell the story that ensues.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: misterogerz]
    #14857835 -

Quote:
it's simple, comprehendable, and poetic, and easy story to tell



That is neither a moral or a lesson.  Dr. Seuss fits those criteria.  Try again.

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Re: Proof of Christianity and why Atheists are wrong. [Re: DieCommie]
    #14857853 -

:awedance:


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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