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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1489203 -

"whos protecting my right to smoke marijuana?"

No one is; and so, this right is being taken away by someone.

"why? if power does not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?"

What do you mean by power not existing in a structured format?


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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1489483 -

What do you mean by power not existing in a structured format?

politicians, corporations, laws...etc

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1489607 -

In that case we can translate:

"why? if power does not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?"

to

"why? if politicians, corporations, and laws do not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?"

To steal something you desire, to kill someone you hate...

Just laws do not give people a reason TO impose our their upon other people. Rather, they seek to force people NOT to.

"Do not forcefully impose your will upon another person": This is a rule to be followed. Are there rules in anarchy?

One thing human social evolution can teach us is that where there is no law, power is quickly grabbed up by those in the best position and strongest motive to take it.

You will say that anarchy can only exist when people collectively agree that LIBERTY is to be respected and people are to be free to do as they please, so long as it does not harm another individual. Is this not a rule? a social policy? This agreement is not the foundation of anarchy, but of a rightous government.

What happens when someone does not respect liberty?

Liberty is an agreement amongst people; it is a social policy. It must be enforced, or it is taken away. This is demonstrated by tens of thousands of years of social evolution.

A rightous government exists only to protect LIBERTY. In anarchy, there is no one to defend liberty, and it quickly dissolves.

In a free society, are we not bound to respect liberty? Is this not a rule to be obeyed? How can there be liberty in a system where people are not bound to ANY rules?

About "corporations" being a part of the power structure: corporations are nothing more than a consensual pooling of resources betweeen people as an investment. They are not legally permitted to use force to impose their will upon anyone. You say there should be no corporations in anarchy? I should not be able to get together with ten of my peers and collectively start a business with them? How is this liberty? and who will enforce this anti-corporation law?

Similarly, who will enforce the rule against politicians and laws?

How can you not see the dilemma in the idea that there can be a system in which their is but one rule: no rules. ?

The notion is in itself a contradiction.

A good government is there to enforce and protect liberty, and never to take it away.

If you equate anarchy with liberty, then a good government is in place only to *preserve anarchy*.

When 'government' becomes synonymous with 'control', and itself is liberty-defeating, then it is not a government, but a tyranny.

Unfortunately, this has usually been the case. A few hundred years ago, some people set out to change that and create a rightous government founded on liberty. Unfortunately, they placed too much trust in democracy and as a result, it has gotten off track.

Edited by OOOO (04/24/03 04:27 PM)

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1490476 -

And you're still an anarchist, no?

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO]
    #1490715 -

"why? if politicians, corporations, and laws do not exist in a structured format, then what would be the reason to impose force on another?"

To steal something you desire, to kill someone you hate...

the desire of man is not to kill or steal, its to live in peace. strip man down to the pure individual, in a state where no other forces are acting on him, this would be the natural state of man, there is nothing to steal in this state, nothing to kill, he exists and that is enough. only in this purest state will man be truly free from the evils of this world, and this state can only be achieved when there is no acting forces on him, no structured society where he must struggle to live.

Just laws do not give people a reason TO impose our their upon other people. Rather, they seek to force people NOT to.

laws act against the individual, by limiting thought and action. "force" goes against all that is human and serves to corrupt the individual into believing he is not a pure being that can make his own concious decisions about whats right and wrong.

One thing human social evolution can teach us is that where there is no law, power is quickly grabbed up by those in the best position and strongest motive to take it.

there has never been a society where people have lived under no law, except that of the native americans... and let me quote Thayendanegea...
"in the goverment you call civilized, the happiness of the people is constantly sacrificed to the splendor of the empire. hence the origin of your codes of criminal and civil laws; hence your dengeons and prisons. we have no prisons; we have no pompous parade of courts; we have no written laws"

A rightous government exists only to protect LIBERTY. In anarchy, there is no one to defend liberty, and it quickly dissolves.

no, there is ONLY liberty and freedom in anarchy, nothing to take from somone and nothing to gain, the nature of man will shine through and the beauty of humanity can be seen.

A good government is there to enforce and protect liberty, and never to take it away.

a government is there to make laws day after day, there is no stopping it, it is its only purpose and it will continue until the end of time.... before long the straightjacket becomes so tight, that human nature is stifled and only the contempt, hate, and death will be seen, further propagating more reasons to regulate, the cycle will continue, always justifying itself, but never getting to the problem, that which is itself...

Unfortunately, this has usually been the case. A few hundred years ago, some people set out to change that and create a rightous government founded on liberty. Unfortunately, they placed too much trust in democracy and as a result, it has gotten off track.

i agree, but they placed to much trust in GOVERNMENT, and not enough in the individual.

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: ]
    #1490762 -

Anarchy would last somwhere between 5 minutes and half an hour. I've linked this thread to the political board. It's probably better to take this debate there.

Edited by OOOO (04/24/03 06:50 PM)

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: OOOO] * 1
    #1490821 -

Shiva is pretty tough.


--------------------
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We're the lowest of the low, the scum of the fucking earth!

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Scarfmeister]
    #1490830 -

anarchy discussion BEGONE!

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: Dogomush]
    #1491862 -

DIE ANARCHY DIE YOU DIRTY BASTARD!!!!!!!!


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1491966 -

ok, back to the most badass religous figure.

muhammad?

oh! I heard of him, yea, he could kick some ass! And i liked those little rymes he did too. But he did get his ass kicked once, by that big guy... what was his name? oh yea! Joe Frazier. but now he has michal J Fox desease, so anyone could probly beat him now.


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Re: which religious figure is the toughest? [Re: domite]
    #1491999 -

ha.


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.

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